TalmidChaim wrote:


I'm no expert, but let me comment on 2 thin's.

1. I don't think the 12-step guys want addicts to think anyway, and certainly forever. If one realizes he is an addict, he will know that he is different, and perhaps, it will be forever...that is up to him.

2. This one is important, and I'm not certain i am right...will know more as I grow in the program. Givin' ourselves up to Hashem will not teach us how to cope with the condition. If one gives himself up to Hashem completely, he will remove his defects. One who has complete faith/trust in Hashem has no anger, frustration, stress, resentment, etc. for life is good. As we were readin' the big book last night, my chavrusah/mentor said that he is not copin' with his issues now, for when he is in the proper zone, he has no issues. And that is how one can lead a normal life.

I point out this second thin', for people think that there is a magic cure for this disease, and that is God. That is not true. While God can do anythin', He doesn't. It is you, my friend, who holds the reigns. Put your faith and trust in Him, so that you won't be angry, frustrated, stressed, etc. and then the need to act out won't be there. As Dov said on the call the other day.....(I wrote it elsewhere).

b'hatzlachah

cordnoy wrote:


I'm gonna definitely defer to you on this one, Cordnoy And gladly, I might add. It's a very uplifting take on this, and if you're writing it, well-founded and supported by experience!

I think what you are referring to is surrender. Much of our stress comes from trying to do things "my way". That leads to frustration. Which leads to an urge to act out. Surrender means, I "let" Hashem run the show. He is in charge. He knows what's best for me. He loves me more that any person can (even my mother ). If I keep those thigs in mind and "surrender" my "right" to "expect" things, I will not be angry, frustrated etc.. So, "giving it up to Hashem" is the way to react more appropriately.

Make sense?

I have been really busy this last week but I just wanted to say thanks to all of you for explaining this to me. I have been thinking about it a lot, trying to understand it. I don't yet, but I am working on it. I am trying to learn more about the 12-step program but it seems like a lot of weirdness to me and I really just want to be normal.. (I am sorry if that offends anyone, it is probably coming from my ignorance..)

As an aside, I have also realized that 2 big triggers for me are when:
1) I feel like I made a fool of myself
2) I feel like I am being deprived of something

Those working the 12 steps say you do not need to understand it. In fact, it may prevent you from getting better. You just need to follow the stemps simply.

I don't know how I can do that, thinking is a big part of who I am, I don't know if I can do something that seems like hokum to me without at least understanding what I am trying to do. Am I the only one that feels like this? It seems like everyone here believes in this, someone has got to understand it, no? And, if I try to understand it, "it may prevent you from getting better"?? What does that even mean?? I have to be like some dumb robot doing something that doesn't make sense? I don't beleive that I am that different that I need to act brain-dead...

And I am really sorry if I offend anyone, that is really not my intent.

I am not trying to be offensive or anything I am really just frustrated and want to understand better (if that is allowed;) )! Anyone's input is greatly appreciated!! After all, if I can't ask you guys, who can I ask!

TIA!

I can't explain it. I can just relate what I've heard from people who have done it. Many report that as long as they were trying to understand it, they could not get better. Only when they gave in, and just decided to do what they were told did they start to recover. Take it or leave it. I'm just relating an observation from those who are in recovery.

wants2succeed wrote:


What is it exactly that you're tryin' to understand?

I am trying to understand what I am doing exactly and why I am doing (i.e. how it is going to be helping). I am sure this isn't important to everyone but it is to me...

wants2succeed wrote:


i am assumin' you are referrin' to the 12 steps, so I'll explain a little bit - the little that i know.

By the way, are you doin' it with a sponsor?

The first three steps are the introduction.
1. I admit that I am a lustaholic and my life is unmanageable (and I am powerless). [If not, then take control of your life.]
2. I believe that there is probably no human alive that can relieve me of this (for if there is, go to him/her).
3. I believe that God could help me and would help me if He was sought.

Now that I know this, I can begin the steps of makin' my life more about God and less about me. many of us addicts realize that this entire addiction is based upon "self." Self-gratification, self-seekin', self-confidence, pride, resentment, fear, shame, etc. The closer we are to God; the more we realize that He is the Director, and we need to play a part and give our life to Him, the more we will realize that this addiction is not necessary, and perhaps, even when it is, we can surrender the desire to Him, in the same way we surrender the rest of our life to him.

I might be off here and there, and perhaps a lot, but that's a startin' point.

What you say?