Welcome, Guest

Lessons Learned
(0 viewing) 
This is a board for all the important threads that we don't want to get lost among the others :-)

TOPIC: Lessons Learned 30368 Views

Re: Lessons Learned 19 Jul 2023 13:59 #398976

  • richtig
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 516
  • Karma: 25
bright wrote on 19 Jul 2023 05:15:

starting wrote on 15 Feb 2022 06:05:

Hashem Help Me wrote on 08 Feb 2022 12:31:
Just wanted to share a concept which will possibly benefit the oilam:

The pornography industry has successfully promulgated the notion that sex is a sin. Along with that is a feeling that the "private parts" of a man or woman are "bad". To prove it, they point to the fact that society covers those areas.

Our response:

When one walks into a shul, one knows that there is a Sefer Torah there. However it is usually not visible. It is used on occassions of krias haTorah. Sometimes we see it by special tefillos like Avinu Malkeinu and the like, and of course we dance with it on Simchas Torah. Isn't it interesting that our most holy item is enveloped in secrecy? What are we hiding? What is "bad" about it? Of course even a little child would answer that this is a ridiculous way to think. We put the Sefer Torah in an Aron Kodesh behind a Paroches because it is so holy, so important, so delicate, and so needed. We are protecting it. It is not to be handled by anybody and everybody. Lehavdil, we do the same with expensive jewelry. Items are placed in velvet cases and stored out of sight.

There is one eiver in the body that is called "kodesh", and that is the bris kodesh. It is physically and spiritually delicate vulnerable and sensitive. It is very holy and very special. It needs to be protected. It b'ezras hashem is to be used for a great purpose. At the right time it will place some zera in the rechem of a yiddishe mama, and a child will be nurtured in that holy place, where a malach teaches that neshama Torah while in a protected safe and nurturing environment.  The "event" involved in placing that zera is a holy one - involving 3 partners/shutfim - the father, the mother , and yes, Hakadosh Baruch Hu. Shechina shru'ya bei'neihem. This action has been done by the biggest tzaddikim in all the generations. it is not a sin, nor an action that needs to be embarassed of. The Zohar HaKadosh refers to tremendous yichudim that take place...

The body parts involved in this process are not dirty, bad, or things to be ashamed of. (Yes, Adam and Chava had busha from their nakedness after eating from the eitz ha'daas - that was due to their comprehension that these body parts can be used by the yetzer hara too...) If any term could be used to explain this to children, or even how we adults should properly view them and be comfortable with ourselves, maybe it could be said that this area of the body is muktzah machmas chisaron kis - off limits due to it's immense value.

Comments? 

Very nice post and if it's true, beautiful concept. However, there is definitely a concept of ervah in the torah, that one may not learn or make a brocho in front of nakedness. And ervah is a very derogatory term, as in for example tumahs mitzrayim is also called ervas mitzrayim 

This is a good question but not a proof. If a man is together with his wife and is mekayim the great mitzva of pru urvu he still must go to the mikvah to eat truma (or to learn according to takanas ezra). Doesn't mean its bad.

Ah this is a geshmake topic! It may be worth pointing out that klal yisroel could not be with their their wives in the days leading up to matan torah, and moshe rabeinu seems to have had to be poiresh from his wife at least from that point on, for the rest of his life, to be on the madreiga of nevua which was meyuchad for him. Of course, these are exceptions, but that is the point- we are not on the level to live like that, but that seems to be much higher madreigos. Not that sex is bad, but it also is not necessarily "clean"; hence, the requirement for tevila for truma or learning (especially if you learn on a level of k'nesinasa).. 
"It is not our abilities that show who we truly are, it is our choices.” ---- Albus Dumbeldore (as per Chris Columbus)

Re: Lessons Learned 19 Jul 2023 14:04 #398979

  • chaimoigen
  • Current streak: 511 days
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 1248
  • Karma: 133
Hashem Help Me wrote on 19 Jul 2023 04:55:
The following post was originally placed on a balei batim (married guys only) thread named Gardener of Grodno. It was requested to be made available for everyone, so with a few adaptations here it is:



Part One - A guy reaches out for help with masturbation. In my understanding, a fellow who puts shame and embarrassment on the side because he wants to break free is to be complimented and built up. He should feel that his bruchim habaim welcome was sincere and will encourage him to stay in touch. This fellow definitely deserves honorable titles. He is walking upstream against the tsunami of filth that the decadent society around us produces. One of the great American roshei yeshiva, from the main talmidim of Rav Aharon Kotler zatzal, told me that despite his rarely going out on the street (his yeshiva was very close to his house), "the toxic air of the street comes into his sforim shtub." (exact quote). So if even such a yid felt affected, what do we want from our youth? The triggers to fantasize and masturbate are simply all over the place. So if a guy says NO! I want out of this matzav, he is to placed on a pedestal. And again, not only does our new chaver want to be clean, he is even willing to speak to strangers about a very embarrassing behavior. Does Hashem have nachas from his courageous post/phone call/meeting? Does anyone think not?



Step one in dealing with such a fellow is to make him aware of the facts. In many cases we are dealing with a guy in the yeshiva system - be it american, yeshivish, chassidish, chabad, modern orthodox, sephardic. Therefore i will stick to this scenario, but obviously if the facts are different, the conversation can be adjusted accordingly. He needs to be reminded that he is a good guy who davens, learns, says krias shma, does kibud av v'eim, shmiras halashon, Shabbos, kashrus, gemilas chessed, lulav, sukkah, matzah, shatnez, tzitzis, tefillin, etc. etc. None of that is erased because he has a masturbation struggle.



In addition, most people i have spoken with, upon being questioned if anyone at any point openly discussed the issur of hotza'as zera l'vatala answered that no, nobody ever really explained that there is a siman in Shulchan Aruch about this. If anything they heard about this geshmake feeling of release from a friend and experimented... Although they felt "dirty" and sort of knew something was wrong, the whole thing was very blurry. By the time they came to a level of maturity and da'as and clarity about the issur, they were hooked, and definitely not willing to speak about it. At that point anxiety, depression, desperation, and immeasurable guilt set in - ironically being the trigger to masturbate even more. For the record, most boys seem to also have not been told that they may wake up wet - lack of that preparation can cause a bochur to freak out, and then start "experimenting"..



So looking at the picture objectively, we have a guy with a filled out "chart in shomayim" of mitzvos, with the exception of an aveira that began basically b'onais, and continues compulsively (also b'onais) as a bad habit (or in some cases as addiction).



Nowadays, in many cases, pornography is also part of the equation. Boys are often exposed at very tender ages. Let's speak that through as well. A child growing up in our society is BH being raised in a safe and basically predictable matzav. The adults in his life usually are good people. Parents, rebbis, teachers, custodians, the mailman, police officers, grocery store owners are all part of a pleasant picture perfect world. All these adults give off a message to become a mentch, a ben Torah, a baal midos, to be tznius, etc. Evil? That's in Russia, Iran - far away..  And then this child (and for this context i would include up to age 16 as a child) is exposed to hardcore pornography - sights and sounds that he can't wrap his hands around. He is not witnessing love scenes (and that would be bad enough). He is seeing grotesque evil looking behaviors with adults paid to smile as they engage in these unloving erotic and very not tznius activities. He is confused and traumatized by what he has seen. Subconsciously he starts to wonder "Is this what my parents do? Does my shul rabbi do this? My rebbi?" Well guess what - being that there has been no opening of the lines of communication with those individuals, the boy is not going to ask them about what he saw - letting his imagination create bedroom scenes about those very adults who constantly preach to him about midos tovos, tznius, modesty, kedusha, etc. And as we know regarding trauma, one returns to the abuser for more doses of that abuse - in this case they return to pornography. So their inexorable pull to shmutz comes from two opposite directions - 1. Trauma, and 2. To cause a really geshmak ejaculation. A strange shidduch.....The fact is the level of bechira this bochur has at this moment is quite low.



If one takes the time to patiently explain this to a bochur, and answer his questions, you will actually witness the return of some degree of menuchas hanefesh to this fellow. "You really mean i am not a rasha? Hashem doesn't hate me? I am allowed to daven? There is hope for me? It is not as much my fault as i have been thinking?" In addition it is very important to share that this is a very common issue. To some degree or another there are many wonderful guys struggling. Do not deny the fact that there are BH guys that never started masturbating. And there is no need to claim any specific percentage of how many guys are acting out - whatever it is, it's a lot of guys - good normal guys - with choshuve last names as well. Similarly, we are not giving the green light to continue masturbating; we are just giving perspective. The goal is to help him stop - the way to get there is to put him at ease with the truth.



Part Two - Once the guy is a bit calmer, it is time to clarify some facts. Most important fact - There is no room for yi'ush - one can b'ezras Hashem get better. The belief that one must ejaculate is false. Much has been written about this and debated on the forums - too much to write out comprehensively right now. The fact is there are single guys who BH stopped completely and are clean for hundreds of days. Some of them have been a great source of chizuk for beginners by making themselves available to speak. Others have simply graduated, moved on, and put the whole thing behind them. There are also guys who so far have been unable to stop completely, but have minimized the frequency tremendously. Loads of guys have gone from being "masturbators" - meaning masturbation was part of their daily ritual or their sole "go to" to deal with stress, boredom, loneliness, rejection, and now they are "clean" - they have learned healthy ways to pacify themselves, yet for whatever reason they still masturbate on rare occasions, maybe once every few months. They have also learned that a fall does not have to become a disaster. In the past a fall after a few days clean meant acting out with a vengeance numerous times to "get every last drop out". Now it means getting up after the initial fall, reaching out for chizuk, and moving on after one masturbation episode. And that is also called getting better! imagine coming to Yom Kippur and telling Hashem "Last year i masturbated hundreds of times - i am not even sure how much; but this year i only masturbated six or maybe seven times". 



I have found that a reward system - a small monetary prize for staying clean - tailor made for the guy's needs is very beneficial. Together with a daily or almost daily accountability phone call/text, the success rate is BH very high. Sometimes such a system is necessary for a few months. Besides the goal setting, the ability to be in contact with a mentor is invaluable. Advice, a shoulder to cry on, chizuk, a bop on the head, whatever is necessary is available. It should be set up in a non obsessive way - a bochur should be living his own life - be it yeshiva, working, vacation, or whatever - he doesn't need you as his new spouse, and he shouldn't be focusing on this so much. His daily feeling of self worth should be coming from the "meat and potatoes" of his day - his learning - his job - his general shmiras hamitzvos, not hyper-focused on this issue. At the same time let him feel comfortable when an urge hits to reach out and have you help him bust it. Just do not become codependent. 



As far as how to help bust urges, GYE provides many great strategies. I have my own but they are not so conventional, and therefore will not appear on this post.



Obviously for all of this to work, access to pornography must be cut off completely. With rare exception, one cannot stop masturbating while still viewing arousing material. And besides, pornography is assur and highly toxic in and of itself.  Filters, kosher phones, contracts regarding device usage must all be put in place for all the above to work. A healthy conversation about what sexuality is and is not, what real sex and intimacy look like as opposed to what is seen on the screen, as well as detailing what happens when rach"l a wife catches a husband watching pornography are all major motivators to seriously kasher one's viewing habits. I find that when a guy hears that as far as a woman is concerned - watching pornography is basically the same as having sex with a prostitute, they start to realize the pain and trauma they will cause a future spouse. And guys really are good. They want to be good, they want to be close to Hashem, they want to do mitzvos and not do aveiros. They have been blinded by the pornography industry, along with feeling unable to live without the constant arousal and thrill. When you turn on the light of truth and they start to understand how hurt their wife will be, it is a game changer.



This is a summary of what we can share with a bochur who is struggling. I think the original question was "What can we expect from him?" The answer - nothing - just help him develop his own answer. It will be much better than where he is now. And he is great for trying.

This masterpiece is pure Chinnuch, deep understanding, true Ahavas Yisroel.
Most of all - it can help us to help others.
I wish I had talked to someone who understood all this a long time ago. Maybe there's someone out there I know, today, who should not have to wait any longer. Can be in a big way or a small way. But we each can make a bigger difference than we sometimes know. 
Please feel free to reach out anytime at chaim.oigen@gmail.com
Last Edit: 19 Jul 2023 14:09 by chaimoigen.

Re: Lessons Learned 19 Jul 2023 14:36 #398983

  • richtig
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 516
  • Karma: 25
chaimoigen wrote on 19 Jul 2023 14:04:

Hashem Help Me wrote on 19 Jul 2023 04:55:
The following post was originally placed on a balei batim (married guys only) thread named Gardener of Grodno. It was requested to be made available for everyone, so with a few adaptations here it is:



Part One - A guy reaches out for help with masturbation. In my understanding, a fellow who puts shame and embarrassment on the side because he wants to break free is to be complimented and built up. He should feel that his bruchim habaim welcome was sincere and will encourage him to stay in touch. This fellow definitely deserves honorable titles. He is walking upstream against the tsunami of filth that the decadent society around us produces. One of the great American roshei yeshiva, from the main talmidim of Rav Aharon Kotler zatzal, told me that despite his rarely going out on the street (his yeshiva was very close to his house), "the toxic air of the street comes into his sforim shtub." (exact quote). So if even such a yid felt affected, what do we want from our youth? The triggers to fantasize and masturbate are simply all over the place. So if a guy says NO! I want out of this matzav, he is to placed on a pedestal. And again, not only does our new chaver want to be clean, he is even willing to speak to strangers about a very embarrassing behavior. Does Hashem have nachas from his courageous post/phone call/meeting? Does anyone think not?



Step one in dealing with such a fellow is to make him aware of the facts. In many cases we are dealing with a guy in the yeshiva system - be it american, yeshivish, chassidish, chabad, modern orthodox, sephardic. Therefore i will stick to this scenario, but obviously if the facts are different, the conversation can be adjusted accordingly. He needs to be reminded that he is a good guy who davens, learns, says krias shma, does kibud av v'eim, shmiras halashon, Shabbos, kashrus, gemilas chessed, lulav, sukkah, matzah, shatnez, tzitzis, tefillin, etc. etc. None of that is erased because he has a masturbation struggle.



In addition, most people i have spoken with, upon being questioned if anyone at any point openly discussed the issur of hotza'as zera l'vatala answered that no, nobody ever really explained that there is a siman in Shulchan Aruch about this. If anything they heard about this geshmake feeling of release from a friend and experimented... Although they felt "dirty" and sort of knew something was wrong, the whole thing was very blurry. By the time they came to a level of maturity and da'as and clarity about the issur, they were hooked, and definitely not willing to speak about it. At that point anxiety, depression, desperation, and immeasurable guilt set in - ironically being the trigger to masturbate even more. For the record, most boys seem to also have not been told that they may wake up wet - lack of that preparation can cause a bochur to freak out, and then start "experimenting"..



So looking at the picture objectively, we have a guy with a filled out "chart in shomayim" of mitzvos, with the exception of an aveira that began basically b'onais, and continues compulsively (also b'onais) as a bad habit (or in some cases as addiction).



Nowadays, in many cases, pornography is also part of the equation. Boys are often exposed at very tender ages. Let's speak that through as well. A child growing up in our society is BH being raised in a safe and basically predictable matzav. The adults in his life usually are good people. Parents, rebbis, teachers, custodians, the mailman, police officers, grocery store owners are all part of a pleasant picture perfect world. All these adults give off a message to become a mentch, a ben Torah, a baal midos, to be tznius, etc. Evil? That's in Russia, Iran - far away..  And then this child (and for this context i would include up to age 16 as a child) is exposed to hardcore pornography - sights and sounds that he can't wrap his hands around. He is not witnessing love scenes (and that would be bad enough). He is seeing grotesque evil looking behaviors with adults paid to smile as they engage in these unloving erotic and very not tznius activities. He is confused and traumatized by what he has seen. Subconsciously he starts to wonder "Is this what my parents do? Does my shul rabbi do this? My rebbi?" Well guess what - being that there has been no opening of the lines of communication with those individuals, the boy is not going to ask them about what he saw - letting his imagination create bedroom scenes about those very adults who constantly preach to him about midos tovos, tznius, modesty, kedusha, etc. And as we know regarding trauma, one returns to the abuser for more doses of that abuse - in this case they return to pornography. So their inexorable pull to shmutz comes from two opposite directions - 1. Trauma, and 2. To cause a really geshmak ejaculation. A strange shidduch.....The fact is the level of bechira this bochur has at this moment is quite low.



If one takes the time to patiently explain this to a bochur, and answer his questions, you will actually witness the return of some degree of menuchas hanefesh to this fellow. "You really mean i am not a rasha? Hashem doesn't hate me? I am allowed to daven? There is hope for me? It is not as much my fault as i have been thinking?" In addition it is very important to share that this is a very common issue. To some degree or another there are many wonderful guys struggling. Do not deny the fact that there are BH guys that never started masturbating. And there is no need to claim any specific percentage of how many guys are acting out - whatever it is, it's a lot of guys - good normal guys - with choshuve last names as well. Similarly, we are not giving the green light to continue masturbating; we are just giving perspective. The goal is to help him stop - the way to get there is to put him at ease with the truth.



Part Two - Once the guy is a bit calmer, it is time to clarify some facts. Most important fact - There is no room for yi'ush - one can b'ezras Hashem get better. The belief that one must ejaculate is false. Much has been written about this and debated on the forums - too much to write out comprehensively right now. The fact is there are single guys who BH stopped completely and are clean for hundreds of days. Some of them have been a great source of chizuk for beginners by making themselves available to speak. Others have simply graduated, moved on, and put the whole thing behind them. There are also guys who so far have been unable to stop completely, but have minimized the frequency tremendously. Loads of guys have gone from being "masturbators" - meaning masturbation was part of their daily ritual or their sole "go to" to deal with stress, boredom, loneliness, rejection, and now they are "clean" - they have learned healthy ways to pacify themselves, yet for whatever reason they still masturbate on rare occasions, maybe once every few months. They have also learned that a fall does not have to become a disaster. In the past a fall after a few days clean meant acting out with a vengeance numerous times to "get every last drop out". Now it means getting up after the initial fall, reaching out for chizuk, and moving on after one masturbation episode. And that is also called getting better! imagine coming to Yom Kippur and telling Hashem "Last year i masturbated hundreds of times - i am not even sure how much; but this year i only masturbated six or maybe seven times". 



I have found that a reward system - a small monetary prize for staying clean - tailor made for the guy's needs is very beneficial. Together with a daily or almost daily accountability phone call/text, the success rate is BH very high. Sometimes such a system is necessary for a few months. Besides the goal setting, the ability to be in contact with a mentor is invaluable. Advice, a shoulder to cry on, chizuk, a bop on the head, whatever is necessary is available. It should be set up in a non obsessive way - a bochur should be living his own life - be it yeshiva, working, vacation, or whatever - he doesn't need you as his new spouse, and he shouldn't be focusing on this so much. His daily feeling of self worth should be coming from the "meat and potatoes" of his day - his learning - his job - his general shmiras hamitzvos, not hyper-focused on this issue. At the same time let him feel comfortable when an urge hits to reach out and have you help him bust it. Just do not become codependent. 



As far as how to help bust urges, GYE provides many great strategies. I have my own but they are not so conventional, and therefore will not appear on this post.



Obviously for all of this to work, access to pornography must be cut off completely. With rare exception, one cannot stop masturbating while still viewing arousing material. And besides, pornography is assur and highly toxic in and of itself.  Filters, kosher phones, contracts regarding device usage must all be put in place for all the above to work. A healthy conversation about what sexuality is and is not, what real sex and intimacy look like as opposed to what is seen on the screen, as well as detailing what happens when rach"l a wife catches a husband watching pornography are all major motivators to seriously kasher one's viewing habits. I find that when a guy hears that as far as a woman is concerned - watching pornography is basically the same as having sex with a prostitute, they start to realize the pain and trauma they will cause a future spouse. And guys really are good. They want to be good, they want to be close to Hashem, they want to do mitzvos and not do aveiros. They have been blinded by the pornography industry, along with feeling unable to live without the constant arousal and thrill. When you turn on the light of truth and they start to understand how hurt their wife will be, it is a game changer.



This is a summary of what we can share with a bochur who is struggling. I think the original question was "What can we expect from him?" The answer - nothing - just help him develop his own answer. It will be much better than where he is now. And he is great for trying.

This masterpiece is pure Chinnuch, deep understanding, true Ahavas Yisroel.
Most of all - it can help us to help others.
I wish I had talked to someone who understood all this a long time ago. Maybe there's someone out there I know, today, who should not have to wait any longer. Can be in a big way or a small way. But we each can make a bigger difference than we sometimes know. Halevay we would/ should like we are making a difference even though we don't know we are, and then we surely will.
"It is not our abilities that show who we truly are, it is our choices.” ---- Albus Dumbeldore (as per Chris Columbus)

Re: Lessons Learned 01 Aug 2023 04:18 #399324

  • Hashem Help Me
  • Current streak: 2845 days
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 4012
"Tumah" and "bad" are not synonomous. For example Chazal were goizer tumah on sifrei kodesh. Sifrei kodesh are definitely not "bad". Obviously this is not a simple discussion......
Feel free to contact me at michelgelner@gmail.com

My threads: Lessons Learned: guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/335248-Lessons-Learned

                    My Story and G-d Bless GYE: guardyoureyes.com/forum/17-Balei-Battims-Forum/303036-My-story-and-G-d-bless-GYE

Re: Lessons Learned 02 Aug 2023 00:48 #399373

  • bright
  • Current streak: 74 days
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 616
  • Karma: 23
[quote="richtig" post=398976 date=1689775180 catid=20]
] wrote:

Ah this is a geshmake topic! It may be worth pointing out that klal yisroel could not be with their their wives in the days leading up to matan torah, and moshe rabeinu seems to have had to be poiresh from his wife at least from that point on, for the rest of his life, to be on the madreiga of nevua which was meyuchad for him. Of course, these are exceptions, but that is the point- we are not on the level to live like that, but that seems to be much higher madreigos. Not that sex is bad, but it also is not necessarily "clean"; hence, the requirement for tevila for truma or learning (especially if you learn on a level of k'nesinasa).. 

Yes, however even Aharon and Miryam were not on that madreiga. Also it would seem to be that the idea is more the mindset of levity in which it takes place is counter to receiving the Torah and receiving nevua see brachos 22a that mamad har sinai had to be "bayma byira breses uvezaya". It is not a question of bad, just not for this time. For example, dancing may be great mitzva, but may be out of place during kol nidrei. (See sefer binyan habayis that brings up this dichotomy and says it is based on a sod.) 
Nothing good grows in the dark. 

Re: Lessons Learned 24 Aug 2023 04:57 #400361

  • Hashem Help Me
  • Current streak: 2845 days
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 4012
So i finally had the courage to do it - and the courage to post about it. 

As i mentioned in earlier posts, when i was a young teenager, i played around with other guys and we masturbated each other.  i switched yeshivas and lost contact with them. This was always a weight that sat on my conscience...

I did some FBI research to locate these two guys. Finally i located one - he is living a few thousand miles away. Bh we were able to speak and he was so nice about it. He accepted my apology for teaching him how to do it (by my doing it to him).

The second fellow i was nervous to call. I always had a feeling that i damaged him psychologically. We used to "attack" each other and then masturbate each other. After "growing up" i realized that this could be traumatic - and although he used to do it to me as well, the first "surprise attack" was from me to him. Well, finally i reached him. He as well accepted my apology and reassured me that i had not "damaged" him, but that unfortunately he had had "relationships" with other guys as well, and had unfortunately suffered a lot. But he does not feel i was the cause for any of his suffering because our interactions were minor compared with others... Of course i was relieved that i finally had reached out, however i was saddened by his difficult years. (I as well went through years of depression and anxiety because of this struggle, and do not wish that torment on anyone). 

Slowly, i am being given the chance by Hashem to make amends for my past. I hope other guys with similar experiences muster up the courage to take responsibility for past actions, and by doing so gain closure....
Feel free to contact me at michelgelner@gmail.com

My threads: Lessons Learned: guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/335248-Lessons-Learned

                    My Story and G-d Bless GYE: guardyoureyes.com/forum/17-Balei-Battims-Forum/303036-My-story-and-G-d-bless-GYE

Re: Lessons Learned 24 Aug 2023 05:07 #400363

  • Markz
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 8228
  • Karma: 426
Hashem Help Me wrote on 24 Aug 2023 04:57:
So i finally had the courage to do it - and the courage to post about it. 

As i mentioned in earlier posts, when i was a young teenager, i played around with other guys and we masturbated each other.  i switched yeshivas and lost contact with them. This was always a weight that sat on my conscience...

I did some FBI research to locate these two guys. Finally i located one - he is living a few thousand miles away. Bh we were able to speak and he was so nice about it. He accepted my apology for teaching him how to do it (by my doing it to him).

The second fellow i was nervous to call. I always had a feeling that i damaged him psychologically. We used to "attack" each other and then masturbate each other. After "growing up" i realized that this could be traumatic - and although he used to do it to me as well, the first "surprise attack" was from me to him. Well, finally i reached him. He as well accepted my apology and reassured me that i had not "damaged" him, but that unfortunately he had had "relationships" with other guys as well, and had unfortunately suffered a lot. But he does not feel i was the cause for any of his suffering because our interactions were minor compared with others... Of course i was relieved that i finally had reached out, however i was saddened by his difficult years. (I as well went through years of depression and anxiety because of this struggle, and do not wish that torment on anyone). 

Slowly, i am being given the chance by Hashem to make amends for my past. I hope other guys with similar experiences muster up the courage to take responsibility for past actions, and by doing so gain closure....

WOW WOW WOW

That must have been tough. 

ABSOLUTE HERO!
My Story---------Dov Quotes




FREE LUST TRUCK TOWING
Click HERE to checkout;
100 Day Success Stories: cordnoy, Dov, Gevura and more...
• Awesome Threads Saved for You
• Cast Your Vote

GYE Plenty Solutions
➣ The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk

➣ Nice Trucking Story

Re: Lessons Learned 24 Aug 2023 11:05 #400366

  • chaimoigen
  • Current streak: 511 days
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 1248
  • Karma: 133
Hashem Help Me wrote on 24 Aug 2023 04:57:
So i finally had the courage to do it - and the courage to post about it. 

As i mentioned in earlier posts, when i was a young teenager, i played around with other guys and we masturbated each other.  i switched yeshivas and lost contact with them. This was always a weight that sat on my conscience...

I did some FBI research to locate these two guys. Finally i located one - he is living a few thousand miles away. Bh we were able to speak and he was so nice about it. He accepted my apology for teaching him how to do it (by my doing it to him).

The second fellow i was nervous to call. I always had a feeling that i damaged him psychologically. We used to "attack" each other and then masturbate each other. After "growing up" i realized that this could be traumatic - and although he used to do it to me as well, the first "surprise attack" was from me to him. Well, finally i reached him. He as well accepted my apology and reassured me that i had not "damaged" him, but that unfortunately he had had "relationships" with other guys as well, and had unfortunately suffered a lot. But he does not feel i was the cause for any of his suffering because our interactions were minor compared with others... Of course i was relieved that i finally had reached out, however i was saddened by his difficult years. (I as well went through years of depression and anxiety because of this struggle, and do not wish that torment on anyone). 

Slowly, i am being given the chance by Hashem to make amends for my past. I hope other guys with similar experiences muster up the courage to take responsibility for past actions, and by doing so gain closure....

רבי,
אהה, יותר ממה שכתוב כאן קראת לפנינו...

יש כל דבריך הנעימים והמחייבים קיום כל כ' עיקרים של רבינו יונה,
ועתה גם לרבות תיקון המעוות כפי היכולת ועוד יותר מכפי היכולת,

קיימת במלא המובן "אלמדה פושעים דרכיך"

יה"ר שנזכה כלנו ללמוד ממך היאך לחזור בתשובה שלימה
ושיהו כל הנוטעים ממך כמוך עכ"פ במקצת.

באה"ר
מאן דבעי חיים

Please feel free to reach out anytime at chaim.oigen@gmail.com

Re: Lessons Learned 24 Aug 2023 14:14 #400376

  • Hashem Help Me
  • Current streak: 2845 days
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 4012
Markz wrote on 24 Aug 2023 05:07:

Hashem Help Me wrote on 24 Aug 2023 04:57:
So i finally had the courage to do it - and the courage to post about it. 



WOW WOW WOW

That must have been tough. 



Actually it was much harder to post than to make those calls. 
Feel free to contact me at michelgelner@gmail.com

My threads: Lessons Learned: guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/335248-Lessons-Learned

                    My Story and G-d Bless GYE: guardyoureyes.com/forum/17-Balei-Battims-Forum/303036-My-story-and-G-d-bless-GYE

Re: Lessons Learned 24 Aug 2023 19:03 #400397

  • bright
  • Current streak: 74 days
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 616
  • Karma: 23
Hashem Help Me wrote on 24 Aug 2023 14:14:

Markz wrote on 24 Aug 2023 05:07:

Hashem Help Me wrote on 24 Aug 2023 04:57:
So i finally had the courage to do it - and the courage to post about it. 




WOW WOW WOW

That must have been tough. 




Actually it was much harder to post than to make those calls. 

Why?
Nothing good grows in the dark. 

Re: Lessons Learned 27 Aug 2023 17:42 #400482

  • Hashem Help Me
  • Current streak: 2845 days
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 4012
bright wrote on 24 Aug 2023 19:03:

Hashem Help Me wrote on 24 Aug 2023 14:14:

Markz wrote on 24 Aug 2023 05:07:

Hashem Help Me wrote on 24 Aug 2023 04:57:
So i finally had the courage to do it - and the courage to post about it. 





WOW WOW WOW

That must have been tough. 





Actually it was much harder to post than to make those calls. 

Why?

I guess because the phone calls were one-time acts. Get it over with and be done with it. For some reason i was not worried that either of the guys would publicise my calls and publicly humiliate me. So although it was uncomfortable, it's over.

Posting is there to stay. Anyone who wants can read it. Many guys on the site know me for real... Secondly, for some reason, writing it up caused me to relive those sick moments. I guess that is the explanation.
Feel free to contact me at michelgelner@gmail.com

My threads: Lessons Learned: guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/335248-Lessons-Learned

                    My Story and G-d Bless GYE: guardyoureyes.com/forum/17-Balei-Battims-Forum/303036-My-story-and-G-d-bless-GYE

Re: Lessons Learned 27 Aug 2023 19:40 #400493

  • ytw
  • Current streak: 692 days
  • OFFLINE
  • Senior Boarder
  • Posts: 44
  • Karma: 3
WOW, I sincerely admire you for taking the courage. you're an amazing person helping others while never stopping your personal growth.
YES! I AM A PROUD SPIRITUAL CANARY!!!
a must listen for each and every addict.

https://www.torahanytime.com/#/lectures?v=181779
feel free to comment on this lecture here.

Watch the daily Vayemaen videos here.

Re: Lessons Learned 27 Aug 2023 19:58 #400495

  • ki sorisa
  • OFFLINE
  • Junior Boarder
  • Posts: 35
  • Karma: 4
Hashem Help Me wrote on 24 Aug 2023 04:57:
So i finally had the courage to do it - and the courage to post about it. 

As i mentioned in earlier posts, when i was a young teenager, i played around with other guys and we masturbated each other.  i switched yeshivas and lost contact with them. This was always a weight that sat on my conscience...

I did some FBI research to locate these two guys. Finally i located one - he is living a few thousand miles away. Bh we were able to speak and he was so nice about it. He accepted my apology for teaching him how to do it (by my doing it to him).

The second fellow i was nervous to call. I always had a feeling that i damaged him psychologically. We used to "attack" each other and then masturbate each other. After "growing up" i realized that this could be traumatic - and although he used to do it to me as well, the first "surprise attack" was from me to him. Well, finally i reached him. He as well accepted my apology and reassured me that i had not "damaged" him, but that unfortunately he had had "relationships" with other guys as well, and had unfortunately suffered a lot. But he does not feel i was the cause for any of his suffering because our interactions were minor compared with others... Of course i was relieved that i finally had reached out, however i was saddened by his difficult years. (I as well went through years of depression and anxiety because of this struggle, and do not wish that torment on anyone). 

Slowly, i am being given the chance by Hashem to make amends for my past. I hope other guys with similar experiences muster up the courage to take responsibility for past actions, and by doing so gain closure....

Wow, I could only imagine how much courage it took to post that. My admiration for you is only greater. May you continue with much success in your own personal growth as well as with guiding others!

Re: Lessons Learned 28 Aug 2023 10:27 #400530

  • richtig
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 516
  • Karma: 25
Hashem Help Me wrote on 24 Aug 2023 04:57:
So i finally had the courage to do it - and the courage to post about it. 

As i mentioned in earlier posts, when i was a young teenager, i played around with other guys and we masturbated each other.  i switched yeshivas and lost contact with them. This was always a weight that sat on my conscience...

I did some FBI research to locate these two guys. Finally i located one - he is living a few thousand miles away. Bh we were able to speak and he was so nice about it. He accepted my apology for teaching him how to do it (by my doing it to him).

The second fellow i was nervous to call. I always had a feeling that i damaged him psychologically. We used to "attack" each other and then masturbate each other. After "growing up" i realized that this could be traumatic - and although he used to do it to me as well, the first "surprise attack" was from me to him. Well, finally i reached him. He as well accepted my apology and reassured me that i had not "damaged" him, but that unfortunately he had had "relationships" with other guys as well, and had unfortunately suffered a lot. But he does not feel i was the cause for any of his suffering because our interactions were minor compared with others... Of course i was relieved that i finally had reached out, however i was saddened by his difficult years. (I as well went through years of depression and anxiety because of this struggle, and do not wish that torment on anyone). 

Slowly, i am being given the chance by Hashem to make amends for my past. I hope other guys with similar experiences muster up the courage to take responsibility for past actions, and by doing so gain closure....

U'mi yaaneh acharei hamelech
"It is not our abilities that show who we truly are, it is our choices.” ---- Albus Dumbeldore (as per Chris Columbus)

Re: Lessons Learned 13 Oct 2023 11:37 #402216

  • Hashem Help Me
  • Current streak: 2845 days
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 4012
An opinion - The guilt guys carry around from these issues is enormous and often overwhelming. As has been posted many times, the vast majority of strugglers "fell in" at younger ages without receiving proper education and guidance regarding sexuality and the issur of hotzoas zera etc. Numerous attempts to curb the behaviors are derailed by the yi'ush and guilt. It is an amazing "ma'aseh Satan" that guys who have almost no bechira in this issue - measure themselves exclusively with this issue. Nothing else they do counts. Torah, tefilla, dikduk b'mitzvos, chassodim, all don't count because "i am a mushchas, Hashem hates me, and i am a total loser". Step one in getting better is changing this mindset.

Why am i mentioning it now (again)? Because a similar ma'aseh Satan is cropping up. Numerous guys here who are really working on themselves, - some of them BH very successfully - are convinced that they are the causes of the horrific loss of life in Eretz Yisroel. The Satan has found a new way to demoralize the oilam.  Now it could be that we - along with all of shomrei Torah Umitzvos - bear some responsibility due to our laxity in limud haTorah and/or any of the Taryag mitzvos - and that is something we look to Gedolei Yisroel to point out to us. However i firmly believe that any guy who is working on this inyan, and had the courage and mesiras nefesh to put shame and embarrassment on the side and reached out for help - be it live, on the phone, or email/posting may have actually saved lives. Guys who used to act out freely and uncontrollably, now are restraining many many times, and are spending much time and effort to be ne'eman l'Hashem may have been the zchus (along with the zchus haTorah and other mitzvos that so many people do) that caused this horrific attack to not have been much larger rach"l, which obviously could have been the case.
Feel free to contact me at michelgelner@gmail.com

My threads: Lessons Learned: guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/335248-Lessons-Learned

                    My Story and G-d Bless GYE: guardyoureyes.com/forum/17-Balei-Battims-Forum/303036-My-story-and-G-d-bless-GYE
Time to create page: 1.04 seconds

Are you sure?

Yes