I really am not supposed to be here... I was the guy who could smoke one cigarette a day -- and did for years. I went to the gym and stayed fit. I ran a marathon.

Moderation and self-control was how I thought of myself.

That regular time spent with the magazines (I date myself, don't I) was nothing really, just a harmless diversion.

Oh, I guess there was that one time years later when I ran up a $75 phone bill while on a business trip, but I explained it away.

And then cameras came onto the Internet and I found myself hooked.

I've done the 12 Step SA program. For nearly 2 years I went every week since here in Israel there aren't daily meetings. And I can't tell you how many times I acted out when I got home...

So here I am again, only this time I am more scared that I am sinking into that state SA called rock bottom.

I've reconnected with my old sponsor in SA to manage my filter. But as the notes here point out the filter doesn't keep you out if you're dedicated to getting in, but it gives you a fence.

I happened to download "Thanks for Sharing" and "Shame" and saw myself in both of them.

I am happy to be here as a part of this forum and I look forward to changing and serving HaShem in my new life where one day at a time I stay free from my addiction to Internet porn.

Wow!

welcome!

I'm not supposed to be here either, but God had other plans for me.

Oh, don't worry...I sure did help Him out in this one.

Bottom line is...I'm here, and a message especially for me nowadays is I need to be here.

you sound like you know the drill a bit; that's good.

Welcome again

your road to recovery should be blessed with hatzlachah.

Welcome!!!

It's great that you're trying something else, I hope that it will be thee right step for you!!

Do you know why the SA meetings didn't help? Did you work the steps/program?

See ya around!!!

There were a couple of things that I found hard with SA: one was that there was never an end to meetings, there seemed to be a cadre of experts who were the SA lifers and I always felt that roots of the literature was based on Christianity.

If it works for others, then kol hakavod.

I like that this site is based on and for yiddin. Its too bad we're all here, but as a life coach once said to me (he was a recovering alcoholic), spiritual seekers are outsized represented in the addict world..

There's so much on this site, thanks to all, so it makes it hard for me to point to the link, but I had read and printed out an essay I found "How I cured my sex addiction with cognitive therapy." It really struck a cord with me.

I'm no expert, just a 61 year old guy struggling to change for the better.

Thank you for that.
As an SA goer myself now (albeit not regularly anymore), I can relate to your mindset.

Can you give us some perspective on the years in your life please?
When did lust become an issue?
For how long?
When did you begin attending SA?
For how long were you in recovery mode?
What happened recently to bring you back here?

Thank you and hatzlachah

WELCOME!!!!!!! Its great to have you!

Check out: Skep's tips

Wow, what an introduction. I enjoyed 'thanks for sharing' a lot. Why oh why do they have to out just one triggering scene in it?! Oh well.

I laughed when I read your problems with SA. I am an SA member and I have had the exact same problems. I am now trying to integrate yiddishkeit with the program and b"H I feel a lot better. I believe it can be done, in fact should be done by most of us.

A lot of my fellow SA members don't like it. There's a lot to be said about the difference of opinion but I haven't got time. Put it this way, I don't kneel on the floor, I touch a mezuza instead. I try and do a step 11 regularly with a minyan. I daven for sobriety during tefillos. I speak about Hashem as my Higher Power. I try to do steps 3 and 6 by keeping halocho as best I can and learning gemoro.

I agree with all those who say that no amount of learning and davening helped me stay sober before, but I think there's a difference between my learning and davening before SA and after SA. Why that is I'm not quite sure, but I think that my addiction has highlighted to me that I really need Hashem in my life. The program is all about connecting with G-d, which is exactly what yiddishkeit is, I just didn't notice that for the first 25 years. I don't think yiddishkeit can be used as a substitute for the program for those that need it, but once a guy's working the program properly I think they are inseparable.

Stick around. Keep posting and reading.

Hatzlocho.

@ Dr. Watson,

I tell you that triggering scene and the sense of desperation he felt, knowing he didn't want to go down that road was probably what drove me back to get help...

I had a life coach, a very prominent one at that, who has built his career based on his having become clean and sober for alcohol and drugs. He once said to me that I had an easier addiction to deal with because mine won't kill me.

I told him he had it all wrong... our addiction walks up to us on the street, his he's got to pony up to the bar and order or meet someone to buy his downers.

I was a student of Rav Noach Weinberg Z"L and he used to say "The Al-Mighty has a good sense of humor." Can you imagine the power we achieve for being able to win against this addiction in today's world?

I was in FL visiting with my family. When I got back to Israel I said to my Rav that everyone, including my sister, is dressing like whores. He said, "Whore is the in look these days."

So here we are triggers everywhere and we've got two choices to succumb or succeed.

@ Cordnoy

I am 61, have struggled with lust issues for at least 45 years, but never realized what they were all about (duh). I was a part of the 70's with the free love revolution and used to brag that I lost count of how many partners I had.

I went to my first SA meeting probably 8 years ago and went pretty regularly for 2 years.

I got to 21 days pretty regularly. But as they say, we can't drink like gentlemen, so that never really worked.

I am here, Thank G-d, after downloading "Thanks for Sharing" and "Shame" and realizing that those characters are me.

Bezrat wrote:


Dr.Watson wrote:



Thank you very much Eli (aka Bezrat) for Bringing up the subject of Yidiskeit Vs.-or doesn't- SA. And thank you very much Dr.Watson for your comments and advice on the subject.
I am not a member of SA meetings, I never was, but I did, and to some extent still do struggle with this issue.
When I was first introduced to GYE, even before I joined, and this was one of the "excuses" I used for not joining, I had that feeling, that the program used on GYE is "too secular" for me.
A short time after I joined GYE, I had the zechus of speaking on the phone with the great and famous DOV, [may Hashem bring him back home to GYE soon!!], and he mentioned the [much discussed] idea of "Separating addiction and recovery, from Yidishkeit". [I later found out that this was one of his "pet - holy wars" in this field].
He said things like "forget about Milchemes Hayetzer!, concentrate on addiction!" or "It's not about aveira and teshuva, it's about addiction and recovery!".
At first I was very angry with this idea, screaming at him about how "we can't ignore the concepts of the Torah and yidishkeit , or the words of the Mesilas yeshorim etc. just because some "Goyish sex expert" doesn't care for them!".
But as he continued [with his unbelievable patience, combined with his "tough love" method] to explain it to me, [I was on the phone with him for over 2 hours! after angrily hanging up on him twice in the middle!], and after being on GYE for a while, and learning to use "self honesty thinking" I finally understood the idea, which led to a long thread of posting on the forum on this subject, and trying to help others, both on the forum and privately, deal with this issue.

I think that there are 2 separate parts of this issue which we must deal with.

One is the understanding of the addiction itself, and what that understanding requires in terms of recovery. for this we must use a combination of "chochmo bagoyim taamin", without losing track of what the Torah and Yidishkeit has to say about it. This must be done with the awareness that we must be careful not to fall back into thinking that we are dealing with an issue of total "religious nature" ie. aveiros, teshuva, etc. Even the use of the term "taivos" may mislead us us if used totally in the "religious" context of the word. We must be careful when we discuss the "methods of the Yetzer Hora", which surely do have a place in our struggle against addiction, as with any other challenge in life, that we don't get "stuck" in a total religious mindset, and ignore the Addiction/illness aspect of our struggle.
Of course the Torah gives us guidence in dealing with even the most physical/mundane situations, but we must know how to differentiate between the things which are completely of religious nature, and those which are of other nature.
Te second part is that which Dr. Watson expounded on, and that is keeping in mind the observance of our obligations as Yidden WHILE we are going through the recovery steps.
This can relate to, as Dr. Watson suggested, relying on Hashem as the "Higher power", Davening to Hashem for help, and of course observing and not transgressing any Halachic obligation, in the process.
This must also include making sure that any ideas, concepts, methods and/or axioms, which are assumed, advised, or suggested by the "chachmei umos haolam" experts, or other, are not in contradiction with True Torah ideology, and/or obligations.
I thank you both again, Bezrat, and Dr. W. for your posts, which helped bring [at least to me] more clarity on this very important subject.

May we all be zoche to true siyata dishmaya in finding the right path, with the right full amount of "yidishkeit" and the right amount of "Chochma" needed for our full and complete recovery.

Wow thanks for Skep's tips.

I was thinking how in Kashering something we say how it went in is how we take it out... if it went in by flame, then we apply flame to take it out.

Well, my yetzer has always been the Internet Chat rooms... I am happy to be here. Thank you all for having chatted me and sent messages.

Accordingly, perhaps we can all go to some Eskimo club, where I can have "libun chamur" done.

Just saying that for me being able to chat has been so far curative. The proof is in the pudding and we won't know until some time in the future, but I am sure with friends like you here if I show up I'll be held to accountable.

I don't hear a lot about meditation in the forum and thought I'd bring up the topic here.

Aside from William Glasser, MD called meditation a Positive Addiction, our own tradition is steeped in the practice of meditation.

Aryeh Kaplan Z"L wrote three books on Jewish Meditation. I live down the road from the kevar of R"Sh"b"Y" who spent years sitting in a cave. Aside from eating carobs he was a serious meditator during those years.

I've been an on again off again meditator until I found a meditation partner. We meet for an hour once a week and hold each other accountable for how many times, how long and what our experience had been for the previous week.

For over two years I've been using a method taught by a D.C., Joe Dispenza, which is based on a healing meditation formula. Healing meditations identify a negative emotion in our current personality that is causing us to be someone we don't want to be -- and where this personality is causing us to be ill.

For years I've identified my negative emotion as my sense of not being good enough or feeling like there's just not enough.

Three days ago after signing up here, downloading and having a marathon session reading GYE literature and reading posts here I was struck that I've never been willing to admit to myself this negative emotion I carry is called LUST.

I mean LUST doesn't feel negative to me. It gives me a nice tingly very pleasurable feeling, right? But as the literature, particularly "The First Day of the Rest of Your Life" points out, sex within love is pleasurable. LUST is not pleasurable. LUST always leads to pain.

I will update the results of my meditation and would welcome any feedback.

Eli

So I nearly fell last night and I am so filled with enthusiasm for the importance and value of sexual sobriety and gye... I need to create a quick shortcut like Yosef had where he quickly saw his father's face. I will work on it.

I was saddened to see one of my Haredi brothers here tell me as a Modern Orthodox man I am on the wrong path. And while, unfortunately many Modern Orthos's skip the important mitzvah of learning Torah regularly, I suspect that the same can be said of many Haredim.

Let me tell you a true story: I was in B'nai Berak one Friday morning. I've always maintained my guf through regular exercise. I have just always felt bad when my abs stick out when I bend down to tie my shoes. And for me, when I run, although I am not fast at 61 anymore I am transported to when I was 8 years old running in my neighborhood. It is a healthy feeling that I am grateful for.

As I was walking, an old man, who might not have been that old, but looked old to me, asked me if I could help. I said OK, not knowing what he wanted.

As it turned out he and his wife lived on the 3rd floor of a building with no elevator. His wife was confined to a wheelchair and probably was 90-100 Kilos and he needed help with the mitapelet to get her down the stairs.

As I was helping him, he noticed I had an American style brown suede kippah that is the same color as my hair. At the bottom of the stairs he asked me if I was Jewish. Yes, I said. Then he asked me if I keep Shabbat. Yes I said. And Kashrut and Tohara Mishpacha too.

I realized there at that moment that in the Haredi lifestyle he had no idea that there were other Jews in the world who are Shomer Mitzvot.

So please let's have a little civility here. The Haredi brother was complaining about the Haredi lifestyle and I suggested he could change if it was really bothering him.

One of my chavrutas has smicha and is a psychotherapist. His practice is largely Haredi and he tells me the level of child abuse and dysfunctional families in the Haredi community is shocking.

So please, don't tell me I am on the wrong path. We have the ability to chose to change -- this is the Bracha that is the basis of our faith Free Will.

Eli

I am a modern orthodox guy who has been here for 2 years. There is certainly a dissonance in some of our worldview, but we all are here with the same goal and all believe in the same G-d. I have never had anything but respectful discourse here. I hope that you find the same thing as well.