Dov wrote:


I think Dov meant that figuratively, not literaly. Do it for your own sake, G-d's sake will come later (maybe).

I think it was not figuratively.

But regardless Dov is right. This is not about having quantitative measures of degrees of addiction.

Are you in control or are you desperately trying to be in control but you are out of control?

Are you doing things that you promised you would never do?

Do you really wish you would never do this again but know that you can't stop yourself?

Do you hate yourself more each time you act out?

Lol I feel like we keep missing each other in regards to what we are saying... ok ill try again here goes...
yes I understand that one needs to be in control of their sexual impulsi prior to dating and that even if ur clean for 1000 years it makes no difference if you're still lusting at every thing that walks on two legs,and you guys to ask great questions -
Sparky its true I'm not always in control of my impulses as much as id like to be and in the past I have broken boundaries that said I wouldn't mainly stopping boundaries, and I don't know if I can stop myself forever although I'm trying and I wish I can and I definitely am upset with myself achar hamaisah but how does that determine how long I should wait after I do find. mehalech that works for me?
And dov chaver dov, I must not understand what you mean, I am not asking or looking for a diagnosis or guidelines, what I AM looking for are suggestions, I can literally feel myself detox daily when I have significant periods of time clean and I use those methods, if they work, to stay clean but my question is (drumroll please) how long do you/people/therapists/ suggests one detoxes prior to meeting a real life (holy smokes a real live woman... sounds frightening ) nice young lady for purposes of marriage? And I know that if I would wait 100 years id still be on the road of getting better and decoding. so I'm just asking for a realistic time period where one can be, like I said before, In a holding period till they kind of land back on planet earth. Of course this means that he found a method that works and is using it but I'm specifically referring to healing of damage that WAS already wrought upon his brain/imagination and sexual fantasies
.... phew ok that's that .

U serious here? I dunno.

All I meant was something like, "for crying out loud" - a figure of speech like "for G-d's sake, man". They sound a lot nicer than saying "dammit", no?

It's like the line you put in your footer thingy: "Nothing changes if everything stays the same" - action is the ONLY thing that really matters. Our minds have great aliyah, but it's all just fluff in this olam ha'asiyah. Useless till we do real, imperfect, action.

I'll give u three examples from my own daily life of this in action. It's incredible.

But thinking is not incredible...we just think it is. We get tricked over and over.

im assuming that wasn't for me?

mr.clean wrote:


Nope, that was for me

Pidaini wrote:


I was just kidding Dov, I personally like "dammit" it gives a much stronger impression than "for G-d's sake, man". althought the latter may be nicer...

Mr. Clean,

I can't answer your question but I will say this. A guy who looks at porn and is not an addict might be overly concerned with the girls looks and that might effect his judgment. But that won't ruin his marriage.

An addict will screw up his marriage because of his addiction. Addicts are self centered. If you are a sex addict than sex is all about you. Women want to be intimate in the context of a relationship. But addicts don't do that. They use her body for their pleasure. She will understand that intuitively and that really screws things up on a whole new level.

Also addiction gets worse over time and in and sex in marriage makes it worse. In ten years the addict can be going to strip clubs or prostitutes. Even if she never finds out or he stays out of jail it drains the last bit of juice out of the relationship.


I hope this helps. Use what ever dramatic word you want.

I completely concur with Sparky's comment-the more that I read, downloaded and watched porn, the more that it affected my judgment and created a need for porn and masturbation on a constant basis. I never went to a strip club or went to a hooker, but there is no doubt that for many , porn and masturbation are the beginnings of a downward cycle that winds up in strip clubs and meeting with hookers. I can certainly agree that "just" resorting to reading, downloading and watching porn and a constant need for masturbation also came perilously close to endangering my marriage-until I met with a great therapist and I arrived here. I can onl;y say that the chevra here, and especially Dov, have helped me enormously and that they are the reason why I am Tahor for the longest period of my life.

Sparky wrote:


OMG, I italicised the stuff that Sparky wrote that my wife and I both know now, so increadibly clearly.

But interestingly, these are things a person can hear, read, and study - but usually does not really know they are true till after they are clean a while and get some sanity. I don't invite my wife to read forum stuff, but if I did, I;d want her to read Sparky's post above just so that we'd then turn to each other with a wry smile and nod that slow, sorry nod a few times...

One comment regarding Sparky's note, though:

You wrote that if the addicts among us don't get help, then after ten years or so they'd likely be seeing hookers or going to nude bars, etc. While that is certainly very common even among the frum, I just want to say that I have met many who were much slower in their downward progress with addiction. Many guys are truly holy - and hold off against the power of their addiction for many years, only doing a little worse here and there and not getting into as much serious trouble as badly as many of us did.

Heaven help them, for more's the pity. They often just get accustomed to their horrible suffering, and never find out how much easier life can be in recovery.

Ok guys I need your help,
so here is where I'm holding, I have done with friends similar to the taphsic method in the last month or so and that helped perfectly, when I do that its like I don't even have a challenge anymore. I give him a check and tell him to cash it if I mess up.(we only did that for 2 weeks).after it was over however, I kept on messing up and now its two weeks later and I couldn't get more then 3 days. I have however been much better regarding lusting b"h. I found that if I decide not to lust, on the street or at home I can stop myself, and yes its not easy but I can do it thank god. But then at night even though I had a great day, in yeshiva,and outside, and I even can have just gotten off the phone with a friend giving him chizuk (!) I can go right ahead and mess up so badly and surf the web for hours and hours maybe even through the night,
Needless to say I'm very confused about my predicament and I know you guys have good advice so pls any thoughts? Where am I holding?
thx

If it was working, why didn't you renew it?

I have some doubts about taphsic working long term. It can definitely help, but for many it is not "THE" solution. Perhaps a "part" of the solution.

What else have you learned from here, from the handbook? What else has or hasn't worked for you?

So u make a good point, the reason I'm not continuing the taphsic,is bec every time indo it and It ends I binge like crazy, and during, its so easy for me not to lust cause there is a nice amount of money at stake so I dont really work on myself its basically like I'm just on vacation from the issue.
The biggest thing that I read in the handbook that helped is the most basic (I didn't read the whole handbook only like halfway so) I just WATCHED MY EYES EVERYEWHERE, my lusting dropped like crazy. Out of sight out of mind. Now I could talk to a lady and push the lust out of my head if I want to, maybe not fully, but I dont lust after every woman I see. It kinda became a conscious decision.
What about u?

So, it sounds like taphsic was just a nice way to "hold your breath" for a while.

Shmiras Aynayim is critical.

What helped me was a combination of my wife finding out. I can't bear to cause her (and me) so much pain again. I can't lie, because that will be even worse. If she finds out, she won't ever trust me again. Losing her trust the first time, was the most painful part. I truly just cannot "afford" to lust.

The second thing that helped was opeining up to real people about my problem. It helped me to accept myself as I am and let go of some of my perfectionism and unrealistic expectations of myself.

Finally, just getting out of isolation and making a point of calling friends or getting together with them. Alone time and lonliness are poison for me.

That's awesome that your able to hold out bec u love ur wife and respect her so much I hope I can do that one day.
You said it good it was just holding my breath but at least I was clean that is the main thing, but i kinda need to give it my own shot now, no taphsic or monetary obligations just hardcore using the tools I have learned and applying them and it sounds easy now but in two weeks (if I make it that far) I'm gonna be going crazy so I'm hoping this will work and keeping my fingers crossed .