in today's Chizuk Email r' shaifer does a good job explaining what happens when we uses God for selfish reasons

(sorry dont know how to link to the chizuk emails)

i too can say that i have tried many times to use torah as tool didn't always really work the way i wanted it too, sometimes the trigger mellowed down but many times not,

i guess that the idea of torah saving the situation is only to avoid the mess but once we already are all messed up we need to follow the torah by trying to get more help(we see in chazal many kind of kabolos or gedarim to keep away from sinning if torah was the simple solution why would we need to try other things),

kol tuv!!

dear afresh,
thank-you for all your well writen posts.
if you don't mind, i would like to voice a thought that occured to me.

i really understand the need to keep focused on recovery, even if it means not to mix in anything religious, and especially if doing so causes confusion and pressure, and i'm sure, by the way, this is also encouraged by the torah, by the mere virtue that anything good has it's place,
but let's say that basic recovery takes ( for arguements sake ) a year or two, should one be left without solid torah hashkafa's for so long?
and if yes, what if recovery takes even longer?
i think that getting torah hashkafas are so esstential that leaving them in the air for a really long time, can be very damaging, and maybe even more than lust addiction.
for example, without hashkafas, one can turn to apikorsus and minous,
and i believe that there are sources that indictate that not having any correct opinion or belief is equal to denying the right ones,
nevertheless Hashems does provide a chance for everyone to get themselves straight, just my question is for how long is it right to leave these essential questions without answers?

again i'm not attacking anyone, i'm just thinking what the right thing really is, after all, we all agree that honesty is really important.
and i'm not judging either, maybe there are people who don't have it in their bechira at all to get right hashkafas.
just thinking

sorry for the hiatus, was busy with a lot these past few days, Baruch hashem busy with only good things.


i understand your question

a jew cannot be without any hashkafahs. its dangerous and you are absolutely right about it leading to apikorsus or minus.

(although i dont really believe there are any real apikorsim anymore, its really just rebelling against God so that they dont have to feel guilty for doing the things they do, apikorsus is something deeper than simple Prikas Ol)

what i am referring to is hashkafah that directly intersects with my addiction.

for example, i am a very dangerous driver, this means that i cannot get behind the wheel of a car, i cant fool myself into thinking that i will drive a little bit and i will be ok, i simply cannot drive at all whatsoever. so i get out of the car and walk, or run, or fly, or take a boat, or get on a bicycle, or even maybe Kvitzatz Haderech! But when it comes to driving, i simply can't do it. i cant fool myself into thinking that i can try different techniques of driving, or take medicine while i am driving, i simply cannot drive.

its same with my addiction, i simply need to get out of the car. i cant use hashkafah to deal with it. hashkafah in other areas may not have that effect, only when it intersects with my addiction.

hashkafah itself is not an issue, my warped brain on lust is the issue, and i cant really trust the warped part of my brain to decide how it will deal with addiction.

the sad thing is that for me lust addiction became my lens for understanding the world and hashem, and that means that my place in the world and my relationship with Hashem has been infected by my warped sense of self. this means that i cannot know God, or my responsibilities to Him the way hashkafah wants me too,

all i can do is let go, trust in Him, and just do what i need to do, not because it makes sense or that the hashkafah makes sense, just because i need to stop thinking that i know who he is. that's the problem with this addiction, it makes me feel like i really know everything there is to know about myself and Him, and its wrong,

Hashem is unknowable, and i need to stop making him up

i tried using Hashkafah and it didnt work, does that mean that no one should use hashkafah? of course not.
does it mean that i shouldnt have hashkafah at all? of course not.

all it means that i need to be careful when my brain starts giving me a hashkafah shmuz, because i am an addict, i am very good at manipulation, including self manipulation.

perhaps there are some people who can use hashkafah to help them, but it seems that for many it doesnt work!

the Zohar says that the 613 mitzvos are really 613 eitzos, this means (to me) that if a part of torah is no longer an eitzah for me because i warped it, i cannot use it anymore until i rewire my system. right now my system is wired to reject, or ignore the exhortations of torah in regards to lust,

i wish it were different, but whatever, it is what it is, i cant beat myself up about, that will just get me back into the lust game again

HI Unanumun!!!

haven't seen you around in a while,

hows it going,

waiting to hear some chizuk from you l'kavod chodesh ellul (שפתי חיים, רב וולבא, וכדומה)

KOMT!!!!

Ok I am back. (Thanks DD for shlepping me back in)
It's been a crazy few weeks. alot of stuff going on in my life. I have been staying in touch through emails with some of the guys and received the emails following up on the forum discussions so that has kept me connected.
In previous times, such a difficult few weeks would have definately called for escaping through acting out. Thanks to all that i have gained by hanging out here, i was able to find other escapes and managed to stay clean without too much hardships.
I made it past the post birth separation stage ok, but surprise suprise, my old buddy lust who was lurking in the corner came out to greet me. (More details in the balabatim section. - sorry DMS, gotta play by the rules )
Getting myself back into a schedule again. I have fallen out of learning every day. sort of lost control of my life, but starting to put back the pieces now that life had calmed down a bit. I am happy that i managed to stay clean. and that to me is more important at this stage than all the other things.
I am amazed that so much time has passed since i joined GYE, it has been 5 months and i am a completely different person than i was then.
I did start to feel over the last week, how it can be possible to be clean for 140 days and then fall. just knowing that it is a normal thing, helped me stay strong and pull through.gotta KOT!!!!
as far as the divrei torah, I guess i will have to wait till something new starts going into the system before it starts to overflow. right now things are pretty stagnant, but hopefully i will get back to it.

from the white book:

What we strive toward is not only the negative sobriety of not acting out our sexaholism, but progressive victory over the obsession in the looking and thinking. We also strive toward the positive sobriety of acting out true union of persons. The great blessing (or curse, as the case may be) of our condition is that unless and until we can give unconditionally and relate with others, the vacuum left inside us from withdrawal will never be filled. All along, we had thought we could make the Connection by taking; we see now that we get it by giving. Our whole concept of sex begins to change. Sex finds a simple and natural place it could never have before and becomes merely one of the things that flows from true union in committed marriage. And even here, we've discovered that sex is optional.

gee whiz, what a rude awakening.
I had to be in several places yesterday due to business, and there were shmiras eynayim nisyonos galore. Triggers all over the place. From one place to the next the sights were worse (Or maybe more difficult should be the word. had they been worse and worse things might have been easier and easier)
I was slowly losing my ground. I must admit openly that as the evening hours started arriving, I found myself starting to want to enjoy the sights.
I had through the day some thoughts about wanting to sit back down at my computer and enjoy the sights without worrying that someone will be watching me, (WOOPS I forgot, Hashem is always watching - so much for that).
At one point I started thinking, gee I hope my wife is up when I come home or else I will really have a hard night. (Oy vay, there I go again, lust is lust - how do I keep forgetting?)
Late at night I had to be at the office for a few minutes to look something up on the internet. Gee whiz some of these web sites are not just triggers, they are like nuclear bombers. I saw a picture with a caption sending to a very interesting article (for a porn addict that is)....
I looked.....
I looked again.....
I thought about clicking....
I thought again about clicking.....
I looked again.....
and then.....
I closed the browser and went home. (A part of me said what are you crazy? you can just go home and get the real thing. Why bother looking and falling??)
so I went home. Sure enough everyone sleeping. Extra kiddys in the bedroom. BOOM... now what?
So I went to sleep. Slept well. And woke up to another day.
It is good to be able to be back in my relatively clean neighborhood. but I realized I still do have a lust problem. However I have grown in that the fight is far away from acting out. I was able to slip a few notches and not get too deep into the pit. That was not possible 6 months ago.
So once again, thanks to all

Wow great work!

Thanks for sharing!

unanumun wrote:


Gevaldig! Actually happened to me lately too. But the lesson I took away from my experience was - not that I can afford to slip a few notches here and there - but that I may not be so lucky next time, so I need to be more careful in the future.

Hatzlacha

MT

Machshovo Tova wrote:


great going gyes!!!
that's not trucking its semi-trailering!!!
um.. dear m.t, una didn't say he could afford to slip a few... rather bedi'eved If he slipped, he didn't go down the tube. (the youtube)

dear lavi,

I understand. I was just reiterating the obvious (for my own benefit).

Hatzlacha

MT

Machshovo Tova wrote:


gotcha.

may Hashem mitztaref you to maaseh toiv.

Great stuff Unan.

May it be the inspiration for the moment before us.

b'hatzlachah