cordnoy wrote:


I suggest you do whatever it takes to keep this monster starved.

I hold that looking at women is the single most powerful fuel that keeps this addiction going. (The other is entertaining fantasies). Conversely, vigilantly guarding our eyes is the most powerful tool in our hands to overcome it.

...My very sanity is being threatened if I take in her image. The only way I know is to avoid it. If I look because it's still habit to take a first look, I BOUNCE my eyes off her in an instant. This has become a learned reflex. If I look long enough to enjoy her, or even discern her features, that's way too long. I haven't done it in 4-1/2 years, and coincidentally, have been sober the same time.

Stop listening to your addict.

Commit fully and live!

Found this gem from the Blind Beggar Shlit"a:

I just realized that I objectify all women. The pretty ones are no chiddush, but when I see a fat or old woman and write her off as worthless I am also objectifying her. Fat women and old women are also people, I know some personally and they are real. Lots to learn.

Due to several emails and conversations and threads, i was thinkin' about startin' a new thread for this upcomin' topic, but decided against it.

Consider here a thread titled: I am just Curious about.......I am not Lustin'

This mornin'.... I was curious about.....

....how the woman in her joggin' suit looked in the rain
....how my wife looked as she was gettin' dressed
....how the singer singin' on the radio 'on and on and on and on' appears on youtube
....how the camp counselor walks in her slinky long skirt
....a different singer - if she ever sang in her birthday suit

Now, each of these thoughts lasted less than 3 seconds (Skep...is that ok?), and only one of the five did I actually attempt to actualize.

That lead to my conclusion.....I was only curious....I wasn't lustin'.

Ha! Malarkey to the tenth degree!

[Ed. note: to be fair to Skep - even though I was jokin'....Skep means (I think) that if one simply notices a woman and his notice lasts less than three seconds - that is simply the way us men are wired, and one should not take stock of that; one should not klap al cheit and go to Arizal's mikvah and do the 40 kachalim - that is ok (certainly for the non-addict, whomever that may be); if he looks more, he is lustin'. Additionally, if one turns to look at a sight he would find pleasure in - even if it is less than three seconds - that also constitutes lustin'.]

Football is a game played by men
Gotta run, hit da ground and get up again
Preparation durin' the week is a definite must
and so it is with recovery from lust.

Gotta shvitz, gotta train, muscles to build
Otherwise, you gonna get killed
Guys on the other side can be pretty tough
Scrownin' and growlin' their looks pretty gruff

If you ain't prepared and you're just skin and bone
Da coach (memories) will bench you - you'll be sittin' alone
you go on that field with a sly silly smile
Cornerback will kick you - for at least half a mile

And so it is when we wake up each morn
And that desire hits - I wanna watch porn
Are you prepared? Did you work on the steps?
Or were you preoccupied with women and sex?

The ultimate goal is to score a touchdown
But a cheerleader, a mascot or a silly clown
Won't get you those points if youre in the band
Playin' the game with the ball in your hand

Yippee I, yippee o; Go team go!
Silly jumpin' jacks - performin' a show
Makes you feel good - bit it takes no courage
Unless you join the big boys on the line of scrimmage.

It may be a sport, but it ain't for no patsies
No style points awarded - unlike the Grammies
All men are welcome to don the uniform and helmet
Work hard and get ready - you won't get the hatchet.

While the ultimate prize is one hundred yards
It's a large playin' field - must always be on guard
Can't do it all at once with a heave and a bomb
Do it methodically - must remain calm

Several yards at a time - over and over
Focused and vigilant - cant afford a turnover
Accumulate first downs - your opponent gets weary
Every ounce of confidence - it begins to get scary

Again and again - you knock him to the grass dirt
he's left starin' at the sky - flat on his bloodied & hurt
Not sure on the nimshal, but one thing's certainly known
To score points - you gotta get outta your comfort zone.

If you keep at what's easy - it'll be good for a while
But eventually you'll return to your old lifestyle
Try somethin' new - that you won't necessarily like
for otherwise, you will have that same old psych

Lust that's inside of us - it wants the big fix
"Connect with me; make me whole" - we were true addicts
Reality driven inward - the connection was magic
the remorse and emptiness - the cycle was tragic

End on a high note - the super bowl shuffle
One can get there - if his feathers he does ruffle
And yet, the focus gotta remain on the play that's ahead
and that decision is really a "life or death"

b'hatzlachah

Some guy sent me this in an email this mornin'

When the tayvah comes a brewin'
And the desires begin to stirrin'
Need a checklist of actions to do some churnin'
To get rid of this fire that's burnin'

First things first, say it out loud
Scream it from the rooftops; it's not the time to be proud (hear that fellows)
Verbalize to God that I know I aint in control
And then perhaps, take a five minute stroll (in a safe place)

Time to reassess where it is I am holdin'
Go back to Step 1 - to which we are beholden
Make sure I accept that I will always have this struggle
And that's ok... livin' life on a bubble

No; I will not be one who in life is white-knucklin'
For one can get bogged down if he is constantly strugglin'
Review those tools and make sure they penetrate
to go on livin' life in a true happy state

Nothin' to be gained by lettin' in da little sneak
He will never be satisfied with just one click or quick peek
So throw him da hell out! Let him prowl on da weak!
I am a "12 stepper" and a strong GYE Geek!

So in conclusion for now, for that's all that counts
I have the wherewithal to give him that bounce
I will go on with life to a life that is fit
Not the one ha has in mind, for that's a bunch of ***!

[Wonder which idiot wrote that!]

Saw this:

There's an old Jack Benny bit where a mugger jumps out of the bushes and says, "Your money or your life." Benny just stands there doing nothing until the mugger gets irate and shouts, "I said, 'Your money or your life!'" Finally Benny snaps back, "I'm thinking. I'm thinking."

I am an addict. For me, giving up my addiction is like Jack Benny giving up his money. If you tell me, "Your object of desire or your life," my answer is, "I'm thinking. I'm thinking."

Let me explain to you what it means - to me - to be a recovering addict. Repeated experience has made it abundantly clear that I can either have everything I ever wanted out of life OR I can have the object of my desire. I can't have both. If I work my program of recovery, all my dreams come true. If I have one drink/bite/look, I turn my life into a living hell. But that's not what makes me an addict. What makes me an addict is that - for me - that's actually a tough call to make.

I suppose that since I am in recovery it means that, in the end, I keep deciding that my life is more important to me than my addiction. But that's not a decision that I arrive at without a great deal of daily deliberation. Whenever I am distressed - or sometimes even for no reason at all - I contemplate whether or not I should just at out and let all of the chips fall where they may. After indulging this perverse fantasy for a while, I ultimately decide that it's not a decision I'm prepared to make - not because I wouldn't like to, but because I can't live with the consequences. I know that I will just end up in so much pain that I will have to give up and - if I don't die or go insane first - go back to recovery again anyway. So I choose life. But it's not an instinctive choice. That's how messed up I am. Are you beginning to understand?

Why do I act out?

You know why I act out? I act out because it takes me away from "me." I don't like being "me." Not that I think I would be any happier being someone else, but I definitely don't like being "me." I like numbness. Mental numbness. My mind goes so fast. My brain won't shut up. The thoughts produce feelings faster than my puny heart can bear. My addiction takes care of that. Acting out quiets the "me" and the less "me" there is, the better I feel. When I am really good and drunk, I have these beautiful moments where, suddenly, it doesn't even hurt so much to be "me."

In recovery I have learned that I can get from my relationship with G-d everything that I ever wanted to get out of my addiction. When I give myself up to G-d, it doesn't hurt so much anymore to be "me."

I guess that's really why I stay sober. I know that I said earlier it's because I am afraid of the misery and insanity and death that my acting out would bring. But that's not the real reason. Misery and insanity and death just aren't big enough deterrents to keep an addict like me sober very long. They might be able to scare me straight for a while, but they're not enough to keep me sober day after day. No, the real reason I stay sober is because all I ever wanted from acting out I can get from my relationship with G-d.

And do you know what it was that I wanted out of acting out? Acting out promised that if I could just get rid of "me" long enough, then in that quiet, I would somehow finally be "me."

This is the truth that I've found ~ real life begins when you learn to love G-d with the very heart that loves to act out.

cordnoy wrote on 07 Sep 2015 21:41:

Oooooh, this ones powerful!

Maybe you should change the name of the thread to....

cordnoy wrote on 29 Aug 2019 18:42:

Some make an  erroneous conclusion that if someone fell after years of sobriety, that means the program he was workin' must be a failure. That is incorrect. Firstly, maybe it wasn't for him. Secondly, maybe he didn't work it correctly. Thirdly, and the most important of all, is that it depends on how he proceeds from there. There are many avenues he can take, some good, and that will be a product of his time and efforts in workin' that program, and some will be negative, and, quite possibly, despite of his program workin'.

Personally, whether I fall or not, I have gained tremendously from GYE, SA, the 12 steps, the books, the camaraderie of others, mussar and much more.

Godspeed to all

Bigmoish wrote on 06 Jan 2021 05:46:

"Stickin' with it" has its ups and downs. Sorta like life. Sorta like marriage. Sex, learnin', business, raisin' kids. 

Dat's livin' I guess. 

cordnoy wrote on 07 Sep 2015 21:41:

Hey, nothing changes as long as everything stays the same, right? What's comfy is certainly not the best guide for us. In fact, for me, whatever is the opposite of 'emotionally comfy' is a far better guide! Funny how that works.

Spoke with five new frummies...

"How to get out?," they ask. Well, actually, few ask that. Most are pretty sure they know exactly how to 'quit'...they are convinced that their only real problem is staying out of it forever.

So most of us talk religion, talk self-control, talk gimmicks or escaping with a 'filter'. Escape from ourselves? We say we are Guarding Our Eyes...but are we really just Guarding Our Lies?

Anybody else want to elaborate on some of the safety lies we tell to ourselves, to our spouses and to the good and frum people around us? A newbie on GYE just posted the revelation that the reason his wife was about to leave him and dissolve their family was not because of 'kedusha' issues - but because he lies to her. Finally, someone who sees it like it is...

I like staying sober today, so here goes:

One whopper I tell myself is that my wife must see me being good, to love me. So I am motivated to fake and hide whatever questionable thing I may be doing right now from her. It risks me getting 'bad press' w/her!

That's a lie. We have learned that when I do right by me, my wife sees that, my kids see that, everyone relevant sees that. And things fall into place.

So I commit to doing the next right thing...and that is gettting dressed now and going to shacharis.

Adios amigos!

I think Shlomo24 said it all when he wrote that change requires change.
And Shteeble said the truth when he wrote that if it's important to you then spend time on it.
And I agree w Tiger who wrote that opening up to a safe person who understands is the way to go.

All that stuff says to me that if I look at how I conduct myself during the years of acting out, I will learn how to do things right...by basically doing the opposite. Isolation is king when I act out. Heck, even when I'm not acting out, the worse I feel the more I tend to isolate. If I am lusting or angry or sad, boy do I make myself lonelier by trachten un trachten, etc. and 'figuring it all out'...cuz after all, nobody can really understand me, right?

So if I wanna get right, then I need to do the opposite and start learning how to make friends, how to share myself without cleaning off all my dirt first, and to practice doing those things. Thinking about them will not help me. Thinking is a great part of my problem itself because it increases my fantasy of self-reliance and 'salvation through havonah' - and those things lead to one thing: more masturbation (in private, of course). 

And I have learned that fake named friends are not really real friends. So what you really need ain't happening here staying on any forum. But it's a sweet intro.

And I have learned that self-honesty is the fruit of being honest with others. Kind of like na'aseh venishma works...counter-intuitive. The silly brain tells me that I need to first be fully self-honest so that I will know just what to say to others...and that's a lie.

So, continued hatzlocha you are on the path with us knuckleheads!  

As far as the struggle: I've been teetering lately. I have been searching keywords that can bring up triggering images. I have not searched directly for explicit material but I've been entering stuff in the search bar that possibly might give me a hit. I'm being quite pathetic. I'm teetering between keeping my streak going or just throwing in the towel so that leaves me sticking my toes over the line... It's nuts. I've been clean for so long and I'm struggling like crazy...I'm not happy with myself regarding what I've been doing: it's not ok for me even if I don't put "porn" in the search bar...However I held myself back from totally losing control...I was really tempted to!...so that is definitely something!
I've been needing to use a computer a lot lately and it's not filtered... I keep on pushing off to have it filtered...but I really must take care of it ASAP! 

k9,
I can SO relate to this!
I struggled with these thoughts and feelings for many years. You can read thorugh my thread for some of it, although I don't think my thread gives enough of an indication of how long I struggled and the immense pain I went through. 

The fireproof movie was awesome for me to watch. Probably the most important scene for me was the one where (after much struggle) he finally gets rid of his computer and leaves his wife flowers (where there computer used to be) with a beautiful note...
... and right after that he gets divorce papers from his wife. This was a massive turning point for me. He could've easily gone to victim land and wallowed in self pity and righteous indignation. After all the work that he put in, and all that he's given and given, this is what he gets in return??

This is where greatness is found, and you're on the right track. There is nothing more breathtaking and superhuman (dare I say G-dly?) than continuously giving under these conditions. I read it in your words even with the ups and downs. 
Chazak chazak!

You can do this!!!!
[You really can't- it's superhuman, but if you get out of the way, Hashem can do it for you. Now I sound like Dov...        :grimacing: ]
Wishing you much Hatzlacha!