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TOPIC: Busted 3966 Views

Re: Busted 27 Nov 2013 19:25 #224138

  • ddmm11219
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ull see iy"h
ירידה זו צורך עליה
some1 of the chaveirim here wrote me in private, that his best day in life was when his wife busted him, cuz from then on he took his issues into control, was murder hard, ever he left like committing S...., but from there on slowly became better and better
לה' הישועה
מלך ממית ומחיה ומצמיח ישועה
...וְאִם גַּם אֶתְאַמֵּץ בְּעֵצוֹת וְתַחְבֻּלוֹת וְכָל יוֹשְׁבֵי תֵבֵל יַעַמְדוּ לִימִינִי לְהוֹשִׁיעֵנִי וְלִתְמֹךְ נַפְשִׁי, מִבַּלְעֲדֵי עֻזְּךָ וְעֶזְרָתְךָ אֵין עֶזְרָה וִישׁוּעָה...‬

מתוך תפילה נפלאה שחיבר הרה"ק רבי מאיר מאפטא זצוק"ל, בעל מחבר ספר "אור לשמים", ונדפסה בתחילת ספרו.

Re: Busted 27 Nov 2013 22:14 #224158

i am late in here, first thanks for coming in and sharing your story.
then another thanks for making such giant steps.

in regards to your wife, i would suggest, if you can have a really open talk with her, that you are really sorry for her, and you have terrible charutah on what you did to her, and you feel her pain, and you cant sleep at night because of her, best would be if you can share some tears in front of her, i doubt you can do that, but if you would i can guarantee you that you will save your marriage, now in these talks you should never tell her your struggles, well she cant understand that for now, you should only excuse yourself, and keep begging her for mercy, now if its really hard for you to do so, then the best approach would be with a letter to her, and write down your apologies to her, and that you hope one day she will be so happy with you as never before, buy her a gift together with the letter, and just keep the whole talk into one direction, that you feel her pain and you understand it, and you have really charuta on what you did, and you can promise her it will never happen again, and your bad feelings for her, and so on.

its really heartbreaking your story and you will struggle alot to get your wife confident with you, but dont worry with your effort and your therapist and rav you will make it.

just KEEP ON TRUCKING!

Re: Busted 28 Nov 2013 00:39 #224171

  • chizukmachine
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Thank you all for all your encouragement, its been a very helpful life line in a bleak and dark two weeks. I went to the therapist and told him everything from day one back when i was 13 and this was the first time i've ever, ever, told anyone. It felt good to finally get it off my chest. my wife is going soon and hopefully she will being to start understanding, i don't know though. we talk about our day to day activities and the kids, but she's still distant and cold emotionally. It gets difficult sometimes and sometimes easier but she's still in the house so that's a good sign I guess. She's happy i went to the therapist, I just hope her going will help her understand a little bit. I try learning mussar every day, but each time i just get lost in my thoughts of what i did to her and the pain she's going through. It struck me how much of a kafui tov i've been to her for all the good that she's done for me over the past few years and how i just repaid that with pain and suffering. Kind of like adam harishon to hashem when he said "it was the wife you gave me that made me eat from the etz hadaas." What scares me most is that my memory of the incident is starting to fade, even a little bit, and with it my sense of humbleness. Part of me wants to go back to being happy go lucky and upbeat, but I know that if i do it will hurt my wife even more. On the other hand, being stuck in a depressing stupor of shock isn't too good for me either. Not sure what to do . . . Thanks for all your input!!

Re: Busted 28 Nov 2013 00:46 #224174

  • gibbor120
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I'm sure it was quite a relief to tell your story. I remember when I did it as part of a first step inventory and it was quite therapudic.

There was a fellow here named Bardichev who was insanely popular. He used to sign HH (Happy and Humble). I think that is a good motto. Stay happy and humble. I don't think you need to walk around depressed.

Be patient with your wife. You cannot change her. You have to let her come to grips with it. Hopefully, she will come around and decide that it is worth staying married. Show that you care for her and feel bad that you hurt her (but that is not the same as walking around depressed).

WE ARE ALL ROOTING FOR YOU! Keep us posted.

Re: Busted 03 Dec 2013 01:05 #224342

  • chizukmachine
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so my wife is still upset. she refuses to accept anything from me, tea, coffee, etc. WE went away for the weekend and that was really tough, visited friends, had to pretend to be happy. It's been almost three weeks now, and our relationship hasn't seen improvement other than that her anger has lessened. she says she can never see us together as she would always see my hands on other girls. I went to therapist again, that was helpful, and convinced her to go back to therapist this week but not sure its going to help, last time she came back angrier. Thanks for all your help!

Re: Busted 03 Dec 2013 05:03 #224361

  • kilochalu
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chizukmachine wrote:
hasn't seen improvement other than that her anger has lessened

sounds like some sort of improvement
I know it was mentioned before, maybe the time was not ripe yet (al teratzeh bsha'as ka'aso) but there are probably some women\wives here who can be mechazek her (my wife has spoken to duvid chaim's wife)
Hashem should help you see bigger and better improvements and should help us all continue being sober!

Re: Busted 03 Dec 2013 22:01 #224381

  • gibbor120
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Why did she come back angrier?

Would she be willing to talk to someone like duvid chaim's wife? It may help to speak to somone that went throught it and now has a happy marriage.

Still feeling for you. Hang in there.

Re: Busted 04 Dec 2013 19:39 #224437

  • chizukmachine
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prob not ready yet, she's meeting with therapist again tomorrow. . . i met with my rebbi and discussed the issue; he felt that this is standard and it would take a couple of months before she warms up to me completely . . . we argued in car ride back, i think she appreciates it more when i respond to what she is saying, even if slightly angry rather than keep silent . . me personally i'd rather keep quite so as not to get angry but to her that means she's talking to a wall. . . so i respond and even if we go in circles it makes her feel better . . for ex: this morning she was quite cold to me so i asked her about it and she told me how much et upsets her, etc. and that made her feel better to take it out on me . .then she was warmer to me . . go figure

Re: Busted 04 Dec 2013 20:00 #224439

  • gibbor120
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It sounds like you are making some progress, very slowly. IY"H things will continue to get better.

Re: Busted 04 Dec 2013 22:42 #224453

  • Larry
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chizukmachine wrote:
...i think she appreciates it more when i respond to what she is saying, even if slightly angry rather than keep silent ... for ex: this morning she was quite cold to me so i asked her about it and she told me how much et upsets her, etc. and that made her feel better to take it out on me . .then she was warmer to me . . go figure
It's a lot like this between my wife and me... when we get into a heated discussion or argument, I'll feel sometimes like I don't want to continue the conversation... as in, just stop talking (I think of it as a "pocket veto" of this particular topic). But my wife has told me that me doing that really drives her nuts. So now, I'll try to respond with what I'm thinking, even though I don't particularly want to say it (at least at that time), as a way of trying to avoid annoying my wife more than I already have.

I think this is a main difference between men and women... when faced with an emotional woman, a man's instinct is just to shut down the conversation. On the other hand, the woman is emotional and wants to talk it out, and so the man's attempt to shut down the conversation gets her more upset because it takes her away from what she wants to do to in order to settle things in her mind.

Of course, the usual disclaimers about "everyone's different", etc. are applicable here, but I try to keep these general things in mind (sometimes successful, sometimes not) to avoid provoking my wife further.
Last Edit: 04 Dec 2013 22:43 by Larry.

Re: Busted 04 Dec 2013 22:54 #224454

  • cordnoy
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IMHO, it is best to validate her point. If by arguing with her, you will be invalidating, that as well is a recipe for disaster, and you will not be movin' in a positive direction.

Now, obviously, this is true to all arguments, but I think it is the case especially with these issues. The goal is for her to trust you again, to mend a broken fence and heart...so that ya' can learn to love again.....invalidating her and her opinions and thoughts can be catastrophic.

Once again, nothin' more than my thoughts.

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Re: Busted 05 Dec 2013 00:11 #224459

  • AlexEliezer
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Follow her lead.
If she wants to talk then you need to talk.
If she wants space, then you need to give it to her.
As long as the two of you are talking there's plenty of hope.
Be very patient.

Re: Busted 05 Dec 2013 06:31 #224478

  • sib101854
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I agree wholeheartedly with this last post. As long the potential for dialogue is present, then follow your wife's lead as to when she wants to talk, have quiet time or help from you in any way.

Re: Busted 05 Dec 2013 14:54 #224500

  • think good
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chizukmachine
. we argued in car ride back, i think she appreciates it more when i respond to what she is saying, even if slightly angry rather than keep silent . . me personally i'd rather keep quite so as not to get angry but to her that means she's talking to a wall. . . so i respond and even if we go in circles it makes her feel better . . for ex: this morning she was quite cold to me so i asked her about it and she told me how much et upsets her, etc. and that made her feel better to take it out on me . .then she was warmer to me . . go figure


Wonderful! Your wife wants to communicate and you want to "stonewall", (keep quite). I suggest you get hold of several books by Dr John M. Gottman today., not sure where you live, they are available from Amazon.

1 - Seven principles For making marriage work
2 - 10 Lessons to Transform your Marriage

Dr Gottman calls signs of marriage problems the four horseman:

1 - Criticism
2 - Contempt
3 - Defensiveness
4 - Stonewalling

Here'a a quote from page 33, not exactly your issue but you will get the idea.



Horseman 4: Stonewalling. In marriages like Dara and Oliver's, where discussions begin with a harsh startup, where criticism and contempt lead to defensiveness, which leads to more contempt and more defensiveness, eventually one partner tunes out.
This heralds the arrival of the fourth horseman. Think of the husband who comes home from work, gets met with a barrage of criticism from his wife, and hides behind the
newspaper. The less responsive he is, the more she yells. Eventually he gets up and leaves the room. Rather than confronting his wife, he disengages. By turning away from her, he is avoiding a fight, but he is also avoiding his marriage. He has become a stone waller. Although both husbands and wives can be stone wallers, this behavior is far
more common among men, for reasons we'll see later.

During a typical conversation between two people, the listener gives all kinds of cues to the speaker that he's paying attention. He may use eye contact, nod his head, say something like "Yeah" or "uhhuh". But a stone waller doesn't give you this sort of casual feedback. He tends to look away or down without uttering a sound. He sits like
an impassive stone wall. The stone waller acts as though he couldn't care less about what you're saying, if he even hears it. Stonewalling usually arrives later in the course of a marriage than the other three horsemen. That's why it's less common among
newlywed husbands such as Oliver than among couples who have been in a negative spiral for a while. It takes time for the negativity created by the first three horsemen to become overwhelming enough that stonewalling becomes an understandable "out." That's the stance that Mack takes when he and his wife Rita argue about each other's behavior at parties. She says the problem is that he drinks too much. He thinks the bigger problem is her reaction: She embarrasses him by yelling at him in front of his friends. Here they are, already in the middle of an argument:

Rita: Now I've become the problem, again. I started off with the complaint, but now I am the problem. That always seems to happen.
Mack: Yeah, I do that, I know. (Pause.) But your tantrums and childishness are an embarrassment to me and my friends.
Rita: If you would control your drinking at parties, puleese . . .
Mack: (Looks down, avoids eye contact, says nothing--he's stonewalling.)
Rita: Because I think (laughs) for the most part, we get along pretty well, really (laughs).
Mack: (Continues to stonewall. Remains silent, makes no eye contact, head
nods, facial movements, or vocalizations.)
Rita: Don't you think?
Mack: (No response.)
Rita: Mack? Hello?
The third sign: flooding
It may seem to Rita that her complaints have no effect on Mack. But nothing could be further from the truth. Usually people stonewall as a protection against feeling flooded. Flooding means that your spouse's negativity--whether in the guise of criticism or contempt or even defensiveness--is so overwhelming, and so sudden, that it leaves you
shell-shocked. You feel so defenseless against this sniper attack that you learn to do anything to avoid a replay The more often you feel Hooded by your spouse's criticism or contempt, the more hyper vigilant you are for cues that your spouse is about to "blow" again. All you can think about is protecting yourself from the turbulence your
spouse's onslaught causes. And the way to do that is to disengage emotionally from the relationship. No wonder Mack and Rita are now divorced.

Another husband, Paul, was quite up front about why he stonewalls when his wife, Amy, gets negative. In the following discussion he articulates what all stone wallers are feeling.

Amy: When I get mad, that's when you should step in and try to make it better. But when you just stop talking, it means, "I no longer care about how you feel." That just makes me feel one inch tall. Like my opinion or feelings have absolutely no bearing on
you. And that's not the way a marriage should be.
Paul: What I'm saying is, if you wanna have a serious conversation, you're gonna do it without yelling and screaming all the time. You start saying things that are hurtful.
Amy: Well, when I'm hurt, mad, and I wanna hurt you, I start saying
things. And that's when we should both stop. I should say "I'm
sorry." And you should say, "I know that you wanna talk about
this. And I really should make an effort to talk instead of just
ignoring you."
Paul: I'll talk when-
Amy: It fits your purpose.
Paul: No, when you're not yelling and screaming and jumping up and down stomping.
Amy kept telling Paul how it made her feel when he shut down. But she did not seem to hear him tell her why he shuts down: He can't handle her hostility. This couple later divorced.

A marriage's meltdown can be predicted, then, by habitual harsh startup and frequent flooding brought on by the relentless presence of the four horsemen during disagreements. Although each of these factors alone can predict a divorce, they usually coexist in an unhappy marriage.

Re: Busted 12 Dec 2013 01:37 #224854

  • chizukmachine
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so after speaking with therapist, it's time to make a full and absolute disclosure to my wife, even though she knows almost everything already. Going to be tough but hope i can make it through. We've been speaking and are on friendly terms, but still not close. we talk a lot at nights but usually she's upset and she can't understand why i did what i did. We'll see how this goes, hope it works out, but i'm not sure yet if it will. i appreciate all your advice and input and thank you for all the encouragement.
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