Before I was in any kind of recovery, I had to make clear boundaries regarding my employees. I knew that any issue would be a disaster. What I did was follow whatever the halacha was regarding speaking to female employees. Although this didn't help my fantasies perfectly, I think it helped set boundaries in their mind as well. So I guess that's the minimum to do.

Hashivalisesonyishecho wrote:


I hope the oilem's judgement doesn't matter. Sof maiseh, only what you come to believe or know, is what matters. As they told us: "im ein ani mi, mi li?"

The judgement regarding all I wrote is not whether it is a sefer says it is the way it should be, whether sources in Chaza"l would agree about the subject in general terms that describe the Torah's approach to the topic. No, that's not what Hashem cares about, at all. The thing that matters is whether it is the truth about you or me right now.

I am not accusing you of anything, but usually what happens in these 'Torah-based' discussions is that people hide behind what should be, instead of allowing acceptance of what is with them. As though admitting that they are obsessed with her because they adore what she's got is an issur of some kind! Heh. It's really just shame and embarrassment, that's all. No bigggie. Accepting the truth is not a danger to avodas Hashem. It never is. It's actually the only way to start it.

And don't worry - accepting what is, is not the end of the matter. The Torah is the only end of the matter.

When Chaza"l say Derech Eretz kodma laTorah, they also mean self-honesty is precious and good - especially if the truth about me or you is "against" the Torah. Honesty about that truth actually converts it to Torah. It is the core of the real vidui that sforim tell us switches 'midas hadin to midas harachamim'. Sefl-honesty. Sefl-honesty that is against all the sforim and the Torah - the truth about how we feel and what our motives are right now. It opens us to real avodas Hashem. It is also how dinnim are 'nimtakim b'shorshom', in a respect. This honesty thing is very big stuff, indeed.

Like the Kotzker put it, on the words: "Emess m'eretz titzmoch". "Where exactly does the Emess grow? From the exact spot that the sheker is buried."

Hope you hear me. This is not a debate. It's not about the Torah or how things should be or what we should believe as yidden. It's all and only about you and me and where we are really holding right now. That's what He wants. Liba - my heart right now, sick and dirty as it may be. My real heart...not the deepest heart that is pure and good. That heart He always had and sees! And as perfect as it is, it does us no good.

He wants the truth right now about me and you. Derech Eretz. Only then, does Torah become of real value.

I am in need of clarity. As I write, I will probably become clearer, and certainly by some clarity offered by the wonderful chaverim here.

I am presently in a mode of being able to be in the airport, a non frum hotel at this time of year, Manhattan etc. and not look where I shouldn't and not have a problem. But I have a non Jewish female worker whom I recently employed who poses an issue. She seems like a decent person, does good work, and I like her personality. If this was a man, all would be wonderful. I would give bonuses and praise his work as appropriate. If whenever I have such an issue I just create an Syag and and Issur, and I would say that I simply may not employ this woman, I'm afraid that the abundance of issurim would eventually not hold up and I would eventually break a syag and then break all rules chas vesholom. I want to be able to like this worker as a worker and even as a person without having bad thoughts. When she does a good job an something, I would like to be able to praise her without it having any 'other' meaning. Is this possible?

Even if it is possible, is having her employed a good idea or even mutar?

Remember the gemarah? If there are 2 ways to go. One way is a possible tayva and 1 is not. If the person takes the way with the possible tayva and passes the nisayon. Is he not still called a rasha for needlessly putting himself in tayva's way?
There must be good male workers. Here there is already a tayva for her.

Sounds like "head for the hills" and replace the woman employee.

It's a tough test though because she is a competent worker.

Cords, good bumpin'!

Hashivalisesonyishecho wrote:


Gee thanks!
I bump it for one reason, and all these guys do is go back to the female launderer sellin' her wares in the shuk when the male from the hills could get praised if he wasn't a goy!?

I'll take my discussion elsewhere.