I am not comprehending many points of this discussion.
1. Is there a time when one is faced with a choice: Should I act out or should I have relations with my wife? [Sounds kinda weird for that practicality.]
2. Even if yes, what does he tell his wife? is she part of the equation?
3. One who is a lust addict cannot lust after his wife either. [Many on this site have said that even a non-addict should not lust after his wife, but let's leave that for the moment.]
4. other stuff, but no time now.

Anyway, KOT! and hatzlachah

cordnoy
1. Believe it or not I had such a time and that was what initiated the discussion. It was another one of those mornings that I couldn't get myself to start my day. Only me and my wife were home. She was minding her own business and resting.
Because of my doing nothing, I started with my urges. I was faced with three possibilities. a. go to the bathroom and give in to my urges b. fight them the whole day c. have relations with my wife.

2. Baruch Hashem our intimate life is very strong. It is sometimes enough just to cuddle up in her bed to get her interested enough. sometimes not but on that particular day yes. Sometimes actions speak louder than words. It was obvious to my wife that I was trying to get somewhere, but as far as she knows it is normal for men to have a sexual drive. (I used to think so too, but now I am all confused. )

3. That exactly was the reason that I said it was cheating and the discussion more or less revolved around this exact point. I think that shivisi had the right take, but either way that is the issue that we are arguing about.

4. At your earliest convenience

Thank you for clarifyin'.

as this issue has been beaten up enough on this site in the past 10 months, I will leave it at that.

b'hatzlachah

unanumun wrote:


First I really want to say this again cos I feel like it's the pervasive attitude here on GYE - one does not start slipping just because one's bored or has nothing better to do. Avoiding falls by staying busy is not a recipe for long term sobriety.

Second you forgot about secret option d: surrender. If you surrender you don't have to give in to urges, you don't have to fight and you don't have to use your wife as an extension of your hand.

Just wanted to say I liked She.V.C.'s story.
Una, I read your posts too...

About a week since I posted.
Really feel disconnected from the posting thing (As much as it helped me get to where I am today - 43 days clean.)
I am really forcing myself to post something. (don't know why - maybe I am afraid that if I lose connection I will get back to where I was)
Can't figure out why I feel so disconnected. Maybe I haven't been having such a hard time with the 90 days (No thanks, Hashem - I am not interested in having a harder time)
Perhaps because since I started focusing things were really upped a notch in my marriage. Never had a problem really with Shalom Bayis, but I guess now that I think about it, I must have had somewhat of an emotional mechitza with my wife because of the guilt that I was "cheating " on her by watching porn and masturbating. After making a decision to stop and joining GYE and the 90 days, I sort of felt that I put this aside and the mechitza between us came down. We have really been reconnected reminiscent of shana rishona. (I guess that I didn't have any problem with masturbation in those days, until the kids came along and I was left to my own vices too often.)
But since things are back on track, I feel that my yetzer hara (yes- definately not an addiction - as scary as that is to say here) has come back to normal proportions. I am still a man and still have a yetzer but more normal now.
So where does that leave me? I guess since we are expecting another baby in a few months (somewhere around the 90 day mark - how fitting that would be if i make it there) the tough times will start again then and I will have the opportunity to reassess myself. That is a shtikel nerve racking but I have some time to build myself up and prepare myself for battle. (Or learn how to give in to Hashem and prevent the battle- however the oilam wants to describe what lays ahead)
there-- glad I pushed myself to write this, I feel myself reconnecting a bit. one day at a time. maybe one day i will continue the conversation that I left off with but probably not. thanks anyways to everyone's input.

unanumun wrote:


I think that should have been worded a little differently:
"thanks Hashem very much- that I am not having a harder time!"

shivisi,
Nope, I got it right the first time. I was actually just typing and expressing my thoughts as they came out.
That's how they came out so that's how it is.

I don't think it about gayvah or kavod. I think it is just about knowing people care. That's all.
If no one comments, that is what bothers me.
heck, I have no shortage of kavod.. I don't need kavod from anonymous people. If that't what I needed, I can just go daven in a shul that i don't usually daven in and be certain to get an aliyah or pesicha or something. That would be enough kavod for me.
I do need to feel that I am part of the group. (I am not sure why, but that is how it is. - maybe i need to work on that)
And yeah, I feel like a baby and a loser for expressing that. but who cares? no one knows who I am anyways.
but at least I am continuing to post.

Gee Nothing like a trip to meiron for a bit of a wakeup call.
I noticed something on my way up. Part of what was making me forget about how much of a struggle I have with these things, was the fact that I basically never left my neighborhood. The biggest triggers were mostly tzniyusdike women in the street, maybe the occasional not frum lady that passed by, but they are never so attractive in real life.
On the way up to meiron, I noticed that when the bus passed some billboards that were made to be noticed by men (belashon sagi nahor) that I had a hard time turning away. they caught my attention and my mind started to wander. Thankfully I had prepared for my trip and brought along a sefer so I was able to distract myself fairly easily.
Also my internet has been well filtered lately so I haven't accidentally come across triggering images. well today fore technical reasons the filtered was lowered for a few hours and after I watched a youtube video about the news (for the first time in a few weeks) the suggested vidoes were pretty suggesting and I realized that although i was able to quickly shut the page, my problem still exists.
So in the meantime the message I learned is that I have to be very careful of my filter matzav and before any trips out of the city, I have to prepare myself in advance to deal with triggering advertisements.

what an experience yesterday. I was just sitting around doing nothing again in the morning not being able to start my day. and then... the urge came. not even lust not even triggers, it just came. And to make things worse exactly then I needed the facilities. OY VAY
so I sat there for fifteen minutes debating with myself (or my yetzer harah, i guess) over a game of sudoku. Baruch Hashem I made it through, but it was an interesting debate.
Basically it went
YH: what's the big deal? Just go for it.
ME: but i am on the way to 90 days, chaval to kill it after 50 days.
YH: big deal? plenty of guys make it to 50 and fall. so you fall once, big deal? you were clean for 50 days, now go for it.
ME: ummm. I don't know
YH: come on, big deal. you used to do this all the time.
Me: If I don't give in to you I can make a nice post on GYE of how I didn't fall (really, that's what I thought, as crazy as it sounds)
YH: so what, just post that you fell and what lessons you learned from it and you are going to try again for 90 days. the guys will understand (maybe even more than if you stay clean)
ME: leave me alone.
Quiet
YH: Nu?
me: what do you want? what's the point? what will I gain?
YH: it feels good.
ME: aha, so that's the issue,just because i am feeling down, you want me to feel good? i am not really feeling so bad. I see that you are trying to make me find a way to feel in control of something. I see what you want, get away. and by the way i think it will be a great post.

so that was it, i pulled through with the help of all the gye guys and the understandings of what pushes the urge. it felt great. I got up left the bathroom and started getting dressed to start my day.

And then a strange thing happened. my wife came in the room when i was half dressed and she took over for the yetzer harah. I had a debate in my mind if it was a reward or another nisayon. Well I decided that it was a heaven sent reward since it was not coming from me. in fact i was a little frustrated that just when i got past the nisayon, I get involved in this. but once i decided it was a well deserved reward, I let myself enjoy my reward.
and we travel further on the road to 90 days and beyond.....(TO be continued, I guess)

Great story!

I have some he'oros on a few things, but I don't wanna ruin the impact of the story.

KIU!

b'hatzlachah

WOW!!

The point that I take out of it is that even though a few posts ago you weren't so sure where you were holding, one can never become complacent for it's always waiting or an opportune time!

Thanks for sharing!!!

KOMT!!! KOP!!!!!

cordnoy, thanks for not ruining it. I am curious as to your hearos (I have a feeling i know what they are) so maybe PM me.
pidaini, yup. that is how it goes. And indeed a few posts ago I was saying that I feel it is important to stay connected and keep posting, and sure enough it is exactly that which saved me

I was wondering about something today:
If it is indeed true that I haven't been suffering from addiction (I haven't needed addiction steps to really get out of the habit as of now - fifty something days, maybe I will check the chart to see where I am holding exactly), then how is it that after all the years of trying to stop watching porn and masturbating, all of a sudden I am able to stay clean for over fifty days - something I was never able to do for at least the last eight years - just by signing up to GYE?
So I thing the answer is that by getting involved here I have made it a focus of my day to day activities, to be working on these inyonim. Perhaps similarly to when I had worked on other areas of avodas Hashem in a chabura setting. Only in this area I had no way of focusing with a group which makes it easier to stay focused. In the past, I find that I would decide to pick myself up after a fall and start focusing on learning mussar. this helped until I got back to a higher plane and didn't feel that it was as critical and then the mussar slacked off and I ended back to where I was.
With GYE, even through the good times, I have stayed connected and that has been keeping me involved enough to retain focus when the hard times creep up on me again. Even when I am doing well and don't feel that I have what to post, I have still been reading the forums and getting the emails and that has made such a difference.
(This is besides the great eitzos and insights into dealing with the yetzer harah and the addiction and refocusing my energies and outlook in regards to my relationship with my wife.)
So I would like to call out to all the silent readers out there (apparently there are hundreds more readers than writers on the forum) to get involved - join the discussion. You can help yourselves and others in your situations. The more different individuals discuss their situations, the bigger assortment of issues can be dealt with to the benefit of everyone in klal yisrael.
Just a thought.