So I get into another bipolar episode and wham I'm neck deep in it again. Just crazy all the sh** I tell myself. "I guess I had to go at it again to realize I'm really always at risk." I never really fully bought that I was addicted. Some sort of superiority thing. All you guys, maybe, but not me. I just needed a little help to stop. And then I didn't need any help after a while, so I stopped being involved with GYE. I still had my program buddies I'd check in with. And I was clean for a pretty long time, and I'd keep my eyes in their place and had no slips. And best of all, I didn't think about it any more and my relationship with "H kept getting more intimate. My relationships with my kids was/is about as perfect as any father could ask for. My ex- and I made deep amends, and very candidly shared how much we have never stopped loving the other, in the deepest sense. Nothing selfish, no wanting anything, no intentions. Just the simple stuff that's left between two people who remember what they once touched. Lots of tears. Parnassah enough. Health good enough. It's been almost 8 years since the arrest. Payed my dues, finished probation. Just cruisen' right along.

So I was cured, right?

And then it starts. Such a tiny thing. One quick look. You're only human. Blah blah blah. I actually knew what was happening. I could fast forward into the pit. As soon as I opened the first website and didn't close it, I knew I was treading on old ground. AND I DIDN'T CARE. I felt no guilt, no shame, no conflict with the double-life stuff. And soon I couldn't wait to get to it. It was G-d's gift to me, my well earned reward, I was entitled to it. And then I couldn't stop, and then I couldn't deny that I couldn't stop.

I asked for, and was sent the handbook. It sat on my table for weeks. A couple weeks ago I picked it up out of boredom and sheer laziness, not wanting to walk to the bookshelf and find something interesting to read. So I may as well take a look at the thing. Yeah, yeah, I know all this stuff. Probably, all tolled, I've read it two or three times by now. But none of it's relevant, because I don't want to stop. It's the wanting that's missing. I'm not even willing to be made to be willing. I don't get that zerah "l is such a big deal. Doesn't the Baal ha Tanya say something about being forgiven with a sincere bedtime Shmah? Now I know I'm gone, there's nobody left but the faker. I thought I left this self behind years ago, and here I was again, hiding, pretending, out of touch, nothing spontaneous any more. I'm lost.

I don't want to stop for any mussar-type reasons. You think I haven't read them? Rashi, Rambam, Ramban, Talmud, Zohar and all the chazal? Cherem, Olam Habah, Death. Doesn't mean squat to me. No remorse. If I'm cut off, I'm cut off. If I deserve to die, I'll die. All I know for certain is that I DON'T WANT TO QUIT. PERIOD. It has nothing to do with my relationship with "H, either. I used to freak out if I got lost in some work or play and didn't daven Mincha. Now I was skipping it on purpose. And sometimes Shacharis, too, truth be told. I'd still talk with "H, personal-like, hisbodedut and all. So why aren't I cut off already? Or am I really just talking to myself? I "knew" he was putting me through something. Must be a nisayon (test).

But now I can't wait around any more to find out what that something is. So why stop now? There is only one reason. My children. They're all grown, and they each know who they are. There's not a phony hair on their respective heads. They are soul-deep genuine, sincere people. Comfortable in their own skins. Easy to laugh and love. I once read somewhere the saying that our children grow up despite us, not because of us. Surely this is true of my children. They had good mothers, B"H. The reason I want to stop is because I can't bear keeping secrets, lying to my children. They all know about my sex addiction, the pain it's caused me and those I love/loved. And occasionally it comes up in conversation about "how far I've come". All this, and now I'm lying again. I can't do that to them. I cannot trick my own children. For me, this is the greatest sin--to trick an innocent.

I don't really know if there truly is t'shuvah for what I've done. It sure seemed like there was for a long time. I learned on GYE that there really was t'shuvah for this. "H forgave me and gave me a new life. A one-eighty. Now I've gone and pissed on it all, and with all that, I am unrepentant. Tachanun is a bunch of words. I want only not to lie to my children.

That will have to do. It got me back here didn't it? That will have to be good enough for now.

Wow!
thanks for the share.
I like readin' up on the oldies, and you were one of 'em.
Think you checked in a few times since then as well.
you have certainly went thru a lot, and it is tough stuff.
Doin' it for your children is a noble cause; perhaps it'll do it.
I think you might have to get yourself mixed in there some place.
In any event, you know the drill here.
We'd love for you to stick around on the recovery journey.

b'hatzlachah

Hi Joel welcome back!! Sorry to hear that you're having a rough time again. But you've taken the first step by coming back here and connecting again. Hashem will never give up on you and neither will we. Stick around and KOMT!!

Thank you for your post. As you said, you are back here. Do you really not want to quit?

I just checked to make sure: Principle 19 of the GYE program has a statement that you don't lose past gains after a fall.

Your comments about being an "addict" got me thinking. I quit "cold turkey" without GYE for over a year. Then I slipped back and for the past May through mid-December, I stayed clean for 2 days, then for 6 days, then for 1 day...you get the picture. Finally I decided to stop banging my head against the wall and joined GYE.

One thing that had me blubbering in front of the computer screen was Principle 8 for the addiction, about overhauling character traits. When I think of how much work I have to do, I don't care anymore about whether I'm an addict or not. Full of anger and resentment, telling big and small lies, etc. -- this matters. "Addict"? "Not an addict"? Doesn't even enter my radar screen anymore.

I'm not even at the level of a kid in cheder as far as Yiddishkeit goes, but I do remember a comment somewhere about "Modeh Ani"...It's not that you have faith in HaShem, it's that HaShem has faith in you. That's why the loan of life has been extended.

Best of luck in your continued success.

From the fact that you're here, it indicates that deep down you do want to stop this addiction. The problem may be that you feel how good the release is when you act out, which is part of the chemical component of the addiction. Hatzlacha raba! I don't think it's a matter of not wanting to stop, but rather a fear of giving up a part of you.

Hey guys. Thanks for the love.

Cordnoy, "I think you might have to get yourself mixed in there some place.". For sure. Thanks. Right now, about the best I can do is perk my ears up when I get to asking for yiras and ahavas, awe and love of "H so that I can leyn and do the mitzvos with an eye towards doing them wholeheartedly. He's going to have to open my lips for me so I can daven. but I'm really glad you pointed that out.

Hey Gevurah, thanks for the shout. What is the "M" for in komt? "Hashem will never give up on you". This is my experience, too. But let's not forget that Reb/Rav Durdaya died in his moment of T'shuvah. I cannot do T'shuvah in the hopes of being relieved of the consequences of my sins. Perhaps they are among those for which there is no t'shuvah without death, and so the very act of my t'shuvah may be signing up for a kittel (burial shroud). Even at the price of death, can I still genuinely, without reservation pour out my grief for how I've betrayed Him? Wanting nothing in return, not even purity, or peace, or dvekus or even life itself? Or is this the stuff of the Tzaddik Gamur, or even Beinonim, and perhaps just my grandiosity in some new permutation to think that t'shuvah needs to be so dramatic. Maybe just a little selfish t'shuvah is more like what I'm possibly capable of, and the consequences will be what they'll be.

Hi Shakeitoff. Great moniker. "I'm not even at the level of a kid in cheder as far as Yiddishkeit goes". I take your word for it. But many of the bochrim I know think they know a lot, even to act humble about how much they know, how fast they can daven, wrap tephillin, etc. You, on the other hand, know you know very little, which in my book is to know a lot. In any case, I really appreciated your describing what your recovery was like over the May to December head banging. Obviously, I can totally relate. Yeah, addict, nisht an addict. It's the work that matters. I understand. I'm just too full of myself right now to have a broken heart. I ask "H to do what needs to be done, without too much pain.

Shomer bro. Thanks bro. "I don't think it's a matter of not wanting to stop, but rather a fear of giving up a part of you". Yup. It's both a fear and a refusal to give up the part of me that longs for the comforting and stimulation and gazing into each others eyes that only lovers, mothers and children and porn addicts get to have. For me it's been a myth that I can have that with "H. And even should a lover and I "find" each other (Bz'H), that only lasts a few months usually, and then it's back to the grind of cultivating unselfishness. It's about being willing to give up hoping for the train to come that I missed long time ago. Childhood's over, and I'm not ready to let that hope go, evidently. In fact, I refuse to let that part of myself go. (And it must not be confused with the N'shamah that longs for bittul. That's a whole other side.)

Now for Today's News:

"Interestingly", a lot of what you guys talked about I was thinking about today before Shacharis. What I came to so far, is that everything must have its place. The house needs to be in order. But that doesn't mean that I try to lop off some part of my self cuz there's no room for it in such a pure goof as mine. What it means is that none of it is bad, at least kaballistically, as I understand it (and lay it on me if I've got this wrong, please). It just needs to have its place and not be running the whole house, and the neighbor's house, and their neighbor's house, too, for that matter.

The second piece of news for today came from Kapitul 66 (samech vav). אֲשַׁלֵּם לְךָ נְדָרָי אֲשֶׁר פָּצוּ שְׂפָתָי וְדִבֶּר פִּי בַּצַּר. "I will pay to You my vows, which my lips uttered and my mouth spoke in my distress". WHHAAAATTT??? What did that say??!! Read that again, Joel.

Sheesh! I forgot. I plumb forgot the whole reason for doing t'shuvah in the first place! I've said in this thread over and over how important the word "remember" is in recovery. What did I forget you ask. I forgot that couple days I spent in jail how I davened that if He'd get me out of this, I'd give my life to Him. He did. And for a long long time I kept my word. Adding one mitzvah after another. And then it all started slipping, and I completely completely forgot my neder (vow) until today, reading that Psalm. It's like I never was in jail, never made a bargain, a promise, a vow. I forgot that I made a promise, and that I all of a sudden just stopped keeping it. For me that's really heavy. Total denial. Amazing. Surely there's a yh! And then He puts it right in my face. Not in an uptight way, mind you. Just kind of slipped it in there for me to see and glance over, or to feel the two-by-four upside my head.

so at the end of Today's News day, I now have two reasons to quit. Being true with my kids, and keeping my word with "H. Two, and G-d willing, still counting.

You're right. There's no point in getting all melodramatic with "the perfect teshuva that will completely cleans me at the price of my life". It's just more unattainable fantasy. Better just the right thing right now, for now. Do what you are supposed to and leave the outcome to Him.

And the thing with that Possuk, that reminded you. See, Hashem hasn't forgotten you. He sends you a message, and the ability to see and recognize it. And it can keep happening. You take a little step towards Him, and He takes a giant leap towards you.

Oh, and it's for "Monstuh", of course!

Hi,

Welcome back! I'm sorry to hear that you are having a hard time.

I don't know what day of the count it is. Doesn't really matter. Today I got so triggered. Went to GYE. It made a difference. At this moment I am calmer, and going to get something to eat. I think I'll look up the Muhhamed Ali Floyd Patterson fight and watch that. Talk about being shameless. Shamesachnisht! Better a fist fight than porn. At this moment in this day I am clean. G-d willing I will make it to bed and fall asleep clean. There's still two hours to go. Tick Tock. One tick at a time. Good night Chevrah. I'm glad you're out there.

That's true, people are out there, supporting each other. It's remarkable, to me at least. It's not quite 3 a.m. where I am, and folks are online.

Just in the last couple of days, I've listened to lectures by Rabbi Shais Taub, links on screen #2 of Duvid Chaim's Guest Speakers, under Shiurim, under the Kosher Isle.... One was on Step 4. The other was on the program generally. My understanding of some of his message: Work the Steps...and steps 1 through 8 have been done by some people in a single day...Step 9 takes longer because it involves finding the people to make amends to...and Steps 10 through 12 are lifetime maintenance. I find that encouraging. No reason to spend years working Steps 1 through 9.

Anyway, best of luck to everyone.

Intellectually, you might understand those steps in one hour, but they cannot be worked in such a time-span.
The steps are meant to be life-changin'; will that happen in 55 minutes?

b'hatzlachah

I take the steps very seriously. I do not count. It's been at least a couple decades. But I don't go to meetings. I continue to work steps with program buddies. Yet I fell. But because of the steps I have no secrets from my children or rav, I've made significant amends, and continue to work fourth steps on and off.

Yet I fell.

And I almost fell yesterday. So in this crazed state of mind I'm going minute by minute, because that's how the rushes come. Trigger trigger trigger. I have only hanging on to "H, and asking over and over to help me because the "I don't want to stop" feelings are so strong, and every moment I'm siding with the yh, I'm asking for help, and doing the things I know will distract me, comfort me the loss of my lust quencher, keep me trying, against all temptations to stay close and keep asking for help. Rush after rush, one at a time, all day long. Emphasis on the "long". Even going to bed early to be done with it. So I dream the very stuff I'm struggling with during the day. Bz"H, in the dream I stopped. Maybe I do want to stop. It certainly doesn't feel that way. So I go back to that I don't want any secrets from my children, and that I made a promise to "H that I'd give my life to Him.

This stinks. I want my porn. And yet I pray not to be given it. Talk about conflict. Gotta go daven. Talk to yuz later.

I totally hear you on the internal conflict. But you're doing great! KOMT!!

Thanks for the reality check. I was repeating what I heard Rabbi Taub say and maybe I got it wrong, and even if that's what he said, that may not apply to most people...that some people had been able to take a single day, not an hour, to go through the first 8 steps. To my ears, the big take away was to work the 8 Steps, make amends as possible, and spend the rest of our lives on #10-12.

Just listing on paper what I have done, for Step #1, feels like going to the dentist when I know I have a mouthful of cavities. But I guess we're supposed to be specific, not just keep telling ourselves that our lives are out of control.

Thanks again to everybody.

1daat wrote:


Time to watch another fight?
Serenity, we should make a boxin' thread (although mma is more my style).
Joel, what's fightin'?