even if he didn't they could be at least equals

MY THREAD HAS BEEN HIJACKED! NOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

Cordnoy, Lavi, the conversation you are having is very important, maybe. I am not sure because its way much thinking for me. Maybe you could open up another thread and discuss these issues.

But no Lavi, i don't look at myself has dirt. I have come to realize how much potential i have and how much Hashem loves me!

Calling ourselves an addict doesnt mean we feel like dirt. It just means we are accepting the fact that we have a problem and we need to do our best to solve it.

like I said, to accept the fact, it is enough to think that one HAS an addiction problem....but if you feel you need to stamp addict...ok

Thank you dms, I feel very much the same way. "I have strep" or "I am sick"...is it that big of a difference?

Anyway, How's by you Daniel?

I understand where lavi is coming from. It kind of rubs me the wrong way, too, especially when people say, "but what do I know, I'm just a/n pervert/addict."

We're not JUST perverts/addicts. Our whole being should not be defined by this.

But what do I know...

Skep, I think your point is valid.

While don't think I have used the terminology that I am JUST an addict, but I definitely have stated that acceptance of this fact is crucial.
I went back to the Whitebook (l'havdil) to see what terms they use.
I'm not sure, but based on what you said, I remembered the followin' from DBT:

One acts the way they perceive themselves.
ex: I am bad....you will act bad.
I am angry...they will act angry.

they also said this with, "I am good," but I'm not sure about that.

What is the alternative?
I am actin' bad.....ok...change that.
I feel angry...ok...I understand that...you have such a right. Do you wanna remain feelin' that way?

So, with that in mind....

I am addicted....ok; let's go for it!
Hello, my name is Avrom and I am a lustaholic.....oh yea; let's go surfin'!

Instead, one can say, "I am actin' like I'm addicted," or even more, "I have addictive tendencies," or somethin' of the sort.
Is that 'acceptance'? I'm not sure, but maybe.

Now, if someone has strong convictions and workin' the program diligently with the proper support, maybe they can say, "I am a lustaholic."

Food for thought.

b'hatzlachah

I am proud to identify myself as an addict who accepted a new design for living.

I have no problem accepting that I'm addicted to the stuff, but that's just one tiny aspect of who I am. It's not my entire being / essence.

To be honest, admitting i am an addict has probably been one of the most important steps in recovery for me (second to reaching out). I think its critical that people admit they have a problem. That is definitely necessary. Not sure about calling oneself an addict and i could care less really.

ANYHOW....

I slipped hard last night. Towards the end I realized what I was doing was wrong and gross. I am taking advantage of these girlsQ! I'm raping them! But not only that i am messing up my life! I know what real life tastes life. Its so sweet and last nights feelings were totally fake. They are such an illusion.

So lust, I admit defeat. You win. I cannot best you. I don't want to try anymore. I am done. GOOD DAY!

"But dms123456789 nooooooo!!!! How could you? You're done? That's it? What kinda hypocrite are you???????????????? You are giving up?!??"

No! I am just changing my perspective. I am facing reality. I can't beat lust. In fact I can't go near it. I am changing my strategy. I am calling in a Hitman called GOD to save me! I don't need to worry about fighting. He will do it! I will just live my life and let Him take the lust away. He can deal with it.

But I can't just just say this now. Inspiration usually lasts only 4 hours. I must renew my newfound perspective at least once a day!

"I like lust. But lust consumes me. It takes over. I can't win. I will lose every time. Please Hashem, please help me! Save me! I can't do this alone. I need you and the help of others so i can properly live my life. Or else i will be out of control. I will spin down a terrible spiral of hell into a terrible stupor filled with shame, regret, depression, despair, lonelines etc.

But NO! Hashem i want to be happy! I want to live my life. I realize that life is not a piece of cake. But i would definitely rather live life than die a painful death filled with nothing but lust. So i will try to do my part and not escape from my life and You please, Hashem, deal with my lust problems.

I AM A SEX ADDICT! I AM POWERLESS TO LUST! AND I ACCEPT THAT I NEED HELP!"

dear dms,
i have tears in my eyes from the pain you are in.
please let us know if you get any inspiration, about how to make you next streak better. renewing a perspective is good, but are you sure it is good enough?

-"JUST BREATHE!!! IN AND OUT! LIFE IS GOOD!!!!!!! SMILE ."

Super surrender Daniel.

There really are only 2 ways to feel free from the addiction. One is to give in to it, one is to surrender it entirely.

Giving in tp it gives temporary relief and a fake sense of freedom from the obsession. The only other way is surrender.

Trying to not act out without surrendering the lust is just continuing the obsession without acting on it. It's frustrating, painful and torturous.

lavi wrote:


Streaks don't do too much IMO. The very word implies that it's a temporary phase of not acting out, soon to be over. As Dov said, it's like a game of ping-pong. "let's see what score I can get to before the game ends!"

Like an ever-lasting game of tetris where the goal is to keep the game going for as long of possible. But of course as the game speeds up it's impossible to go forever.

What we need is a new way of living.

Daniel, I've been a bit in and out of your thread lately, so I've forgotten, what do you do to keep sobriety? do you go to meetings? Do you work the steps? What action do you take daily to maintain spiritual fitness?

Doc,

you always have a nice way with your words.

Perhaps you can tell the oilam in your simplistic type of way the definition of surrenderin' the lust.
Please define, and please provide example.

Thank you

wow, that's a tall order.

I think that surrender has several connotations. What I mean here is that if we are addicts we cannot handle lust.

My biggest cause of relapse is that I still want to have just a little lust now and then for fun. I still want to be able to indulge in it a little, to enjoy just a little lust.

The problem is that as an addict that lust provokes a physical reaction in me and it takes over my whole being. At that point the only way I know to be free of the lust is to give in to it and act out.

So what's the answer? To not allow any lust into my life at all. Wow, that's difficult.

Well, sort of. It's only difficult for me because I still want to be able to enjoy it a little. If I really accepted that I was not going to have any lust any more and gave up my idea of trying to get it in any way, it wouldn't be so bad.

It would be like a group of friends saying "hey, we're all going out to get some lust, are you coming?"
"No thanks, I quit."

The alternative of always trying to enjoy it safely is just torture. why do that to myself? To get all hot and bothered and ready to act out but then denying myself the release. What's the point, who would even enjoy that?!

It's like a guy on a hot summer's day going to an ice cream truck and buying the most delicious ice cream he's ever had. He takes one lick and then slips and drops it. We all know that feeling. Even though we're grown men we actually get upset over the loss of the ice cream. He's desperate to taste that ice cream.

So he goes back and buys another one, takes one lick, slips and drops it. So he buys another one, takes one lick, slips and drops it. So he buys another one, takes one lick, slips and drops it, etc.

Can you imagine how annoying that must feel?

How many times does the guy need to drop his ice cream before he surrenders? Eventually he'll give up on his idea of enjoying ice cream that day. He'll throw up his arms and say "I'm never going to that ice cream truck ever again!"

As soon as he gets the idea of ice cream out of his mind he can go and enjoy the rest of his sunny afternoon. But if he keeps obsessing over the ice cream he wants he'll never be happy, it would be continued self-imposed torture.

Wow!

Thanks.

So basically the two choices are to...

1. Give in to lust (look, enjoy, act out) (surrender to it).
2. Decide that it's death for me, and I ain't goin' near it (surrender it).

b'hatzlachah