Hi,

I feel for you and I wish I could help you. I can relate to what you wrote, "I know my acting out is destructive and only leads to pain, yet I have continued acting out relentlessly for all of my adult life." This is true for me as well, and my adult life = 40-50 years. The good news is that I am currently doing much much better. I am far from perfect, but B"H my life is not the misery that it was for decades. I cannot speak about the 12 steps, but I can speak about certain concepts that are included in the 12 steps program and are also found in Torah and Mussar sources.

1. We need to realize that Hashem (our higher power) is omnipotent and can help us out of any dead-end situations.

2. Hashem wants us to do our part, and He will decide when to help us and how. Our job is not to succeed in our mission - our job is to never give up and to keep trying to do His will as best as we can.

3. We need to pray daily to Hashem, and admit that we need His help in this matter as in all matters.

4. We need to avoid all triggers. Each person knows his issues, and needs to make fences and/or burn bridges to avoid slipping, which inevitably leads to falling.

5. We need to avoid falling into despair. Which means we need to forget about the past and not worry about the future. We have the ability to imagine (as Reb Nachman says) that today is the only day we have, and we will do everything to make it a perfect day.

6. We need to come to terms with the fact that 'we have this issue', and - one way or another - it will leave its mark on us for the rest of our lives. So, if/when we slip/fall, we need not get all bent out of shape. Instead we need to accept that this is our lot in life - and we simply need to continue working on this issue.

7. As the Baal HaTanya writes: Just as a wrestler cannot succeed if he proceeds with laziness and sadness, so to in our mission, we need to proceed with alacrity and happiness. After all, this is our Avodas Hashem - let's do it with joy.

Hatzlacha

MT

Beautifully written, MT!

Thanks!

Thanks MT!!!

Gevaldiga post!!!

Keep em coming!!!

Very dear GoodSoul, wow , you are living a tough life out there. For more than a decade you have done all sorts of ways to get sober and things had not change much . I was curious about something you wrote that you know your acting out is destructive and only leads to pain;i was wondering if you ever felt a day when you "hit bottom" ? And hitting bottom means really bad . How manageable your life is ? Do you have any relatives that are also suffering with you or because of you ? Wishing you strength and success in the actions you do for your sobriety.

The first time I engaged in a sexually explicit chat online I felt like I hit bottom. The first time I have phone sex I felt like I hit bottom. The first time I video chatted I felt like I hit bottom. The first time I met someone in person I felt like I hit bottom. The first time I acted out with someone in person I felt like I hit bottom. And so on and so on. They were all really bad. They were all bottoms. But there is always a lower bottom that can be reached. Always.

I don't know what manageable means. I seem to function on a fairly high level most of the time, meaning I can keep up with my responsibilities, but I am not happy with my life and my acting out even if I can "get away with it".

I don't know of any relatives who are addicts, and none suffer directly as a result of my addiction. I am not married.

GoodSoul i posted some things to you but they got erased , please keep on posting; looking forward !

Hi GoodSoul, Keep posting! Keep growing!

You brought a thought to my mind and it's helping me greatly. We discussed a little about going to any lengths necessary. Before I got into the bit of recovery that I have, I was doing everything to manage my life and my disease so that I could act out and still function. Basically I was going to any lengths to act out and still have a manageable life. So going to any lengths means to me, managing my life. Only then I was managing my life, so I could continue to act out. I was going to any lengths necessary to act out and if that meant keeping my life manageable so I could face myself, then that's what I did. Now I'm doing the opposite. I'm managing my life in a way that I can have sobriety, with Hashem's help. So when we say our life is manageable, what are we really saying? I was saying, I can masturbate and still manage my life. I still made it through graduate school, I'm married with children who love me B"H, I earn a living etc etc and I can still act out. We may as well say B"H after. We may as well say B"H my life is manageable so I can masturbate. You know now that I think about it, I never really gave up masturbating, I just started managing my life around sobriety. And that we can be happy to say B"h to.

GoodSoul wrote:


I don't know what I will add, but I did not feel 'rock bottom' the first time I engaged in those stuff. 'rock bottom' to me was only felt durin' recovery times.

Just sayin'....

b'hatzlachah

I always wonder why people seek answers in the topic forum where people like me are liable to chime in with their ego filled stuff that may help or may hurt, when there is a better way. They can go to the Q&A section, the other sections here, SKEPS tips, chizuk, Daily Dose of Dov, maybe use all the tools here etc. The real question I should be asking myself, is why I just don't refer people there for the answers. And the answer is I have a big ego. So maybe better I just cut and paste from the Daily Dose. Here it is:

Sick of the "Nuclear Reset Button"
Dov wrote that this post is particularly precious to him

by Dov (See all authors)
Tehillim, kedusha, and even the 12 steps with meetings, sponsors, written stepwork, and regular phone calls whenever in trouble, etc - none of them work at all if we still do not really need to stop.

See, right after we masturbate, everybody wishes they'd stop! So us frum guys suffer so much, struggle so hard, and fight tooth-and-nail (all l'Shem Shomayim, of course). But we just don't feel right, do we?

There is only one surefire way we all know to bring our dirty, yucky, painful selves close to Hashem - really honestly close:

masturbate again!

Within a minute or so we find that we are dropped cold out of lust like a rock. Brought to our humble, reeling, holy senses again like the worst cold shower in the world. It's horrible five minutes later. We become frantic to finally fly right, despondent, ready to reach out like never before..."I'll do anything to quit and not fall the next time!" See? We are brought back to our senses! We wanted nudes five minutes ago - and now, all we really want is sweet tahara! Because we masturbated and 'got it over already'.

It works every time. It's the nuclear reset button, isn't it?

After our painfully intense 'zera levatola', life and avodas Hashem suddenly and painfully make sense again. Sure we are farther away - but at least we are in the game again! ...or so we think. The sex obsession is blown out of us, gone. Holiness is again in view, at least. Menucha...

...for about a day (maybe)

Maybe I became willing to start recovery because I got tired of reset buttons, that's all? While we are flaming addicts, there eventually comes a point at which we realize that in order for us to live successfully we do not really need to give in and end the game by masturbating (again) so that we return to our holy senses. This is a total shock to a frum porn and sex addict.

We always saw our lusting, fantasy, and sex-with-self as the opposite of our avodas Hashem...and surely, the lusting and the fantasy always are. But not so the zera levatola! So often we held our breath, counting the days till....till it built up to a crescendo of crushing tension. Then we used the good old nuclear reset button - ending the game. We just couldn't take it any more. How long can you hold your breath? Eventually, everyone who is holding their breath needs to come up for air! So we fall, R"l. "It's Game Over, I guess," the poor guy says.

But it's not really ending the game at all! It's just starting a new game!

Anybody here who has ever been addicted to computer games knows exactly what I mean, here, by "GAME OVER" just being a reset button. Think it over.

Dear Good Soul,

I've tried to write a response here a few times but for some reason there was a bug and it was not working. I hope that this time it will work.

I know and understand your pain. Your suffering. I am very much like you. I went into chatrooms when I was in high school and I had phonesex for the first time when I was almost 17. I must have met 50 women online before I was married, hooked up with most of them. The first time I was intimate with a woman (all the way) I was 23 and she was a 37 year old married woman.

When I got married things didn't get much better. In fact, they got worse. I don't want to go into details just because I'm afraid I'll start writing and this won't post again, but I've been with married, unmarried women, and I've paid for things, if you catch my drift.

Like you, I've been to numerous therapists and it was unhelpful every single time. I've paid so much money to them, it's ridiculous, and it's been years.

I'm an addict. I've always been an addict. I haven't gone to SA, I've done a little work here, but I can't say I know as much about it as you do or as anyone else here.

But it's been 9 days for me now, the longest streak I've had in years. And I can attribute it to a few things.

First, I never gave up. I kept on trying, failure after failure and I never gave up. Many times I tried but for some reason Hashem was good to me and still kept me here. The same goes for you. Don't ever, ever give up.

Second, I come to this site every day. I read something, talk to someone, do something to reach out because if I stay in my own little bubble I'm doomed.

Third, I surround myself intensely with positivity. All the time. I am intense about this. I actually listen to Joel Osteen almost every day and his words really give me encouragement, they help me to understand that Gd is in control and that He loves me.

I must tell you, this past week and a half has been excruciating, exhilarating, painful, amazing, and everything all in one. But I've never felt closer to Hashem and I've never had as much appreciation for Hashem and all that He does than I do right now. If you need to reach out, please send me a message and know that I'm here for you. We are all here for you. And we love you.

Have a good shabbos.

wow ur amazing
never to give up
wish we would have your Koach
may hashem be with u, with us and 1 day yes 1 day will be see iy"h the light

Hey, Moshe

Thanks for the share
Continued hatzlachah

What have you been doin' to recover?
Why haven't you gone to SA?

Just curious....

b'hatzlachah onward

Nice conversation we are having here. Where is GoodSoul though?

I am here and have read everyone's responses, which I appreciate. I have not managed to maintain any significant length of sobriety during this time or stay free from lust for very long.

And GS, what are you doin' about that?
We are here for you.