i am only talking to myself - i have no right to tell anyone anything.
ok, u dont have to be so medakdek in my words - by recovery i mean ANY type of recovery.and by religious i also mean G-dly.
but all this only helps so far as I can learn to surrender my desires to what G-d says.u bet recovery is G-d based.it better be - as Dov says, if we rely on our own selves, we're going to get into trouble. I've been around here about 7 years, collecting wisdom as I go along. I was on dov's call for a year, and heard the wonderful things he had to say.and one of them was:'DONT RELY ON YOUR OWN THINKING!' that's what got u here in the 1st place! it happens to be a posuk in mishle - 'v'el binascha al tisha'ayn'. so we better rely on something outside of ourselves - and it HAS to be G-d.because another person also has our challenges.we have to listen to what G-d tells us to do because we trust that He will not lead us astray.He knows what's good for us - period the end.and it doesn't matter how much gemara u know - if u can't surrender, what good is it? how do i know this? because when i first came to GYE 7 years ago, i saw talmidey chachamim on this site that had the same challenges that I did.IMAGINE! a guy that knew shas backwards has the same challenges as me! or as someone who doesn't know the aleph-bays (that's not me).that guy who doesnt know the aleph-bays can have better recovery than the guy who knows every rashi and tosfos and has them on his fingertips! he just has to be wilimg to surrender his bodily desires to what G-d says.i hope that talmid chacham can surrender his bodily desires too.but I saw on GYE that that's not always the case.it says in the beginning of mesilas yesharim - when are you going to stop learnng gemara and do a cheshbon hanefesh and become a REAL jew? (dont take this the wrong way - i'm sure r' luzzato wanted u to know gemara too - but u get his idea). we better believe that recovery is religion based - what else is there?

jack

Hashivalisesonyishecho wrote:


Huh?

What your mind can grasp is jokes? What are you referring to?

The guys here were joking around, I had a rather serious post to throw in - but I love joking around even more - so I just wrote, "Now back to the jokes!", cuz joking around is fantastic thing to do. Particularly when things are heavy, heavy, heavy. I am a prankster, chaver. But you seem to have taken something out of context and your post is hard to understand. So please clarify. If you want to vent to me in specific, you can call or email me!

Now really! Back to the jokes!!

Wow! What a misunderstanding if there ever was one. As it says in Mishlay
אל תצא לריב מהר
Dov, I apologise to you. It shows you where I'm at.

I'm not deleting my post because let it be seen how wrong a person can be when he thinks he sees it so clearly and he thinks he is so right.

Wow, the human limitation, mine specifically.

jack wrote:


Please try to find a post called "The Nuclear Reset Button." If you can't search it easily here, you can probably find it with help from a guy here who goes by "Gibbor120"

It may start to shed some light on the big topic you are beginning to discuss.

Hatzlocha, man

Gotta run!

- Dov

Hashivalisesonyishecho wrote:


I love you. Plain and simple. And thanks for trying to help me. I hope you succeed where others have failed, seriously.

Later, chaver...

Dov wrote:


Big of you to me maavir al midosov.
From Mishlay again
יתר מרעהו צדיק

Hashivalisesonyishecho wrote:


I hope you did not get offended by Dov's post.
He is trying to make a point; he loves you guys very much and wants the best for us.
He is the prototype of the sexaholic that hit rock bottom , really hard,and through real honesty and willingness embraced Sexaholics Anonymous two decades ago and is doing the program of twelve steps כנתינתה מהר סיני at its purest. Sometimes many of us either are not addicts to sex-lust or we are but try to circumvent the real honest way to do it because it takes a lot of guts from us to do it right. The first question we have to ask ourselves is "can we live in a manageable way" or "is my life manageable". Can i live a day, a week,a month without the threat that lures behind my back that i will "act out". Can i dont act out?
If i can then my life is manageable. if i can not, not act out, then my life is UNMANAGEABLE.
The first of the 12 steps says "We admitted we were powerless over alcohol or lust or sex or porn or M or etc.,- we admittted that our lives were UNMANAGEABLE."
So the 12 steps were designed for people whose lives are UNMANAGEABLE. I could not live my entire life without recurring to M.And without the need to gaze at woman or fantasize about them. That is where my life was NOT MANAGEABLE so i needed to do the 12 steps. Do i go to live meetings ? No . Is that good ? i am not sure . Do i want to go ? Yes. Am i afraid to go ? You bet i am . Am in danger of falling ? Yes i am . If i would go to live meetings , do i reduce the chances to fall ? Definitely !!. I would not in your place make a fuss about Dov's style of talking. I would pay attention to the message with real humility.

Sorry it took me long to write my post i see that Dov already clarified his words.

Please try to find a post called "The Nuclear Reset Button." If you can't search it easily here, you can probably find it with help from a guy here who goes by "Gibbor120"

It may start to shed some light on the big topic you are beginning to discuss.

dearest dov, i dont really see how this relates to what i said. if u are criticizing me, that's fine - that's how we reach the truth.it's called the talmudic method.but i still see it the way i said it unless i can be convinced that i'm wrong.

check out the "dov quotes" link in my signature. Dov is sometimes misunderstood as being critical. He is really nothing of the sort. He is just has lots of experience with hundreds of addicts including himself! He tries to help clarify some of the common mistakes and confusion. Sometimes, the water gets muddier rather than clearer. Dov can be hard to decipher sometimes.

do u know what he means here? please tell. why are my words here the nuclear reset button? and besides, i dont mind being criticized, if truth will come out.and besides again, i met dov.for what he's doing he should get the nobel prize for...well, if it doesnt exist yet, they should invent one just for him.

I'm not sure why he referred you to the nuclear reset button post.

some might ask - does it really matter if it's religion-based or not? and i say it certainly does - because that will determine how we treat it.if the 12 steps is asking us to pray to G-d, and offer the serenity prayer at the end, which is a plea to G-d, then I say if they are bringing G-d into recovery, they feel it is a religios (ok, spiritual) issue.and i say that's good.why does the founder of this website always say to us - 'get closer to Hashem'? isn't that religious? it might not have STARTED with rebelling against Hashem, but i'm not talking about how it started.none of the strugglers on this forum, I am absolutely convinced, started their addiction to rebel against Hashem. maybe this is what you mean when you say it's not a religious issue.but NOW, when we are trying to recover, way back then they incredibly understood that you MUST bring G-d into your recovery.there's no other way.like i said above, you need the group support from humans in the same boat, but that doesn't mean we remove G-d from the picture.

It was rebelling because of my parents,my friends,my wife , my lot in life , my money (or lack of it),my health , my kids , my in-laws, the IRS in short yes it was REBELLING AGAINST HASHEM ; plain and honest.
And about what you are delving now (i am not so sure), in a very generalist definition, religion(mitzvos) we do with our body , spirituality with our mind ( or חובות הלבבות ).

[quote="newaction" post=261510]Hashivalisesonyishecho wrote:

If I can find this post when I have the time I will BN put a link to it on my signature. I could have written every word myself. It is exactly about me and where I am. Thanks NewAction.