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Home of Gibbor120
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TOPIC: Home of Gibbor120 105459 Views

Re: Home of Gibbor120 13 May 2015 21:16 #254629

  • gibbor120
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People often come to GYE and say "I know that all these bad things are happening to me because of my aveiros". I "accidentally" came across this Meiri when looking for something else. It discusses this exact mindset.

The Gemara in Rosh Hashana on Daf 34b says that people used to look at the red dyed wool on Yom Kippur. If it turned white, the people would be happy. If it did not, they would be sad.

Rav Yochanan ben Zakai made a takanah that it should be put inside the doorway to the ulam, but people were still able to peek and see, so he made a takanah that half be placed on a rock and half between the horns of the seir.

The meiri explains. I will post his exact loshon and then translate:

לעולם יהא בטחונו של אדם בשם יתברך, ולא יהא לבו סמוך על דבר אחר שיתיאש בסימנו מן הטובה או מן הרעה. וכל שחכמי הדור רואים בני דורם נכשלים בכך, ראוי להם להשתדל להוציאם מכלל טאות זה. והוא שאמרו לשון של זהורית...י


A person should always put his trust in Hashem, and his heart should not rely on anything else, that he should give up receiving good or bad because of a sign. And anytime the chachomim of the generation see people stumbling in this (mistake) it is fitting for them to try to correct this error. And that is what the gemara refers to when talking about the red dyed wool...

In the time of the Beis Hamikdash, we are told that a person should not be happy or sad because of the wool turning white or not turning white. There, it was clearly a sign that we were not forgiven and we have aveiros.

How much more so in our time with our personal simanim. We should not get depressed because we think Hashem is punishing us.

This is a powerful mekor, especially for those that feel Hashem is punishing them. That is not for us to worry about.

Re: Home of Gibbor120 14 May 2015 01:49 #254641

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Hi Gibbor, I just stopped by to L'Chaim and eat some hot Bobka! And of course to say Hi!
Much Hatzlacha!

My Threads:
Glad to be here
Don't slip it hurts
Lions & Tigers & Internet, Oh My!

--"ולא המדרש עיקר, אלא המעשה"
--"To promise not to do a thing is the surest way in the world to make a body want to go and do that very thing." Mark Twain
--"If, when you honestly want to, you find you cannot quit entirely, or if when drinking (or lusting), you have little control over the amount you take, you are probably alcoholic (or sexaholic)." AA Big Book P. 45. Parenthesis added.
--You hit rock bottom when you decide to stop digging.

Re: Home of Gibbor120 14 May 2015 04:32 #254658

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I love the vort. Finally, something litvaks can appreciate! (Or is it "lutvaks?")
FAQ's (Great for newcomers!!!)
Handbook | Skep's Tips
My threads:
www.guardyoureyes.com/forum/19-Introduce-Yourself/236327-Bigmoish-tries-to-be-good
www.guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/236329-Bigmoishs-path-to-tahara

"Expectation is the mother of frustration" - gibbor120
"Today, damn it! Today!" - cordnoy
"Desiring is not a sin at all, but just a sign that you are not dead yet" - Dov
"We are our own worst observer" - eslaasos's therapist
WDHW!!!
Last Edit: 14 May 2015 04:33 by Bigmoish.

Re: Home of Gibbor120 14 May 2015 11:42 #254672

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We shouldn't worry, or we shouldn't get depressed, or we shouldn't make the connection?

If God is punishin' us, we should look away?

From a litvak
My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads:
GYE Handbook | Gibbor's Insights | GYE FAQ - Thanks Skep and DMS123456789 White Book | Big Book (Alcoholics Anonymous)

If one gives up at the first sign of a struggle, he is really not ready to be successful."
"Tryin' and doin' are two different thin's - tryin' is hopin'; doin' is succeedin'.
"The right thin' to do and the hard thin' to do are usually the same."


Disclaimer: I am not a cheerleader; B"H, there are many on the site. I am here to change myself, and with God's help, by some mistake, I might even help change others.

MY POSTS ARE NOT WRITTEN AS A MODERATOR UNLESS EXPLICITLY STATED.

Re: Home of Gibbor120 14 May 2015 13:31 #254677

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באתי רק לעורר, I'm just quoting the meiri which is why I wrote the quote verbatim. Feel free to debate exactly what it means. I think at the very least he is saying. A person should not expect bad to happen to him because of a bad siman (or good because of a good siman).

Certainly he should do teshuva etc. My take was that a person shouldn't think I'm bad, so I will get punished. Or I'm a tzaddik, so I will have it good (not usually our problem).

Hashem sometimes gives good to evil people and vice versa. We should do what we are supposed to do, and have bitachon that Hashem will do whatever is good for us.

Re: Home of Gibbor120 14 May 2015 15:13 #254685

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if litvaks get hot bobka, sign me up please!
Sometimes life is like tuna with not enough mayonaise
~Inna beshem ZS

Give, Forgive
~Cordnoy

The reason I'm acting as if I'm pregnant, is because I'm expecting. I should be accepting.
~TZ

Re: Home of Gibbor120 14 May 2015 17:37 #254703

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ZemirosShabbos wrote:
if litvaks get hot bobka, sign me up please!


Send me your address....oh, i already have it!
My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads:
GYE Handbook | Gibbor's Insights | GYE FAQ - Thanks Skep and DMS123456789 White Book | Big Book (Alcoholics Anonymous)

If one gives up at the first sign of a struggle, he is really not ready to be successful."
"Tryin' and doin' are two different thin's - tryin' is hopin'; doin' is succeedin'.
"The right thin' to do and the hard thin' to do are usually the same."


Disclaimer: I am not a cheerleader; B"H, there are many on the site. I am here to change myself, and with God's help, by some mistake, I might even help change others.

MY POSTS ARE NOT WRITTEN AS A MODERATOR UNLESS EXPLICITLY STATED.

Re: Home of Gibbor120 14 May 2015 17:38 #254704

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gibbor120 wrote:
באתי רק לעורר, I'm just quoting the meiri which is why I wrote the quote verbatim. Feel free to debate exactly what it means. I think at the very least he is saying. A person should not expect bad to happen to him because of a bad siman (or good because of a good siman).

Certainly he should do teshuva etc. My take was that a person shouldn't think I'm bad, so I will get punished. Or I'm a tzaddik, so I will have it good (not usually our problem).

Hashem sometimes gives good to evil people and vice versa. We should do what we are supposed to do, and have bitachon that Hashem will do whatever is good for us.


i dont know what the meiri said, but your english seemed to be sayin' several different things.
My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads:
GYE Handbook | Gibbor's Insights | GYE FAQ - Thanks Skep and DMS123456789 White Book | Big Book (Alcoholics Anonymous)

If one gives up at the first sign of a struggle, he is really not ready to be successful."
"Tryin' and doin' are two different thin's - tryin' is hopin'; doin' is succeedin'.
"The right thin' to do and the hard thin' to do are usually the same."


Disclaimer: I am not a cheerleader; B"H, there are many on the site. I am here to change myself, and with God's help, by some mistake, I might even help change others.

MY POSTS ARE NOT WRITTEN AS A MODERATOR UNLESS EXPLICITLY STATED.

Re: Home of Gibbor120 14 May 2015 18:54 #254711

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Meiri wrote:
לעולם יהא בטחונו של אדם בשם יתברך, ולא יהא לבו סמוך על דבר אחר שיתיאש בסימנו מן הטובה או מן הרעה. וכל שחכמי הדור רואים בני דורם נכשלים בכך, ראוי להם להשתדל להוציאם מכלל טאות זה. והוא שאמרו לשון של זהורית...י
Last Edit: 14 May 2015 18:54 by gibbor120.

Re: Home of Gibbor120 14 May 2015 19:23 #254715

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I think the key word is "yi'ush." that is what the Gemora and the Meiri are pointin' out as a bad thin'.
Regardin' the realization, or the possibility that we are bein' punished for our sins....isn't that one of the main points of punishment?
My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads:
GYE Handbook | Gibbor's Insights | GYE FAQ - Thanks Skep and DMS123456789 White Book | Big Book (Alcoholics Anonymous)

If one gives up at the first sign of a struggle, he is really not ready to be successful."
"Tryin' and doin' are two different thin's - tryin' is hopin'; doin' is succeedin'.
"The right thin' to do and the hard thin' to do are usually the same."


Disclaimer: I am not a cheerleader; B"H, there are many on the site. I am here to change myself, and with God's help, by some mistake, I might even help change others.

MY POSTS ARE NOT WRITTEN AS A MODERATOR UNLESS EXPLICITLY STATED.

Re: Home of Gibbor120 14 May 2015 21:15 #254751

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He talks about yiyush from good or bad (happening). He seems to stress bitachon, and not relying on simanim to predict if good or bad will happen. Almost like "tamim tihyeh..." Don't look to sorcerers for "signs".

He doesn't seem to be talking about being meyayesh from doing teshuva (although that is not good either).

Definitely needs iyun. It's not as simple as I first thought. But it is thought provoking, and good food for thought.

Re: Home of Gibbor120 18 May 2015 16:21 #254971

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In any case, we don't really know what is good or bad. Things that may seem bad to us may really be good, and things that seem good to us may really be bad. This is seen all the time in every person's life. Therefore, we shouldn't concern ourselves with, "Oh no, such-and-such happened, Hashem must not be happy with me because I did X." We need to do what we need to do, and leave the accounting to Hashem.

Re: Home of Gibbor120 19 May 2015 04:16 #255012

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This is somethin' that i have argued in the past.
There are absolutes in life.
There are certain things are bad and there are certain things that are good.
Yes, there is an ultimate good and ultimate bad, but there is also a good and bad in this world.
We are supposed to take things to heart.
Should we be worried, concerned, nervous, etc.?
Usually not.
My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads:
GYE Handbook | Gibbor's Insights | GYE FAQ - Thanks Skep and DMS123456789 White Book | Big Book (Alcoholics Anonymous)

If one gives up at the first sign of a struggle, he is really not ready to be successful."
"Tryin' and doin' are two different thin's - tryin' is hopin'; doin' is succeedin'.
"The right thin' to do and the hard thin' to do are usually the same."


Disclaimer: I am not a cheerleader; B"H, there are many on the site. I am here to change myself, and with God's help, by some mistake, I might even help change others.

MY POSTS ARE NOT WRITTEN AS A MODERATOR UNLESS EXPLICITLY STATED.

Re: Home of Gibbor120 19 May 2015 16:18 #255047

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That's the difference between the approaches of Nochum Ish Gamzu and his student Rabbi Akiva.

Nochum Ish Gam Zu saw everything, even the seemingly bad, as THIS is good.

Rabbi Akiva would say, Everything that happens is FOR the good. This thing may not be good, it could be unpleasant, but ultimately, it will be for the good.

In the story of R' Yehoshua ben Levi who accompanied Eliyahu Hanavi, one can see how perceived blessings can actually be curses, and perceived curses can actually be blessings.

Re: Home of Gibbor120 19 May 2015 16:40 #255049

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Umm... Nochum Ish Gamzu said "Gam Zu LETovah" and Rabbi Akiva said "Kol Mah Deovid Rachmona LEtav Ovid". Isn't that really the same thing? He didn't say "Gam Zu Tovah".

Do you have a source for a Machlokes on this point?
!אנא עבדא דקודשא בריך הוא

וּבְיָדְךָ כֹּחַ וּגְבוּרָה וּבְיָדְךָ לְגַדֵּל וּלְחַזֵּק לַכֹּל

And every day that you want to waste, that you want to waste, you can
And every day that you want to wake up, that you want to wake, you can
And every day that you want to change, that you want to change, yeah
I'll help you see it through...





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