I'm Going To Try This Despite the fact that I absolutely HATE the stupid categories assigned to the achievement badges. Does everything that frum Jews do HAVE to be infantile? What would be wrong with just colors? We are struggling with the same stuff that everyone else in the world is struggling with but we must at all costs keep up the narrative that we are better than everyone else. We are so addicted to the view that we are better than everyone else that we have to tell ourselves "if a non Jew stays sober for 7 weeks he just gets a little badge, but I'm better - I don't just get a badge, I'm an "Oheiv Hashem" and 90 days gets me onto "The Wall of Hashem's Honor" but the goy is still a goy so no matter that I'm doing exactly as he is I'm still better...

It is so annoying! I am a human being who has suffered my whole life. Yiddishhkeit and frumkeit did not protect me from that suffering. My suffering led me on a 40 year journey to the bottom of this pit. I need help, NOT frumkeit. Is frumkeit going to take responsibility for my recovery? No. I need to take that responsibility. So why do you have to shove yiddishkeit at me every step of the way!?

I appreciate the fact that this site allows us frum Jews to deal with our issues and the particular nuances that we have to deal with - like it NOT being OK to ever be open about our real issues because of our kids shidduchim and loss of standing amongst everyone else in this Loshon Hara obsessed society. A society where EVERYONE is pigeonholed into some sort of category that is usually based on some distorted idea of who is frummer than whom. (In our great and wondrous frum society of Ohavei Hashem we get accolades for the slightest effort if we have cancer - but for our type of struggle we get judged as lowlifes no matter how much effort we put in.)

So I for one would appreciate a space where I didn't have to feel like I was being put right back in a frum category, and one from 4th grade day camp to boot... If the categories help some people, great. For me - they turn my stomach and I wish there was an alternative to this site. Or at least a way to choose simple badges and categories. How about a simple Wall of Honor? This could then be interpreted by each of us in the way that we need to. But frum Jews rarely think about the idea that there could be multiple interpretations of something - (despite the fact that we study years of Gemara where there are multiple interpretations of everything) - it is so much easier to just accept the "one true way."

This site makes me feel like I am being proselytized twice. Once makes sense - that's what I'm here for. I am here to be proselytized by recovery - nothing else. My understanding is that in 12 Step programs people look forward with pride to their clean badges. I will NEVER be able to look forward to the badges you've got. It's like when they felt they HAD to rewrite the lyrics to Cat's In The Cradle. Whoever did that thought he was improving the song while he was dragging it through the mud.

If you feel as I do reach out - I need friends and support and am willing to offer friendship and support in return. But if you are one of those who thinks those badges are a good idea, and The Wall of Hashem's Honor is more inspiring than The Wall of Honor - please do not contact me and pretend you agree because some distorted sense of obligation makes you think you can help me. I have been betrayed enough for several lifetimes and it would be VERY unhealthy for me to deal with more fraud at this time...

There. I feel a little tiny bit better now. I needed to get that off my chest so that my anger about this didn't lead to night number 1 becoming 0...

This article is consistent with what I wrote above. Kudo's to "Yaakov" for speaking the truth! I wish I was ready to go to a live meeting. I also wish that I will never have to go...

Welcome sir,
Perhaps stick around a bit, and see what the people on this site have to say.
Our motto is: One Day at a Time...and that is without a badge at all.
When I went to an SA meetin' and they gave out coins for 30 days, or three months, there was one fellow there who was clean that day.
They gave him a 'one day' coin, and we clapped for him; we hugged him; we were so happy for him.
This group is pretty non-judgmental.
We don't care what the past was.
All of us have similar stories.
Some of our 'excuses' are better than the other guys.
We come with resentments, jealousy, anger, shame, yes a boatful of shame.
Our porn addiction was used as a solution to our problems, and like the old song goes, "it was used 'to soothe the soul'," and soothe it did.
our drug was so enjoyable.
Sh@#$! it still is so pleasurable!
We get to stay in our senses while we 'shoot up.'
We get to feel it.
Those who use drugs or booze (who are also welcome here) when they have their fix, they need to sleep it off; we get the pleasure to do it all over again.

So, while I don't share your same resentment of the world and frum jewry, I do share several things.
I was and am a porn addict; more to our language....I am addicted to lust, all types, and additionally, I don't use religion as the antidote; oh no! not me! I have been 'so called' religious my entire life, and it hasn't f!@##in' stopped me, and it won't now.
But my life was unmanageable the way it was.
I needed to get out of this sh!@# hole, and that's why I'm here.
that's why a lot of us are here.
Some use religion, and let 'em...we have a motto here: Whatever Works!
And we look forward for you to join our boat, and as a matter of fact, let me check the date when it is sailin' outta shore next....hmmmm let's see....it's your lucky day....we are sailin' today, for here there is a third motto (actually many of 'em): Today! Damn it! Today!

so hop aboard, and while you're comin' on, I will whisper to you this:

Keep us posted about your day.
Email us (mine is: thenewme613@hotmail.com (and there, when I swear, I don't put the thingys in the letters).
send a pm to someone you see on line.
We look forward to hearin' more from you.

Take care
Wishin' you well

and p.s. I have written many posts, but my 'welcome' posts are usually short.

b'hatzlachah

genigshoin wrote:


So if i think like you think i am deserving of your support (which by the way i am in very much of a need ) , otherwise i am not deserving of it ?

WELCOME! I'm not sure what you mean by achievment badges. I have never gotten one. Do you mean on the 90 day chart? I never used it. It is simply a method of motivation. If you like it, use it. If not, don't.

We are here because our lives are/were being ruined by lust and fantasy. We are here to help each other and give chizzuk to one another. To share what has worked and what has not worked for us. Oh, and also to just joke around sometimes.

If that is why you are here - welcome, we are glad to have you with us.

Keep posting and let us know about your struggles, what you have tried, what brings you here...

newaction: all I meant was that it makes more sense for people who are on the same page to support each other. Sorry if you took that as a judgement - i believe that one can have strong opinions without judging others. If things like I was ranting about work for you - more power to you - I just don't think we'd be a good match for each other in the context of this site - which is pretty specifically about recovery...

gibbor120: yes I was ranting about it the 90 day chart - it's a tool I like a LOT and I really want it to work for me - that's why the frump wit of it is upsetting - it adds a layer that makes me NOT want to acheive. I think adding fry kept layers to something like that - particularly when we are dealing with deep issues that for drum people are very likely wrapped up in frum issues it just doesn't make sense to add a potentially inflammatory layer to an otherwise excellent motivational tool.

cordnoy: thanks for the welcome - I appreciate your down to earth approach and your encouraging words.

Last night I was furious. Angry at myself for being weak. Angry at my parents for not being healthy. Angry at pretty much everything. So my 1st night post is just a reflection of that. And you know what? I don't think I would have attempted this 90 day "taanis" if I wasn't that angry.

Tonight I'm not angry. Just really really sad. I stayed up just as ridiculously late as usual but tonight I didn't do anything but watch 12 Step YouTube videos and cry. I tried at one point to watch some funny prank videos to change my mood. But they didn't make me laugh. They made me cry too. Apparently ANYTHING would make me cry. And that's probably what I've been avoiding for the past, oh 40 years or so, one way or another. The question is how do I really deal with all that pain I've been avoiding without being unhealthy? I'm in therapy. Again. This time it seems more real but I've also got a lot more negative habits to deal with...

Thanks for sharing that . Its hard when your parents are sick and besides all sort of things going on . Sorry to hear that you switched from anger to being sad. Its encouraging that therapy is somewhat helping. Its a tough question you asked on how to deal with so much pain , you got me thinking there , i am not sure.Are you married now ?

Welcome again,

'Down to earth' is the only way I know.
'Practical' is the only thin' I can do, for I am not a 'thinker,' like the others.
Therapy - I was there/am there/will be there.
People sick in the family as well.
B"H! though.

What's His plan?
No idea!
What's mine?
Today!

And Oh, did I have that feelin' yesterday? Just for a few seconds....it would feel so good. Banished that thought immediately!

b'hatzlachah

The categories in the 90 day chart were extremely helpful to me. It was the most appealing aspect of the chart. The feeling that you have is very common among people new to even the AA or SA approach to recovery. When I came to my first meeting and heard about G-d, I was not very enthusiastic. Religion never helped me with my addictions and here was AA/SA telling me that G-d was the answer. I thought that was ridiculous. However, being that I wanted recovery I just accepted it. I've come to accept a lot of things. Without surrender and acceptance, I cannot have recovery. And now, after 18 months in AA and four months in SA, I find myself with recovery and I am becoming closer to my religion.

Welcome and keep posting.

Hatzlacha!

It sounds to me like you've got much bigger worries than the wording on the 90 day chart. Let it go.

gibbor120: First of all I know. I let it go enough to sign up and use the chart. And I'm planning on sticking with it - with God's help ;-) Doesn't mean I need to be happy about every detail of it. I think the chart idea is great I just wish the frummies weren't running the show...

serenity: thanks for the response. I may be wrong but I don't think my reaction is because of the 12 steps approach at all. I have watched youtube videos about the first three steps from Priests that are less preachy and don't make me feel like I'm being treated like a child. So, no, it's not a problem with the 12 steps - it's a problem with folks who can't keep the derech eretz as kadmah laTorah and feel the need to shove it at people at every step of the way... The 12 Steps allow you the space to deal with your personal higher power. The chart forces you into a particular way of relating to God...

newaction: I wasn't clear - my parents not being healthy didn't mean physically sick. I meant emotionally unhealthy in the sense that they were unable to be there for me in the way that parents ought to. My issues in life can be directly traced to that. And if I were unsure about that all I have to do is spend some time with them and I can experience the criticism, the never being good enough, the never feeling understood, the feeling that they think I am flawed and bad etc... I can not recall once in my life hearing "I love you" from them - or even feeling that they feel that way... Yes, I am married. I married a woman who for the first 20 years of my marriage treated me pretty much exactly the way my parents did; I guess I was attracted to the comfort zone... Thankfully once I entered therapy the first time I started to make changes and things are better than they were. But with the upbringing I had I am heavily invested in feeling bad about myself - my acting out with pornography and worse seems to be one way that I made sure I actually WAS bad. Amazing how the way parents feel about their children has a way of coming true even though of course every child doesn't start out that way...

Tonight I'm not angry and not as sad. I went to some sites that I had registered with and deleted my accounts. Wasn't sure it was a smart thing to do but I was quick about it and did not give in to my dark side. I want to delete the email account that I was using to register for the sites but I need to make sure the cancellations go through and I don't get charged and if I delete the email address I'll never be able to check. I went through my emails and deleted all except those I need for that purpose - well almost all - there were a few that I couldn't bring myself to delete - I found myself really wanting to open them up and the only thing I had the strength to do at that point was log out and come back here to write this post. I'm getting off the computer NOW and going to sleep so I don't do anything stupid... I'll try not to log in to that email for a week or two - till i'm sure that the cancellations have gone through and then I'll check to see that they did and cancel the account. Amazing that though I did 95% of what I set out to do with cancelling etc I still feel like a complete failure for not going through with deleting those last few emails - which are harmless compared to many of the emails I DID delete... Is it just me beating myself up or does leaving those emails mean I'm setting myself up for a bigger failure down the road - and so I SHOULD feel bad?

Focus on your success, not your failure. I'm glad I have a sponsor and chaverim, because I wouldn't do anything like that without asking my sponsor and I'd probably give him or a chaver all the info to make the deletions.

Hatzlacha!

serenity: I hear you. But at this point I can not imagine sharing that kind of info with ANYONE except my therapist. Does that mean I am not being humble enough? Not surrendering enough? Maybe. But maybe it means that I am willing to fight this... Maybe I'm willing to take my natural stubbornness and unwillingness to just go along with the herd and use that towards taking personal responsibility for my life...? I'm reading the literature, trying to work the steps, and seeing a great therapist. I'm determined to turn my life around. I'm not foolish enough to think it's going to be easy - but what value will it have if it's not ME who actually faces the difficult situations? Isn't that just putting off the inevitable?

This morning I was reading a perfectly innocuous article about Neturei Karta (not that there's anything innocuous about Neturei Karta) when without consciously thinking about it I ended up following a link to an article about "whatever" - and a few minutes later realized I was on my way to breaking my 4 day streak. It took me about 10 minutes of inner dialogue to stop myself. Unless I want to go into a cave somewhere - this type of thing is going to keep happening.

Let's face it, unless you restrict yourself to exclusively reading frum papers and articles - BOTH online and offline - the temptations are always going to be there. Guess what? Non-frum people also struggle with these issues and I do not believe that they are advised to restrict their contact with the world to frum reaindg only... I'm not buying into the stupidity that we frum people are somehow any different than non-frum jews or non-jews who struggle with these issues. That's not a 12 Step concept - it hasn't been researched and is entirely an invention of the same system that failed us by not addressing these issues in the first place.

Did anyone ever speak to YOU about sex? Did anyone ever explain to you WHY porn and masturbation is bad for US? Did anyone even tell you these things were assur? I'm pretty sure most of us had to figure these things out on our own - really great chinuch system when something that some people say you can't do teshuva for isn't even taught - you just have to find out at some point that the thing you've been doing for a couple of years is assur and you're going to burn for it...

There I go getting angry again... Sorry... I'm just so angry at a system that really let me down and would treat me like garbage if what i've done became known. A system that would be a part of doing this to me and then blame me is really f'd up imho...

And while I'm on the topic and in ranting mode again. You know what else I hate? I hate the way Twersky and Feldheim in the intro video to this site both say "the ONLY tool we have to fight this is GYE." I call BS. GYE is the only tool we have after people have really messed up. What about preventives? What about overhauling a ridiculously antiquated chinuch system that does NOT address these issues at all. What about teaching people how to be parents - how to nurture and love their kids and how to talk about these issues with their kids so that they (both parents and kids) won't have to figure these things out on their own?

I'm going to take a cold shower before Shabbos and try to stop thinking about this - and try to use my anger to control my disease... Gut Shabbos