Nachshon wrote:


Sin? You keep throwing in the 'sin' idea.

You are a mature, grown man. Yet you keep sounding like you really believe for a minute that the reason you wish you'd quit this habit is becaue of sin?

Look, I know phone sex. I had a 7 year relstionahip with one such person, and dozens of other short ones - been thru the 'begging her to hang up next time' and weaseled my way back in...

So please quit the BS first, OK? You are safe here and can say the truth. And I bet the truth is not that the problem for you is that it is 'sin', but the immaturity and stupidity of this double life of ours. Here you are, a mature, successful fellow with a real life - and yet here you are in your secret corner hiding, childishly calling secret mama in desperation (you are desperate before you do it, or you'd just not do it, right?), talking dirty to her and greedily inhaling the sweet fantasy and masturbating yourself in the corner like a 14 year-old...

Makes no real sense.

"Asher his'alalti b'mitzrayim" - Hashem told Moshe that we would tell our children how He played with par'oh, made a fool out of him.

I assume you use a fake name here (I don't), because you see you are played the fool by your penis and your lust over and over and over...and you ask sensible questions here wondering this and that...but right before we feel that horrible feeling of "Oy, I fell again?!", the sweet orgasms whisper quietly to us..."you will be back." And we come back on our knees, no matter how 'respectable we are in 'real life'.

You see this.

If a guy who sees this and admits he comes to lust groveling for more saying, "hey, I'll take the degradation and shed my integrity just for this one more fling," over and over - yet is not willing to come to recovery on his knees and lose the respectability a little bit for it, then there is little hope.

Usernames are a way of protecting from truthfulness - not from the harm of others (unless your name is something like 'Chuna-Shmilu'), and calling it a 'battle against sin' is just a way to keep the immature and stupid behavior we keep acting 'respectable'.

We are just real fools in our addiction or habit, nothing more and nothing less. We make fools of ourselves. We are not 'victims', but make outselves this way. And can get help if we are willing to shed the shame and to quit feigning the 'respectability' - and start being real. Face it, the porn is truly precious to us. That's a bit weird, no?

And start getting real help rather than just whining like the little kid in the corner hiding his precious porn.

Dov...Ouch.

That really stung...mostly because its so true. I wish it were only phone...crossed that line several years ago. I do feel shame of the double life...when I look in the mirror the pain realizing I committed many horrible sins. Not sure why you feel feeling horrible about the sin is immature...but not really important.

I admit I cant beat this alone. I have a sponsor that sounds like an expert and I am committed to calling this week and getting real.

For me the final blow is when we were together last she said something about how clueless your wife is...made me sick to my stomach the person that is so good to me amazing mother and wife....this is how I thank her. I have this weakness that I just cant overcome on my own.

I SURRENDER!

If you indeed truly surrender, then you are luckier now than you have ever been from the very first day that you started playing with the porn, phone sex, and women. I know what you are going through as I have been there, too. And I do not doubt you - but I do recognize that our sincerity is not always that clear to us ourselves! After all, we have spent years and years lying to ourselves...that's weird. How do we expect to get honest and remain honest w oursleves suddenly?

And yes, that last post of mine was worded more starkly than it should have been, soory. But it describes me as I am in my addiction, and thank-G-d do not need to be today. All because I suffered enough and finally took the real steps.

You will make it!!

Dov-I think that the following is the essence of the reason why we are here together :

"We are just real fools in our addiction or habit, nothing more and nothing less. We make fools of ourselves. We are not 'victims', but make outselves this way. And can get help if we are willing to shed the shame and to quit feigning the 'respectability' - and start being real."

Made me cry.
My heart goes out to you.

Join a 12 step call, it changed my life, with all the torah, tefillah, and tzedaka that I was doing, nothing could compare to seeing g-d EVERYWHERE!!

This clarity came from joining a 12 step call

B'hatzlocha!!!

Thank you Hallel no need to cry for me I made this mess.....

Took my first real step last night called my sponsor for the first time....we spoke for nearly an hour.

Was the first time I admitted to another human being all of what I had done. I wish I had the right words to describe the soul crushing (here is where I really need the word) disappointment/sadness/disgust/ when the two mes were in the same place. This other being I created with its own persona is me....I am that guy in the mirror....no longer able to compartmentalize him away...and believe I am the good person that everyone knows and loves.

My sponsor was great and we were able to connect....there was a moment when he said to me....what you are doing is having affairs ( will spare all of you the details...in a nut shell I was able to rationalize...I am not soooooo bad since I don't go all the way) when that was said that was a seminal moment....I had no answer...the compartments were annihilated at that moment....what a painful realization exploded my world. Must sound crazy to you....but hit me like a ton of bricks...my self image is shattered....and that is probably my first step in the right direction....

Have to figure out what the next step is....have to try and not slip into depression....the people around me sense something is wrong...

If my sponsor is reading this....thank you for the candor....and not holding back...

Me Kimamcha Yisroel.....

i can relate

look back at my thread someplace where someone told me (forgot who): "hey cords, web-camming the same woman for 16 months, constant chatting and texting with her....you are havin' an affair." and you know something, he was damn right!

WOOOOOHOOOOO!!!! GREAT JOB!!!

Just want to let you know something, and i don't mean to make you feel good, we have porn to do that for us . But the truth is that you are a good guy!! Really, you, I, and most of us here are really great guys. We are also somewhat "touched" internally, and that doesn't make us bad!!

Yes, it takes away the childish gleam, twinkle, sparkle of being "Mr. Perfect", and that hurts. But there is no reason that we have to become bad guys, no, we just have to become responsible guys. guys who acknowledge their shortcomings as being human and having made mistakes and being continuously able to make mistakes. It's sobering, somewhat humiliating, but not bad, not evil.

You've arrived!!! Arrived at the place that you can actually start from, and that is from where you are!!

KOP!!! You're a true inspiration!!

Pidaini wrote:


Keep On Porning?
Keep On Perfecting?
Keep On Plowing?
Keep On Propulsioning?
Keep On Pidaini?

Day 2...not counting clean days anymore....but the single me....

Thanks God over the initial shock (I know that sounds crazy)...but I literally created this other being that partook in these forbidden things....was able to block it out. As I write that must sound nuts to anyone reading...now that he is gone and only me left....hurts. Self loathing for first 36 hours...but believe I am going to come through this.

What is my next move?

Am I really an addict that needs to join an SA meeting (no insults meant to anyone)...but I conjure in my mind a seedy room filled with child molesters and former rapist...I am sure not the reality...is that my Sub conscious getting me not to take the next step since I made a big one already? Can I bring myself to join? What if I recognize someone? What if someone recognizes me? Do I have the guys to put myself that far out there?

My sponsor mentioned getting a copy of the White Book SA...have to figure out how to get that without the wife wondering what the hell I am doing with that. Is kind of funny...used to have to hide meetings for bad things now have to do the same for good?

I really appreciate all of the encouragement and I hope others are gaining from my struggle....

I feel like I am at ground zero need to keep motivation and take concrete steps to build my way out of this mess I created.

Nachshon wrote:

ouch! I really relate to this one, and how! it took me a few years of these kind of cheshbonos (and more suffering) until I finally took the leap like Nachshon into the yam.
What a surprise - no seedy room with anyone scary just guys like you and me (a litvishe and a chassiddishe, a kollel yungerman and a baalobos, young and old, bochurim and married, and a lubavitcher too!)
I was also afraid of meeting someone I knew "for good reasons" and guess what? I did,
and nothing happened. We see each other every day.
Afraid you don't have the guts to do it, I did not have the guts and suffered for a few more years, do what works for you. (Maybe Hashem will be good to you and your wife will catch you and that will make your decision easier.)

I do not know if anyone here has had issues with rape or molesting, but if they had, and are interested in recovering, please do so.
The point (or one of the points) of these meetings is to be non-judgmental.
Please do not deter anyone from choosing his path of recovery.

fixed my post, thanks for your he'ara
Hashem should help all of us have the guts to join the meetings and to take the necessary steps
like rashi in yisro (19:5) says (from the mechilta) "kol hascholos koshos."
it would seem like Chazal are saying afterwards is easy but Rashi says a davar nifla "im ata tikablu aleichem, ye'erav lachem mekan v'aylach" (if you acccept it on yourselves, it will be sweet to you from here on)
it will be sweet from now on, not that its easy but we will appreciate it and enjoy it! also Rashi explains the haschala as accepting to do it, once we truly accept to work on it the whole picture changes!

Last week, my SA homegroup (original and usual) meeting consisted of the pretty typical mix:

a few older men who have been sober a long while
a few younger men who have been sober a while
a few older men who have not been sober at all but really want to be
a few younger men who have not been sober at all but really want to be
a homeless guy
a priest
a rabbi
a guy recently thrown out of his home
a few doctors and lawyers
a few (5 or 6) frum guys
a CEO or two
a guy of one of the above groups who was arrested for soliciting sex
a guy who is pretty sick (me!) - but good enough for you...

some of them are also alkies, most are not
some of them have been through sexual trauma, most have not
some have inflicted sexual trauma on their wives or girlfriends, most have not
some are divorced, most have not been
some have some a religion, some do not
and just for the record, even most of the goyim there mainly suffer from internet porn and sex with self, rather than sex with anyone else...

It's yarmulkahs sitting next to crosses, the despondent sitting next to the happy, the closed-shut sitting next to the opening and getting free, the fearful sitting next to the accepting.

It's quite a mix, brother.

P.S. Kilochalu, I doubt all of us here on GYE need to go to SA meetings. But I also hope as you do, that Hashem helps us out of our fears to take whatever right steps are needed.

Obviously, this machala , phenomenon or however you want to describe, knows no ethnic or sociological boundaries. You have to realize totally as Dov pointed out that "Hashem helps us out of our fears to take whatever right steps are needed."