Well Alex started it.... ??? but it gave me an excuse to vent something that I otherwise didn't have the guts to post in public. And you are right, the struggle is pretty much the same, no matter what the triggers are.

That was a great idea for Edge, about asking the wife. Another idea might be one of those water massage machines like they have in the shopping malls (some Physical Therapy places have them too).

KOMT!!

Gevura!

Me too, me too.  i want to look so badly it hurts sometimes.  Last week i was alone in the car and peripherally i saw something enticing.  i literally screamed "i want to look and drink in the image so i can lust after it, HASHEM, please help me"  the effect was as good as calling a friend.  it put things into a better perspective and i went on without any residual problems.  These days with everyone talking on cell phones with blue tooths and whatever if i am on the sidewalk i will just start repeating a passuk from Tehillim while looking at my feet and everyone who sees me thinks i am on the phone, not some crazy addict talking to myself.
my 2 cents  No Never noway  say no to RMS
Hatzlacha in all things GOOD.
chaimyakov

My brother who is pretty holy said how he wished the winter weather was back so that women would cover up!  I suggested to him he look at the ground instead... he said he has "red blood".. i.e. he's only human.  my middos and his view are a good combo.  I have to do my best to look away, and if I fail now and then, hey, "I have red blood", I'm a man, progress not perfection...

Hello Holy Chevra

Not to change the subject,  but I have a strange event to report and a 'burning' recovery hashkofa question.

Strange Event:  Last night I had vivid dream about acting out.  In the dream i slipped past a fence or three, took the initiative with a women in the dream for a  lustful encounter. In the dream I was very upset that I had to start my sober day count over.  It was the first time I've seen a woman undressed in a long time (other than my wife) so it was weird to 'break' shmiras ha-ayin in my dream.  Thank G-d no emission.  I was concerned that the dream would really throw me off today, but thank G-d its kind of getting smaller quickly in my brain, not dominating the day.  Any thoughts about this?

Hashkofa Question:  What is the similarity /difference between the 'Surrender to Hashem' we discuss in recovery vs Emunas Hashem a yisod of yiddishkeit?

Eager to hear feedback by you holy Yidden, recovery godols.

Be matzliach,
Have2changeNOW

In my very unprofessional opinion.  Emunah is in theorey.  Surrender is in practice.  We all "beleive" in Hahsem, but we often "act" as if we don't.  When we act on our own will instead of surrendering to Hashem's we are "acting" in contradiction to our "belief".

Good point, Gibbor.  So then what's the difference between standard bitachon and surrender?

Perhaps we should not be using the powerful weapon of surrender for every taivah.  If I'm hungry and pass a treif restaurant, I don't need to surrender my hunger.  I can handle that one on my own with my Gcd-given willpower.  But when a trigger for my addiction comes up, whether it be visual, thought, or otherwise, then I'm getting busy surrendering the taivah.  It's my only hope.  It's a unique form of bitachon.  But there's obviously more to bitachon.

So perhaps we can say that surrender is an example of bitachon.  There are, however, many other ways we express our bitachon.  We daven for sucess.  We give tzedakah.  We pay tons of tuition.  We trust that whatever happens to us is for our very best.


Regarding the dream, don't dwell on it.  Ask Hashem to take the image and the memory and move on.

Maybe it's the difference between trusting in Hashem for everyday needs to relying on him to heal me from a dreadfull disease that the doctors have given up on. There is a higher level of bitachon we can reach when in danger - there's no athiest in a foxhole. Or better put by Shlomo Hamelech: יונתי בחגוי הסלע בסתר מדריגה הראיני את מראיך השמיעני את קולך כי קולך ערב ומראיך נאוה.

We can probably debate the itty bitty details of bitachon/surrender for pages and pages on this thread.  But, in the context of "H2CN"s question, I think my definition works pretty well, and is pretty simple.

Isn't this discussed in the sefer Emunah V'Bitachon?

I think Emunah stands for Kel Melech N'Eman.  we believe in H' and vice versa.  and every deed reflect it.  and bitachon is phonetically connected to poteach-chen, we are open to the grace of H".

the only way to achieve either of these two attributes is to surrender ("czar under"), which requires us to put the czar under (i.e. burry the czar, the tyrant, that has been ruling our evil ways).

In short, it's all one of the same, and those who try to pilpul the matter are finding ways around surrendering.

Thanks Chevra.  Very helpful indeed.  Gibbor's is simple and sweet.  Nice addition by the Edgeman!

After taking in all the explanations - feels to me like emunah is the belief that everything G-d does is for the good, and surrendering is actively giving feelings of lust, fear, disappointment, etc, over to G-d.  Works for me, I"YH 

KOT!

Be matzliach!
Have2changeNOW

Hi H2CN,
Glad to see you are progressing, we are in this pretty much together (im on day 54)
As for the dreams, I saw in a sefer that sometimes a person has a dream about future events, and he is deeply affected when those things happen in reality, and he talks about it for days and days, etc. the sefer said that he should know that it is an act of the kelipa ('evil' forces) and YH playing a joke on him, by giving him something to distract him from avoidas Hashem, so they tell him what will be in the future (because some events these forces do know, and the person forgets about Hashem, and just talks about the dream, and gets other people to think about the dream, etc, etc bekitzur an entire city can be talking about whether the dream was true or not and bekitzur hamaise a lot of bitul Torah is done. So too here, i think, the dream is just the kelpiah and the satan playing with us. Think about it, we have been in their hands so long they arent going to give up without a fight. The most important thing is not to react, and the YH will see that we are already in the hands of the Abeishter. Asides from that, my own personal experience shows that learning Mishnayos, etc bal peh and thinking them before you go to sleep really helps in this inyan. You could also recite the first 4 tehillim, which i also a segulah. The YH then sees that when he gives us these dreams all we do is mechazek in yiddishkeit and he just doesnt know what to do anymore... ;D

As for your second question, we know that in the gemorrah (brochos samech gimel, amud aleph) it says that a Jewish robber before he steals prays to Hashem and asks that no-one should see him. Ask yourself the question: If he believes in Hashem, why is he stealing? and if the answer is that he doesnt believe in stealing why is he praying? So the answer (according to chasidus) is that every Jew has emunah inside of him, but it is in a way that doesnt change the person. Its like an extra thing, added onto his existence. Therefore a Jewish robber will pray to Hashem before stealing, yidden that dont keep T&M the whole year will do mesirus nefesh to get off work and drive to shule on Yom Kippur and Rosh Hashana. we too, will lust and the very day daven like a mench and learn with 'shkeyda vehasmodo'. We had emunah - Hashem was not something that could change the very essence of our being.

Now we have to work on mesirus nefesh and completely give ourselves to Hashem. Perhaps thats bitachon. Just throwing our very being into the hands of Hashem.

If you think about it thats also Pesach...Imagine living in Egypt in a civilised (albeit difficult) system and being told we are leaving and going into some desert to get the Torah from Hashem. The yidden had to forget about their own existence and just trust in Hashem, not merely believe. Like Nachson ben Aminadav they had to just throw themselves into the hands of Hashem and trust. Thats what we have to do....and besimcha!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Thank you helpme!

Your words/thoughts are beautiful and inspiring and definitely did "helpme!"

It's nice to know we are going at about the same time line in this beautiful Road to Recovery, side by side with this holy Chevra!

I too am eager to feel I"YH differently at this seder with a new found level of leaving Mitzrayim.

Great to hear from you!

Be matzliach!
Have2changeNOW

H2CN,
Whats happening, we havent heard from you for a while!

Hello Helpme!

Great to hear from you - I really appreciate your checking in on me. I think about this holy GYE chevra everyday, and am extremely grateful for the chizuk and 'straight talk', love and support i have received in the past months!

My reasons for not posting in a while are multi-fold - and all 'operational' - my heart is still with GYE big time. First issue - my PC at home has a filter (Net Nanny) that updated and blocks me from opening my Forum threads (and most others) because of words like porn and masturbate. Then - my office situation changed - and I no longer have easy access to a private computer most days. (I do today, so I wanted to get on and update everyone - so amazing timing helpme!)

THE BIG NEWS is that i am BARUCH HASHEM, Kinayna Hara - Still clean!!!! I have joined an SA meeting, trying to go at least once a week, and HIGHLY RECOMMEND that for anyone who is really addicted! I really need the first 3 steps - and have not really gotten to Step 4 yet.

ANYWAY - I really miss the GYE Forum back and forth help and support, and look forward to getting better PC access for this - but that will not be until May at least.

For now - miss you guys, and THANKS so much over and over again to the core group who set me straight on the EMMES path back in January/February.

Be Matzliach!

Have2ChangeNOW

Well I haven't been to these forums either for a while, but unlike our good man H2CN I haven't been leading the most spiritual life. I'm not sure what happened. Whether I fell or not is not really relevant, to me anyhow. i don't care about my technical clean days since it means less than actually being in and working the programme. The short story is that while I have gone for massages / massage parlors, there has been no sexual release or culmination, which to me is pinnacle of the fall. hence I consider myself salvageable.
this week was brutal. I went for a massage on Monday, ($60), Tuesday ($80, with receipt), then yesterday, $50. this has been a very expensive week. I don't fee more relaxed from the massages, I feel worse. I'm not getting work done. I'm falling behind. I'm not focusing. Moreover yesterday's massage place looked legit, but she started to do things I didn't want, and I was like crap how do I get out of this now?? Thankfully she did not ask me to turn over for the (not so) happy ending. I'm so glad this didn't happen because I can still recover emotionally (I find that if I do actually get serviced, it sets me into an irreversible tailspin). So thankfully I'm out, but then i left and didn't feel complete.

anyhow all this to say, i'm messed up and my programme is wonky. Do I really belong in SA if I've never had S with anyone other than my wife?!