hello everyone out there. and in here.
i have been put under friendly pressure to write more about my struggle. i hereby cave in ( me? are you kidding)
before i write my story, a want to thank all the people who viewed my post on "time for debate" and those who have taken time to chat with me. i thank all those of whom i had a geshmake time, and also those who criticize me or my views, (criticism is healthy. keep it up.) that's ok, i can take it. i have thick skin. maybe too thick, that is for you to decide. either way i love you all.

my addiction began with a combination of factors. i had to sell my house. my new business, which had every reason to work, (according to my wife- hey i have to blame someone-) went down the drain. i had to commute every day to work. and i have this computer totally free from a friend, with internet- which i got for business reasons. business was gone. internet wasn't. i'm not so stupid ( i know what you're thinking about this) so i do a little surfing. a had a good filter so i didn't get into trouble right away, but something clicked in my mind internet= entertainment.
quite amazing all the info at your fingers. my favorite then was aish- great site.
then the next step someone showed me how to get wifi from different public places.
very cool free net. and my wife isn't peering over my shoulder to see what i'm doing.(they are good at that BH) and then i got a device that could pick up wifi from a mile away. but essentially still a good boy. next step. movies. i haven't watched for years, except now and then (on the plane, grandma's etc.) i discovered that without spending a dime, you can download and/or watch a nice movie. how relaxing. now i know that there are all types reading this, so i don't know if you personally can relate, but movies are gripping, and send the adrenaline rush to the head, (ok If it is a good one.) of course i have responsibilites, but i made thursday night movie night, and all friday kvetch day to my wife about my hard! week (beloney). so i settled for shorter clips. i found that my attention was drawn to what a lot of men pay attention to. women. i found that there was a pull of entertainment in a exciting way, that made the adrenalin rush more than movies. you can call it lust taavah, but the reason it is a little different was that i wasn't looking to masturbate only to get a fix of adrenalin. i guess everyone is a little different. for about a year of this go on, i had time when tried to cut back or stop for whole weeks- but it always came back with a vengeance. it is like a backward hora- one step forward and two back. somehow gye came up. (Hashem sent it), i've been off all entertainment sites for 2 weeks now and i have a picture block- so when i get the news- and don't get the junk. being on gye has saved me. already i see a lot of siatta dishmaya. just one catch, i like to preach to others. my weakness. thanks again for putting up with me.
your friend lavi

wow lavi. you did it. does it make you feel better?
I can really relate to your downward spiral. That happened to me to a certain degree. although i sunk lower than you i think.
Gye has really woken me up and help me pick myself back up to previous levels. not where i was before i got the internet but getting there slowly one day at a time.
and as far as preaching goes it is about time we got a preacher here on the forums.

Hi Lavi,

Thank you for your honest post. It helps us gain a picture of who you are and shows us how we can relate to you.

I also had a business that didn't do so well, and I know how stressful that can be. You also showed how most people don't get neck deep into this stuff before dipping their toes in. It's usually progressive - It starts with innocent things, comics, movies, and then when that wears off and it's not exciting enough, we look for more, "better" stuff.

Boruch Hashem, you're here now and you're open to receiving help from others who have been where you are. We're looking forward to getting to know you better and growing alongside you!

Thank you lavi!!

I can for sure relate to the movie sentiment, by the grace of Hashem I'm 11 days off movies!!!

You didn't mention porn, so I will assume that that isn't your problem, but even with porn, which you would for sure call lust, my urge is for the high feeling as well. Masturbation usually follows just because that's the nature of it, but without porn or a really really good fantasy, I don't masturbate. (you didn't mention if you do/did or don't masturbate after those watching bouts)

BH you haven't been doing this that long, compared to most of the others here who close to or over a decade(s)!! It is very possible that you just have a normal taava, not the emotional connection and dependency that I (and others) feel.

Many, if not most, of us have tried everything in the Jewish and non-jewish books....Torah, Tefilah, Mikvah, crying, laughing, singing, dancing, sleeping, etc. nothing helped, it was sort of obvious that there was something bigger going on.

So you're still in the beginning, two weeks....compared to the past year....I wouldn't set my bets on something that only has two weeks experience.

So, stick around, log your progress, and be a part of (not on top of) the clan!!!

KOT brother!!

thanks clan for your feedback.
i don't feel like my post made me feel any better other than the fact that it is fun and supportive to communicate. but that's ok.
pidaini- it may be a hard job where to draw the line between taavah to habit to addiction, and in each of these, there are levels. but i think that my inability to shrug it off and my repeated return of the urge isn't a passing taavah. especially if one stays up hours on end chasing it and one feels totally absorbed in it. and this kind of habit/addiction can easily eat up the rest of ones life. and no i didn't masturbate, but does that make so much of a difference?

I don't think a repeated urge means anything, as long as anyone is human he will have urges and taavos.

I think that the main question is what have you tried doing to stop and what hasn't worked. I think that's the only way to really know where one is at. Then again, what do I know?

It doesn't make so much of a difference, just in terms of how serious the situation is. You wouldn't tell someone who walks down the street and looks at women sometimes to join GYE, would you? and you wouldn't tell someone who's in and out of jail for sexual assaults that GYE is enough for them, would you? So there is certainly a difference, not that much, but a difference.

So what are you doing so differently now? Are the urges gone?

dear pidaini
you wrote I don't think a repeated urge means anything, as long as anyone is human he will have urges and taavos.
i wrote " especially if one stays up hours on end chasing it and one feels totally absorbed in it." it looks like i have to explain this. i think the taava transforms into a habit/addiction, when it begins to have more frequency and more intense pulls
Normally urges which come and go now and then, could be considered normal or non addictive (yet). since i felt a need every night to feel the thrill, i have considered myself an addict. clear?

on how to measure where one is at. my humble opinion. if one sees that he is having longer periods without falling it is a good indication. but like the oilam says, avoid triggers, because some parts of recovering involve a detour, that is instead of directly fighting, finding roundabout ways of not being in a vulnerable position, even if doesn't solve the heart of the problem, the more you can distant any encounter is progress.
What works for me- davening, learning extended periods of time- these all to fill up my heart and to keeping away from the negative- i post on gye, exercise, have a image blocker in computer.
What is scary to me is that if not for gye, all the above didn't work.
your friend lavi

I'm sorry, I forgot to mention that the second point is certainly something to take into consideration. slicha.

I don't find needing GYE to be scary, I love it!!! It is so geshamk!!

What is it that GYE gives you that makes all the other things work?

Thank you Lavi for telling us about yourself. It really makes a contribution to the forum which helps so many people.

I wonder how you understand the opening words of the White Book. do they resonate with you at all?

The Problem.

Many of us felt inadaquate, unworthy, alone and afraid. Our insides never matched what we saw on the outsides of others.

Early on, we came to feel disconnected - from parents, from peers, from ourselves. We tuned out with fantasy and masturbation. We plugged in by drinking in the pictures, the images, and pursuing the objects of our fantasies.



For me lust is not the problem. The difficulties and stresses of regular life are the problem and lust is my solution to that problem.

The exact nature of my acting out is not as important as what I'm trying to accomplish by acting out and why.

thanks doc

you got me to read a few pages in the white book.

the part you quoted doesn't hit home with me, but page 35 and 36 does.

b'hatzlachah to all

dear pidaini
what i meant was that it was just being involved in gye, that pushed me over the hill is scary. why?. Because it shows that even if i am fighting the yetzer at all kinds of deep levels like torah tefilla and emunah etc. it is the simple reaching out and getting in touch with others that did the trick so far. look, i don't look down at social needs of anybody, but to be helped in such a way because i'm chatting to people who i never met or probably meet, and this pushes me over!!! why?

dear watson
i have a lot to say about what you sent me, (is that a maaleh???)
i am going to put it together properly and then post it.
your friend lavi

dear watson
i was going through one of the posts, and i saw an idea mentioned by talmidchaim and others, it was exactly this idea i wanted to elaborate, but now i don't have to, rather i will get to the point how my situation was effected.
as i mentioned i was/am going through a rough time finanicially and this brings me to a situation where my whole life was in balance, because money matters can take people to all kinds of situations,eg. where to live ? what to do? direction of childrens future..etc, people normally like some kind of security and don't appreciate being thrown around like a rag doll.
and since i reached some kind of crisis, (i had to sell my house)(and this is after 100's of hours of davening and hoping for salvation from poverty and want(the latter is more dangerous) inside i was ANGRY. when i say inside i mean deep deep, because which adult can logically be angry at Hashem. so the anger takes on a passive aggressiveness that says, ok Hashem have it your way, but don't have ta'anos (demands) on me for acting out. and the rest is history.
in other words one has to be on a high level and it is expected (gulp!) that he makes inner peace with Hashem in order to clear himself totally of any temptation. and since i am not there yet and i daresay that there are others also not there yet, the challenge seem to be on a lower level on finding ways to improve. But i want to make clear that change has to take place on 2 different fronts, 1) trying anything to distance from triggers, situations etc. 2) generally trying to improve ones satisfaction with life in a positive way.
for me i haven't found so much in the 2nd way, my wife has kindly requested of me a few thousand for necessary items for herself (don't start) and i am not in debt only slightly in the minus, and i have enough for the next month b"h, but i have no idea from where i am going to shaf money, (and don't start lecturing me about my responsibilities- just assume that i am doing what i supposed to) and summer is round the corner- this all seems quite a pekel for me. (and even if i'm wrong in my responsibilites- think about it in a theorectial case like this- it can happen.)
so my battle is taking place on the other front-distancing. And i know it may sound like just a band-aid. but i feel tremendously encouraged by the 2 and a half weeks clean and my spiritual strivings has risen dramatically.
your friend lavi.

lavi wrote:


Thank you so much, Lavi, for a very strong and inspiring post.
I have experienced those feelings which you mentioned [quoted above], when facing various challenges in my life.
Most recently I felt that way concerning a major challenge and struggle, [not in the lust field], which I have been going through on and off for quite some time.

I recently made a very strong resolution that "come what may" I will stand strong and not fall into that ditch . Little did I know that Hashem had in mind to test my resolution with.
When I was thrown into a situation which I felt was completely insurmountable, I thought to myself the same exact thing "ok Hashem have it your way, but don't have ta'anos (demands) on me for [failing]".

Unfortunately, in that particular struggle, I cannot apply the "distancing" method, because it involves almost daily situations.

I'm not sure yet, what Hashem expects from me in these situations, * although I realize that if I'm given a test by Hashem, I obviously can pass it,but I did take chizuk from your words, and I'll try to work harder to find the right solution for my challenge.

( * I'm sorry I'm not ready to share the issue publically yet, so i can't expect detailed help from the chevra here, but maybe some general advice and words of chizuk can help].


KUTGW!
And may you have tremendous Siyata Dishmaya in your progress toward full and complete recovery.

Wow. May Hashem b with you!
I can very much relate.

You articulated what's going good on deep in your neshama very well. Having such a clarity is a huge first part to the solution.
I'm curious-did you have the sugya arois so clur before you found gye? Because although I am new here and new to posting, I'm finding that reading others' post alone (and a lot of messaging with Pidaini), have been helping me understand the deep causes behind my issues.

Hatzlacha!