To clarify what thompson said. I dont even know what extremism is at this point. It sounds like your barometer for that is western values. Anything in conflict with what western society or the scientific process defines as true is baseline reality and anything else extreme. People here see you as extreme going against rabbinic understanding, which is at the core of our faith. What we understand as baseline reality. If that is the case, I would suggest, like many others have, that you focus on the reasons you, not hashem, want to quit. You are apparently coming from a way different viewpoint than most here. And the viewpoint isnt even the point. Like I said, the conversation about your doubts can be had, but not here, and it has to be a conversation. Not throwing stuff around. 

livingpalpitation wrote on 09 Sep 2024 17:43:

Dude. This site is targeted to people with lust issues up to and including sex addiction. Addiction is comparable to cancer. It ravages lives.

Many people find themselves extremely resistant to changing their lives about this. They throw up all sorts of walls, defenses, and excuses ("It's not my fault I didn't stop, it's those rude people who didn't want to help me"). The excuses all sound good, but dig down and it's just a luster protecting their little treasure of lust. Maybe that's you, maybe it's not. 

If you want to get clean (for whatever reason) this is a good place for it. If you don't, then nobody else is going to convince you that you should.

None of those statements are contradictory. In any case, I’m not sure what you want, but I know helping me is not it.

your keenly aware, so your stuck

You’re right in that this is the wrong forum for this discussion.

You’re wrong in saying I believe science is the only baseline reality. Don’t paint me as worshiping at the altar of western values.

I refuse to deify human understanding, rabbinical or otherwise, which is apparently heretical to some here.

But all of that is irrelevant. If you look at the entirety of this post and replies, we’ve arrived at nothing. Most people (myself included) have only reaffirmed their viewpoints or suggested this is not the place for the conversation to be had.

We can end here.

Take a moment to rewrite that sentence because it doesn’t make sense when I read it.

livingpalpitation wrote on 09 Sep 2024 18:20:

If the only thing that will help you is discussing if G-d cares if you masturbate or not we can discuss it it.
I say G-d cares. Tremendously. ( I also say its irrelevant)
You say G-d wants you to be happy so he does not mind at all. ( You also say its very relevant) 
Fair synopsis?
So now that you think G-d is ok with why do you want to stop?

livingpalpitation wrote on 09 Sep 2024 18:24:

Looking at the entirety of this conversation has left me with the clear impression that you are here for nothing other than to churn balls. There were plenty of responses that were friendly, nonjudgmental and presented opportunities to further discuss this, on or off the forum. 

You have consistently maintained an attitude of antagonistic negativity to the good folks here. Plenty of people here have had struggles with the same Emunah question and we are all struggling with kedusha issues. 

I agree with you, please end it here and sign up to a mainstream nofap community where you can find the help you need, irrespective of religious concerns...

That is, if you really want it.

livingpalpitation wrote on 09 Sep 2024 18:24:

Was a pleasure to meet you. If you ever decide that you don't want to masturbate anymore because you just don't want to - Than we got plenny of tools to help you 
G'luck 

I think he specifically has religious concerns, since he doesn't seem to have taken kindly to the torrent of posts telling him religious concerns aren't going to motivate him. A Jew is allowed to be spiritually sensitive and just want to know why something's wrong.

In any case seems like we scared him off (self included)

In case he's still reading, I'll entertain him with the whole "the seed originates in the brain" idea which he alluded to but nobody here mentioned:

In general, I trust the rabbis to talk about spiritual phenomena more than others, and the act of drawing a soul down into a body is in that category. The seat of the neshama is in the brain, and calling down souls is an act of the neshama.

They are not merely clothed in the sperm. They are clothed in a spiritual body as well, which serves as their interface with the body. (this is in the Tanya somewhere and I've heard it other places too) As mentioned, this is affected by thoughts at the time of conception, as well as the actual circumstances of the conception etc.

As far as masturbation -- the rabbis say it draws souls down, without giving them proper bodies...so the klippah gives them bodies. On this I trust the rabbis, whose spiritual awareness far exceeded mine. Why did G-d arrange the world with such a possibility? Because the act of drawing souls into the world has a profound effect on the mind, in particular because of the unique connection between those souls and your soul. When done properly this creates love between parent and child. When done improperly this creates love (and frustration) between parent and demon-child, which manifests physically as outright insanity, wanting things that won't help you, thinking G-d hates you, not believing in yourself , or other more conventional insanities, ADHD, depression, etc. The sources are clear that pgam habrit literally makes a person insane, and look at the world today -- more insane than ever, even by medical standards.

Feel free to PM me if this is the conversation you want and I'll do my (admittedly limited) best. Or ignore the people shouting you down and have a conversation here.

(I maintain that conversations like this fit perfectly for the torah&chizuk approach section of the forum, for people with less serious struggles. It could be the reason his struggle seems less serious is because he hasn't yet revealed the extent of it by trying to struggle, in which case he can later move on to other sections...)

livingpalpitation wrote on 09 Sep 2024 18:24:

Yes I am. Doesnt mean it shouldnt be had or that I dont hear what you are saying.


I am happy to hear I am wrong about that. I am still not sure what is the baseline then? This has been what I've been asking you since the start (in pm and on the forum). Where are you coming from?


Many people have been very understanding of you. You are not having a conversation. Just throwing everyone under the bus. You have not even elaborated about what you find wrong with rabbinic understanding in this area. Maybe this is due to some of the reactions you got. I am sorry if it is. Either way, you are being very defensive and dont sound open or interested in anything at this point.


Yes lets. Please, please reach out to Hashem Help Me, he can be very understanding. I wish you well.

wish you good luck,
 O' and dont forget, god loves you

richtig wrote on 08 Sep 2024 15:47:

The ezer mikodesh writes that it is derabonon (athough a very chomur one obviously) not sure if there are cholkim or not

I’m not sure if I’m relieved or disappointed that I missed this whole thread….


Thompson, loved your post. 

Hi LN, if you come back to visit, why erase your account? I hope I did not offend you. Some great responses here!

Do have the same disquietude regarding other Mitzvos? Like how do we know the lulav is the biblically ordained species?

Maybe phylacteries should really be rounded? The injunction against round head pieces was based on a health reasoning of mortal danger. This has been proven by cutting edge modern science that there is a dearth of documented deaths with proven causation of circular object.

We've been objurgated to avoid consuming meat and fish products together, due to physical danger to health. With the insight of modern science, we can declare that there has never been a thorough study with a control group, accompanied by university professors, proving a significantly increased fatality rate asking consumers of said combination.

Or do these questions only arise on this topic? And maybe marriage between two men should be allowed, considering our brilliant and fresh understanding of physiology and psychology which we clearly see there is zero negative impact of such a union?

In other words, Rationalization, my dear Watson!

One more small point. If modern science lacks proof of demons created from seed, do they cogently comprehend how a man and a woman can beget a human life, with a soul??