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growing higher 04 Jun 2021 19:32 #369471

  • gettingthere9
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Here we go...
I am new here and have been looking around GYE for the last few days...
OMG!!! I feel like Harry Potter visiting Diagon alley for the first time...
The ppl here are so inspirational and so amazing!
Hope for the best Prepare for the worst

Re: growing higher 04 Jun 2021 19:54 #369473

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Welcome to GYE! Love your moshol lol.
Stay connected and make sure to open up. Opening up, even to a bunch of anonymous people online create accountability and helps put things in perspective. Also, the advice you get here is invaluable.
A gut Shabbos!
אם יהיו חטאיכם כשנים, כשלג ילבינו

Re: growing higher 04 Jun 2021 20:24 #369475

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So a little about myself...
Sorry if this is a really long post but this is the first time really i am sharing anything about my struggles with anyone so i am trying to write this all in one sitting.
I am married and have two kids all amazing and wonderful. I have been struggling with masturbation for a few years and have had different tekufos where i was watching movies and had a pretty much unfiltered phone.
I come from a pretty standard yeshivish background and never knew how to really act out before i got married.
​I definitely fantasized about it (a lot)...
I was (and still am) a really good boy and always struggled with the good me and the bad me. I thought during high school that maybe I really had it much harder than anyone else (like that was my tafkid in this world type...) and others had an easier time.
Anyways I got rid of my smartphone by one of the asifos and committed to being better at watching my eyes but soon realized that my mind was just as much of the problem as i was fantasizing all day. Also it seems that the imagination is able to get me  pretty good with real frum girls somehow...
Obviously when I had easy access to the internet there was a completely different issue but now I was looking around much more and I guess trying harder to find stuff (cuz it wasn't easy anymore).
Lots more to say... anyways I never watched porn ever. and never acted out at this point.
After I got married I kind of realized that I could do it on my own... 
Then one day I tried it...
and in all went downhill from there...
I never heard it talked about ever(I think i can confidently say EVER). I knew it was 'wrong' I knew it was probably assur but nothing else and I didn't know that it would be something I would be dealing with for a long long time... I didn't know any consequences at all. I didn't even try to stop in the beginning.
The day I tried to stop was the day I realized that I had a big problem... 
I tried and tried.... and got very frustrated that I couldn't stop and something always triggered me to do it again.
I made many Kabalos and as you guys probably well know... they don't work. The yetzer hara always chills on the back burner for the first little bit and makes you think that 'you got this' this time and then suddenly I'm back to square one...
I saw the advertisements for GYE in shul and in yeshiva and signed up for the emails which really helped to some extent. (btw great ads but at the time I got turned off because on the website the home page was 'Are you addicted to porn' or something and I definitely was not)
This year before Rosh Hashana instead of making kabalos not to do it again i was mekabel 3 things based on a vort i read during aseres yemei teshuva 
1 i will learn musser every day
2 I will actually read the boosts every day
3 I will actually get help if I really cant figure it out this year
So here i am... The musser helped a lot and so did the boosts.
what used to be a daily thing ( multiple times) now is isolated (every few days and sometimes even weeks) and I generally can get right back up.
But I'm not improving and i haven't really grown stronger because I didn't have any tools.
Now I hope to be able to grow and be in a place where I can feel happy about where I am and that the daily struggles of my mind and my eyes can get under control with the right help and support. until now I just pushed myself hard for days or weeks now I hope to learn how to change my attitude and mindset.
Hope for the best Prepare for the worst
Last Edit: 17 Oct 2021 02:25 by gettingthere9.

Re: growing higher 04 Jun 2021 20:36 #369476

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One more thing.. 
Besides for the general validation, i wanted some insight on two points.
1 is it possible to not feel guilty after acting out to a fault? after reading lots of posts guilt seems to be one of the biggest things. I don't usually have that. Almost like i mastered that too much... Obviously there is some guilt but it never really eats me up... dunno... the only thing i struggle with is the double life which i guess is part of it...
​2 I only started masturbating after i got married. Is that crazy? and it had nothing to do with not being satisfied with my wife. It was a discovery that I always wished for but never knew I could do. if only I knew the consequences and would have known that it was so addictive I would have (maybe) never tried
Anyways Thanx for hearing me out that's all for now
Hope for the best Prepare for the worst
Last Edit: 17 Oct 2021 02:27 by gettingthere9.

Re: growing higher 04 Jun 2021 21:30 #369477

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gettingthere9 wrote on 04 Jun 2021 20:36:
One more thing.. 
Besides for the general validation, i wanted some insight on two points.
1 is it possible to not feel guilty after acting out to a fault? after reading lots of posts guilt seems to be one of the biggest things. I don't usually have that. Almost like i mastered that too much... Obviously there is some guilt but it never really eats me up... dunno... the only thing i struggle with is the double life which i guess is part of it...
​2 I only started masturbating after i got married (around my first kid) is that crazy? and it had nothing to do with not being satisfied with my wife it was a discovery that i always wished for but never knew i could do. if only i knew the consequences and would have known that it was so addictive i would have (maybe) never tried
Anyways Thanx for hearing me out that's all for now

Welcome, I don't have too much time now, but yes it's possible not to feel guilt. Guilt, by the way, can mean many things.

Regardless, welcome and don't be a stranger.

Godspeed
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Re: growing higher 04 Jun 2021 22:38 #369479

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gettingthere9 wrote on 04 Jun 2021 20:36:
One more thing.. 
Besides for the general validation, i wanted some insight on two points.
1 is it possible to not feel guilty after acting out to a fault? after reading lots of posts guilt seems to be one of the biggest things. I don't usually have that. Almost like i mastered that too much... Obviously there is some guilt but it never really eats me up... dunno... the only thing i struggle with is the double life which i guess is part of it...
​2 I only started masturbating after i got married (around my first kid) is that crazy? and it had nothing to do with not being satisfied with my wife it was a discovery that i always wished for but never knew i could do. if only i knew the consequences and would have known that it was so addictive i would have (maybe) never tried
Anyways Thanx for hearing me out that's all for now

Welcome!
Regarding question 2. No it is not crazy, and could very well be discovery.
Aka -  Mischadeish075 Email mischadeish075@gmail.com

Re: growing higher 06 Jun 2021 03:56 #369490

Welcome!

At least for me (and I'm sure many others would agree) posting on the forum was the most helpful thing for dealing with this struggle - so keep in touch!

You said something like "sorry if this is a long post..." but really don't worry about that - we all have been there (and wrote really long posts) and its part of the deal. better to write it out and post it and worst case scenario no one reads it bc its too long than to not write it at all
Think about how good you'll feel if you say no to desire and compare that to how bad you'll feel if you say yes.

Desire is unique in the way that it is never fulfilled -  if you give in the desire comes back even more powerful in just a few days. Telling yourself that its ok because this is really the last time doesn't work because you are just adding new images to your head that will cause future falls.

The Joy of triumph over the yetzer hara is worth the effort it takes to win. It IS worth it! Keep fighting!


My thread: 
Aiming to be better

Feel free to contact me at evedhashem1836@gmail.com
Last Edit: 06 Jun 2021 03:56 by EvedHashem1836.

Re: growing higher 06 Jun 2021 04:46 #369494

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Welcome!
I am so happy to have you here!

I think I also didn't feel too guilty when I would act out, and it wouldn't eat me up either. 

Stay connected and keep on posting!

Looking forward to hearing from you.
Feel free to contact me happyyid613@gmail.com
My thread

Re: growing higher 06 Jun 2021 04:51 #369496

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BH still clean day 9

(I am going to try writing things that are on my mind. Nothing specific, just to unload i guess.)

I have gotten this far before many times and i know that its really gonna get harder as i get further.

I'm really trying to change my attitude to the whole thing so that when the goings get rough i will be able to withstand. I need to take it day by day as well as look at the 90 day challange for motivation. I wrote in my first post (and maybe there is an official term for this...) that sometimes I feel that the YH leaves me alone for a bit and makes me think that I got this... and somehow it just comes up every time and he always gets me in the end...

That's something that I'm afraid of...




And my mind... its a really scary place to live inside sometimes...

I live there all day and sometimes there are a lot of uninvited guests...

I hate them but they always come back...
Hope for the best Prepare for the worst
Last Edit: 06 Jun 2021 04:51 by gettingthere9.

Re: growing higher 06 Jun 2021 06:44 #369500

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gettingthere9 wrote on 04 Jun 2021 20:24:
So a little about myself...
Sorry if this is a really long post but this is the first time really i am sharing anything about my struggles with anyone so i am trying to write this all in one sitting.
i learn Lakewood I am married and have two kids all amazing and wonderful. I have been struggling with masturbation for a few years and have had different tekufos where i was watching movies and had a pretty much unfiltered phone.
I come from a pretty sheltered background and never knew how to really act out before i got married and never really tried.
​I definitely fantasized about it (a lot)...
I was (and still am) a really good boy and always struggled with the good me and the bad me. I thought during high school that maybe i really had it much harder than anyone else (like that was my tafkid in this world type...) and others had an easier time.
Anyways i got rid of my smartphone by one of the asifos and committed to being better at watching my eyes but soon realized that my mind was just as much of the problem as i was fantasizing all day.
Seems that the imagination can bring you much further with real frum girls somehow...
Obviously when i had easy access to the internet there was a completely different issue but now i was looking around much more and i guess trying harder to find stuff (cuz it wasn't easy anymore).
Lots more to say... anyways i never watched porn ever. and never acted out at this point.
After i got married I kind of realized that i could do it on my own... 
Then one day i tried it...
and in all went downhill from there...
I never heard it talked about ever(I think i can confidently say EVER). I knew it was 'wrong' i knew it was probably assur but nothing else and i didnt know that it would be something i would be dealing with for a long long time... I didnt know any consequences at all. I didnt even try to stop in the beginning.
The day i tried to stop was when i realized that i had a big problem... 
I tried and tried.... and got very frustrated that i couldn't stop and something always triggered me to do it again.
I made many Kabalos and as you guys probably well know... they dont work. The yetzer hara always chills on the back burner for the first little bit and makes you think that 'you got this' this time and then suddenly i'm back to square one...
I saw the advertisements for GYE in shul and in yeshiva and signed up for the emails which really helped to some extent. (btw great ads but at the time i got turned off on the website cuz the home page was 'Are you addicted to porn' or something and i definitely was not)
This year before Rosh Hashana instead of making kabalos not to do it again i was mekabel 3 things based on a vort i read during aseres yemei teshuva (maybe for a dif time)
1 i will learn musser every day
2 I will actually rad the boosts every day
3 I will actually get help if i really cant figure it out this year
So here i am... The musser helped a lot and so did the boosts.
what used to be a daily thing ( multiple times) now is isolated (every few weeks) and i generally act out only once and can get right back up.
But i'm not improving and i haven't really grown stronger because i didn't have any tools.
Now i hope to be able to grow and be in  a place where i can feel happy about where i am and that the daily struggles of my mind and my eyes can get under control with the right help and support. until now i just pushed myself hard for days or weeks now i hope to learn how to change my attitude and mindset.

Wow, sounds like me!

Although we each have our own stories, I relate to a lot of what you wrote. Learning in Yeshiva while looking at garbage and masturbating is a killer for mental and emotional health. It feels so hypocritical, it makes me crazy.

Also, the way this topic is portrayed in Yeshiva is not conducive to opening up about it and the isolation, I think, is the most difficult part of it. At least where I was, they tried to freak the living daylights out of us, all the while, only hinting to what they were referring to. No one offered to speak with us if we had an issue, and none of us would speak up, because we didn't want to be looked at as reshaim. Whatever, not the time now for blaming.

90 days helps with rewiring the brain and for motivation to get started but it's not the ultimate goal. The goal is to become a different person. It helps to make a list of all the pros and cons of acting out versus being free, really being honest (it does feel good, it does relieve stress, at least temporarily etc.). Write down long term versus short term pleasure. 

Another point to ponder is, what would be if there would be no issur in the Torah to masturbate and fantasize? Is this just a Torah and G-d thing or is it affecting your life in other ways?

Either way, thanks for sharing and keep on posting, and most of all, never give up! You may not get it on the first try, most don't but if you stick with us, you will succeed with Hashem's help.

All the best,
Wilnevergiveup
Check out My Thread and The Truth

(עשה רצונו כרצונך (אבות,ב:ד

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Re: growing higher 06 Jun 2021 14:34 #369509

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In response to "is it possible to not feel guilty after acting out to a fault?" 

Healthy “guilt” is important. As the Nesivos Shalom writes in Parshas Noach, the guilty feelings we have are a gift from Hashem that come from the inherent good inside every Jew. Indeed, he writes, a Jew who does not have these feelings anymore, no longer has much hope.

A person who gives in to the Yetzer Hara only because the Yetzer hara has tempted him strongly and he can't hold back, is not "bad' in essence. With sincere Teshuvah, Hashem will forgive him. But if one doesn't feel guilt anymore, that means that the bad has taken him over totally and there is little hope.

The Nesivos Shalom ends by saying that “guilt” is actually a Tikkun for every Jew to be able to break free of the bad. Even when one falls, they should make sure that the fall does not become part of their essence. By continuing to hold on to Hashem and feeling guilty when we are far from Him, then even in the case of the worst sins chas veshalom, we still have hope and will be forgiven.

There’s a simple test we can do to know whether we are being motivated by healthy guilt/regret or by shame/despair. If we see that we want to get right back up and find ways to strengthen ourselves again, then it’s a sign that our “bad” feelings are those of healthy guilt and positive regret. If, however, we feel that we just want to give up, then it’s a sure sign that we are experiencing despair and shame, and we must quickly find a way out of these harmful feelings before they lead us to a vicious cycle of continued falls.

"If I am not for myself, who will be for me? But if I am only for myself, who am I? If not now, when?"
feel free to reach out @  ahavayirah@gmail.com

Re: growing higher 06 Jun 2021 18:17 #369520

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DavidT wrote on 06 Jun 2021 14:34:


There’s a simple test we can do to know whether we are being motivated by healthy guilt/regret or by shame/despair. If we see that we want to get right back up and find ways to strengthen ourselves again, then it’s a sign that our “bad” feelings are those of healthy guilt and positive regret. If, however, we feel that we just want to give up, then it’s a sure sign that we are experiencing despair and shame, and we must quickly find a way out of these harmful feelings before they lead us to a vicious cycle of continued falls.


So I guess I do have guilt...

I think I mean that every time I act out I tell myself that Hashem wants me to get up and then I really am usually able to forget about it... as if I have 2 ppl inside of me and i left the other guy behind.

I know that one of the big things is dealing with the guilt.

I have heard so many speeches about guilt and not throwing in the towel.

 So the question is, could it be that i have basically resigned to the fact that I will act out and and it doesn't bother me...
Yes I do want to get better and I'm not giving up... That's why I'm here... maybe i just never had real accountability...

Is it a good thing that I can get up and move on or have I taken it too far?

Hope for the best Prepare for the worst

Re: growing higher 06 Jun 2021 18:34 #369523

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It is clear from various places in Chazal that we didn't always have free will in the past..

To quote Rav Shlomo Wolbe, [i]zt"l[/i]]: The great Jewish philosophers established bechira as the cornerstone for the whole Torah.... But from this resulted a common misperception that all people actively choose their every act and every decision. This is a grievous error. (Alei Schur, Vol. 1, p. 156)

What, then, is bechira?  Rav Eliyahu Dessler z"l (Michtav MeEliyahu, Vol. 1, pp. 111-116).describes how the "nekudas habechirah - the point of free choice" is different for different people and in different situations. He explains that bechira is not a theoretical concept that can be applied to any circumstance where a person can hypothetically choose between two options. Rather, it only applies to moral conflicts where the two opposing forces are of approximately equal strength, the person is aware of the internal conflict, and he makes a conscious decision in one direction. When a person does something over which he does not experience conscious conflict, or if the compelling force on one side is significantly stronger than the other, the fact that he is theoretically able to decide either way does not qualify his act as an expression of bechira.

Once we understand that we didn't always have free will in the past, we will prevent the guilt from dragging us down into a vicious cycle of despair and continued falls. And guilt can be even more dangerous than the falls.

But when we talk about the present moment, we can never know how much free will we have and we must always try our very best.

"If I am not for myself, who will be for me? But if I am only for myself, who am I? If not now, when?"
feel free to reach out @  ahavayirah@gmail.com

Re: growing higher 07 Jun 2021 04:50 #369550

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Sorry I'm late to the party. I'll just grab a butterbeer and have a seat.
gettingthere9 wrote on 04 Jun 2021 20:24:

I saw the advertisements for GYE in shul and in yeshiva and signed up for the emails which really helped to some extent. (btw great ads but at the time i got turned off on the website cuz the home page was 'Are you addicted to porn' or something and i definitely was not)



Would you suggest they change the home page to read "Are you addicted to porn or masturbation?"
Something tells me that's not going to fly (unlike a Golden Snitch)...

Kidding aside, welcome. Hope you learn a few things here that may help you.

Moish
Last Edit: 07 Jun 2021 04:51 by bm263.

Re: growing higher 07 Jun 2021 19:55 #369585

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10 days. Pretty good so far...
I think that I am thinking about this too much...
Its literally on my mind all day (in a good way)
I'm thinking about how good I will feel if I can have the power to control...
I'm thinking how much better my life is going to be when I can actually get rid of all the skeletons...
And the little guests in my brain... (at least for the most part)
I'm not sure its healthy to think about it so much but either way... better than a lot of other things...
Hope for the best Prepare for the worst
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