Hi,

I've been struggling with this for years now. I recently began reading through the Handbook and the Attitudes book. I am currently going on 15 days, but it feels like it's been years.

It's very hard, and there were points during these 2 weeks that I thought I would fail, or even wanted to fail. The hardest part for me is that my mind is always fantasizing. I am always imagining things, playing movies in my mind where I am the main character. And since I am the director of the movie, I make the details however I'd like, people will do whatever I want, and this is my way of escaping reality into a world that I like more than my life. I have full control in this alternate reality, which makes me happier. And I tell myself, there's nothing wrong with this, I am not acting out or looking at anything or doing anything, I am just thinking. There's nothing wrong with thinking, is there?

But I know that this fantasizing is feeding the lust, and it keeps my brain wanting to be in full control, which leads me to act out. When I am not happy with the reality of life, I tell myself, I have an alternate world which I like more, a world where I am in full control and I will not be unhappy. And to help me get ideas for this world, I watch videos and look at pictures. I look at women on the streets, to find something that I would like to think about. These scenes give me more material for my alternate world in my mind.

I would like to stop this whole mess from inside my brain. I wanted to just go into my brain and stop these thoughts. I'm hoping I'll eventually be able to do that.

your issue is not your lust that's just a symptom.you real issue is that u want to control life i.e the circumstances of life which you do not like ansd since you cant you turn to a world where you r in control and can gain maximum pleasure.

Comes out that you really need to work on acceptance and'Loving what is'.BTW thats the name a book written by Byron Katie which gides a person through work sheets and other stuff to accepting the conditions of life one is subjected to and instead working on themseves to change their outlook.
www.thework.com/index.php thats a link to her website.
Duvid chaim in thw 12 step calls works a lot with her stuff.
All the best!!!

Welcome to the forum!!

when I first decided to stop one of the hardest things was the fantasizing, it was also eventually what led to me to fall (i think), but BH it has lesseded an unimaginable ammount, going from almost always, to very seldom.

KOT, take it one day at a time, it will get easier as time passes.

Welcome!

Isn't it ironic that our illusion of control comes to control us?
Our means of escape becomes our prison?

"Struggling" and "fighting" are just code for dabbling, sipping and falling.

Stop struggling. Stop fighting. Get out of the ring. Stay far, far from lust. Cut it off at the pass.

Real control is not attainable. Because we aren't in control.

Real happiness is very attainable. We realize that Hashem is in control and we reconnect with Him. Surrendering our will to His will.

Instant happiness.

Until the Y"H comes knocking.

Yell at him. Tell him you're done with him. Better yet, cry to Hashem, begging him to take your lust.

Get back into real life. Live the life you've been avoiding. Spend time with people you like. Exercise. Learn. Daven and daven.

welcome

keep following

youll improve and be mechuzak here

HI and welcome!
I have always lived my life through day-dreaming, and I'm not only talking about sexual fantasies. I think that in high school was the first time that I made the conscious decision to dream away a boring lesson, to just escape into my head where life was perfect. It wasn't just that the shiur was boring so I slipped into a day-dream, but rather, I chose what I was going to fantasize about and got on with it.
It was only a few weeks ago, after I joined GYE and started trying to "give up" my lust (even though I'm still a little confused about that), that I realized that all this dreaming, as well as watching movies and reading books (for me at least) was not a form of relaxation, as I had told myself, but rather a way of escaping a "boring" and pressurizing life. I need to start focusing on myself and my life and really LIVE IT! Not just wander through it like some zombie, grunting at people as I pass by.
So how do I achieve this? Great question. I haven't figured it out yet. The best that I have managed to come up with is to tell myself every time that I start to dream, that this will not help me get anywhere, and that I will just be stuck feeling miserable or bored whenever I "wake up". Hasn't worked great so far. Better than before, but still, not great. I haven't cut myself off from books and movies yet (my body would probably go into shock from so much reality) but at least I remind myself before sitting down that I am now running away from life.
Another thing that sorta helped me was trying to focus on the things in my life that I am happy about,e.g my cute daughter or my amazing wife.Things that are real.
I don't know if anything I said can help you, besides for the fact that I relate to your problem.
We're all in the same boat here.
Cheers!

Welcome Keep Fighting!!

Thanks Guy for sharing!
Being that I'm in a similar struggle, Ill share what I have learned:

Day dreaming has been a huge problem for me as (think it started during highschool, the same time I started playing computer games - coincidence?).

It is a form of escapism, I know that. There is no way I find that can tackle the "Day-dreaming" problem by it self. However there is one thing that helped me alot
I use to get very upset at myself after a spaced out. This had a counteractive effect. Instead of being more focused, I blamed myself and hated myself because of it. So there was just another reason to escape my unworthy self!!
I have learned not to blame myself. Hashem built me this way, its OK, I only control my effort. Life has become much easier. And for some reason, I space out much less.

On the same note, don't worry cutting down on movies. I'm on day three and I'm still alive!! (Read: Starting to live)

Major quote on escapism in general:

gibbor120 wrote:

Welcome KF! It's nice to have you with us. What a wonderful honest post. I'd like to make a few comments.

Keep Fighting wrote:

Yes, it is very hard at first, but it does get easier over time. "keep fighting" for now, but IY"H you will struggle less and less over time.

Keep Fighting wrote:

I'm not sure if you are really questioning if it is assur. If you are, we can post some mekoros for you. The main mekor is a gemara in avodah zarah daf 20b

ת״ר ונשמרת מכל דבר רע שלא יהרהר אדם ביום ויבוא לידי טומאה בלילה

Tosafos there says "דרשה גמורה היא"

Also see kitzur shulchan aruch siman 151 www.kitzur.net/main.php?siman=151

In seif 2, he says "אסור לאדם שיקשה את עצמו לדעת, או שיביא את עצמו לידי הרהור אשה"

There are many more, but this should suffice as an answer to your yetzer.

Keep Fighting wrote:

You can't "go into your brain and stop these thoughts" any more than you can stop thinking about pink elephants (or is it green?). Anyway, the only way to stop is to go OUTSIDE your brain. Get involved in doing things for other people. Don't spend too much time inside your head. It's a dangerous place .

Get together with others. Do for others. Focus on others. and you'll see that you have no thoughts of pink elephants at all . The thoughts will disappear on their own.

I hope I have given you some food for... er.... thought

Hatzlacha!

sorry or hijacking the thread, but gibbor, for heaven sakes, IT'S GREEN. WHERE IN THE WORLD DID YOU PICK UP SUCH A WACKY IDEA OF PINK ELEPHANTS? THEY DON'T EXIST.

back to keep fighting....

I can't keep my elephants straight . There are worse things I guess

gibbor120 wrote:


are you sure? Hayom omar lo asei kach (green) umachar omar asei kach (who knows what?)

Just wanted to say a huge thanks to Avrom!
I fell yesterday. After 35 clean days.
Been feeling really down about it and thinking, what the heck lets just throw it all out the window.It's never gonna happen anyway right?
But Avrom
.
I found that really inspiring and uplifting. Still feeling down a little but more focused on what I can do to get back up. I think I'll reread those lines a few times.
Thanks!
p.s sorry for hijacking your thread KF you can have it back now.

I would like to thank you all for writing on this forum (even the hijackers )!

I have several thoughts/comments. First off, I want to say that I am forcing myself to respond to your messages. I want to be part of the chevra - I know that being a part of this will help. So I want to thank you in advance for helping to save my life. I love you guys for it.

tocontrolmyself -
I agree with you, I am not happy with my situation. I am in my early 20s, and I really want to get married. I have dated several times, but the girl has always been the one to end it. And I tell myself that this is what's causing my happiness, and this is what is causing me to act out. The last time I was dating, I was very good with this test. I didn't watch anything, I didn't think of anything, I didn't even look at women on the streets. I remember there was one point when I was walking and there was a really attractive woman in front of me, but I looked away, and I thought to myself - I have something going for me right now with the girl I am going out with, and she's 100 times better than this random woman. I don't want to think about this random woman, I have something better. Toward the end of the relationship, I got the sense that she wasn't into it anymore, and she was going to end it soon. That night, I got crushed, and I immediately started acting out. And since then, I went down another bad spiral.
I have read that Rabbi Twersky writes that marriage is not a hospital, and it won't heal the lust. But I really do believe that being single is what's causing me unhappiness. I want to be able to share with someone, care for someone, and I hate being alone. I know it's messed up, but part of my daydreaming is just thinking, what if it would have worked out with her? What if I would have said things differently? What if she just calls me now, months later, and says she wants to give it another shot? I want to let go, but at the same time, I don't want to let go - because as I said, I'm just not happy with the reality.
I will be checking out the website you mentioned. Maybe that will help me.

Pidaini -
Yes, one day at a time. In the office, right by my computer screen, I have the letters ODAAT, for one day at a time. I don't think anyone knows what it stands for, but it's to remind myself that I can do this, just ODAAT.

AlexEliezer -
You're first two lines had me laughing. That is unbelievable. My desire for control is what's controlling me. I never realized that.
I'm going to be honest, I have no clue how to do what you're suggesting. I guess it's because I haven't done it yet. But how do I just not fight it? My davening has been very weak. I haven't missed a tefilah. But that is prime-time day dreaming. I do some of my best daydreaming during davening. It wasn't always like this, but no matter how hard I try, I lost the concentration during davening.

cordnoy -
Thanks, I hope you're right, that's why I'm forcing myself to do this.

guy -
Thank you for sharing your story. Yes, we are in the same boat. I will let you know if I can get this figured out, and you please do the same for me.
I just want to say, you mentioned that you want to focus on things that you are happy about. I think that's a great attitude. I want to do that. And I have been trying to do that after reading your post. But it's not before long that I remember that I am sad about the things that I don't have, in particular, a partner. And I think to myself, I should just stop focusing on it. But I don't. I'm going to try to make a list of things I'm happy about. Maybe I'll take a look at this list next time I'm feeling down.

Avrom
I'm glad you mentioned this, I have a lot of trouble understanding this. Of course I am at fault. I am the one who is doing something wrong, not someone else. And I know Hashem made me this way, but he commanded that I behave a certain way, and I am neglecting to listen to Him? So how am I not at fault?
One Sunday afternoon, I spent hours - HOURS - just watching P and acting out. And as it was getting late, I stopped because it was time to daven mincha. So I put down the iPad, got up, davened mincha in my room. After davening, I sat write back down to continue acting out. Hours later, it's time for maariv. And I think to myself, who am I kidding? He doesn't want my prayers. Is this some sort of joke? I know I am at fault, I just don't care, because caring about it just hasn't helped me. Sometimes, I think to myself, Hashem should just take away my life, after I behave like this, then I turn around and daven mincha, as if everything is okay. Imagine a marriage, where a man is unloyal to his wife, comes home for dinner to say I love you, and then goes with another woman. Who am I fooling?

gibbor120 -
I can tell you're a veteran here. Thank you for the mekorot. I have become so numb to it, that I forgot about these mekorot. Thank you. But at the same time, I don't know if it will help - I know what I'm doing is wrong.
I am going to trust you on this one, because I know I can't trust myself anymore. Sort of when I trust my doctor even though I don't understand what he's doing. I'm going to push myself to help other people, to serve others. I will do what I can to go outside of myself. I think this will be tough, because I don't actively look to help people. But I will try.

inastruggle -
There's always room here for hijackers. I welcome it!
And what's the deal with the elephants?

guy -
35 days is amazing. Don't get down on yourself. I am looking up to you and your achievements. I hope to hit 35 days some time soon. Actually I hope to be there in 18 days. Today is day 17 for me. Don't say it's never gonna happen. I don't know how or when, but it will happen, because we're here. And because I spent the past hour writing this. And I am putting in my effort. Just as you are. I don't know how we will do this, but I know we will.


Thank you to everyone. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE keep responding. I really am learning a lot from you, and I hope to grow because of you. We're at Day 17 now, and I hope to share this experience with you all.

that's a great way to shteig

listen to em all

kotakutgw!!!!

and Guy: Day 35! that's great! We are looking for a group of "30's" to put together...either for a mezuman with pidiani, or chatzi kaddish with ezra and pischoshelmachat (who might be one and the same).

cordnoy wrote:


I'm not familiar with the rashei tevos yet...?