I'm so inspired by the many of you who are making such great progress, and I also want to be part of the winners! למה נגרע?!

I'm just so afraid of the heartache of failing!

In the past I had long streaks (maybe 60 days) but it came to me when I was doing very good spiritually, not that I have made any commitment then. Only when I realized that I was being clean for a while, I became conscience about it and fell shortly after.

But on the other hand, I can't wait till it will comes again, so I do have to make some kind of commitment. In many ways I feel ready to take the leap. But I'm so afraid!!! I'm so afraid of falling after counting days that I worked so hard to stay clean! It breaks my heart every time.

I know it's all coming from my screwed-up ways of thinking. I get very caught up in the numbers and it makes me super conscience about my keeping clean which ultimately leads me to fall again.

I know I will probably OCD (OCD- verb) on the quality of my cleanness. I all-of-a-sudden become so Frum with my judgments.

Anyways, I'm committing to 3 days for now...

I would suggest not to focus on the days, like today is day 4 etc. Rather each day make it through clean and keep us posted that that day was clean.
I used to post each day what day it was for me. Now I just write if that day was clean. I don't have on my head anymore what day today is.

stopsurvivingstartliving wrote on 12 Dec 2024 20:31:

I totally get it but numbers is not the entire problem

Let me explain. I have different stages in my struggle, when I go low I will actively seek to act out in many different ways. When I'm in a very good place, it doesn't take much effort to avoid lust. But when I'm somewhere in the middle I won't necessarily seek out lust but I will touch my private parts and gaze at woman by instinct. 

So, unless I make some kind of conscience effort to change these habits I will always fall back to it. I need to have awareness in order to break the habit. Even if it's not counting days it will be something else that will have to keep me aware about not looking at woman and not touching. 

Now, thinking about staying clean will help me stay clean, but in the same time will make me think more about it, and just thinking about not looking could make me look even more...

I somehow need to find the balance of being aware while not becoming hyperconscious about it.

There's still a lot of inner-work to be done!

Git Shabbos

Hows day three going? Are we going for a forth?

Heeling wrote on 15 Dec 2024 16:40:

Thank you Heellin' for checkinin... Yes, day 4 stayed clean too.

I don't see myself keeping it on for too long. I still don't have much Sipuk in my life, and there's that much I can fight. When I have Sipuk I don't have to fight as much.

Maybe it's time to address my obesity and lack of physical activity! This might be my greatest obstacle of breaking free of lust.

But Hashem, I don't even know where to begin!

dreamyunicorn28 wrote on 16 Dec 2024 17:38:

I haven't masturbated since my last update but I was viewing inappropriate clips and images yesterday. I also stimulated my penis but didn't ejaculate. I don't know if that counts as clean, but I did have some wins in the same time. 

Another win was that I did some exercise yesterday.

I feel like I can do so much better if only I get back involved in learning and watch on my weight and do exercise. I've been struggling with learning forever and I don't know how to go about that. I've already tried so many different things. I don't want to share everything publicly but I wish someone can direct me to the right resources.

youknowwho wrote on 28 Nov 2024 15:51:

Loved this post, and I wanted to comment on it for a while. There are many sources that demonstrate that תורה, עבודה and יראת שמים all are effective ways of combating the YH. Probably the most famous is the 'גמ that says בראתי יצר הרע בראתי תורה תבלין. Yet, we find that there are so many people who’s existence is in the world of תורה and מוסר/חסידות, yet they continue to struggle. While they’re actually on a high from their עבודה they’re okay, but when the high wears off, they sometimes find themselves back in the mud, wondering why the infusion of תורה and יראת שמים wasn’t effective in weakening the YH. Sometimes a dynamic משפיע helps people find a path in 'עבודת ה that resonates deeply with their נשמה, but ultimately after a while the effect on the struggle often tends to dissipate over times as the YH creeps back bit by bit. Again, what happened to everything חז"ל taught us about how involvement in רוחניות is an effective way of getting rid of the YH?

וי"ל כאן קודם החטא, כאן לאחר החטא. Undoubtedly, a mind that’s filled with קדושה, won’t desire, or have the need to be stimulated by the pleasure that the YH offers. In the famous words of the רמב"ם at the end of איסורי ביאה where he writes גְּדוֹלָה מִכָּל זֹאת אָמְרוּ יַפְנֶה עַצְמוֹ וּמַחֲשַׁבְתּוֹ לְדִבְרֵי תּוֹרָה וְיַרְחִיב דַּעְתּוֹ בַּחָכְמָה שֶׁאֵין מַחְשֶׁבֶת עֲרָיוֹת מִתְגַּבֶּרֶת אֶלָּא בְּלֵב פָּנוּי מִן הַחָכְמָה. The program that 'ה set up for us is enough to fill a person with satisfaction, any other indulgence pales in comparison to what a תורה filled life has to offer. Once the true pleasure of רוחניות is experienced, nothing else can compare. The nature of spirituality, is such that it when he is truly filled with it, it fills him with a sense of accomplishment and contentment that actually negates the desire to look for other stimuli. Problem is, that it’s very hard, perhaps impossible to maintain a spiritual high at all times. The way we are wired is that we trek our way through עליות and ירידות. There are ימי אהבה and ימי שנאה. If a person has never tasted the sweet taste of sin, he can probably manage to combat the fleeting temptations, by falling back on the general satisfaction he derives from living a תורה true lifestyle. This should usually be sufficient to get the YH off his back.

However once a person has already experienced טעם חטא, he now has taught himself that there’s an extremely effective way to numb pain and escape from reality whenever the going gets tough. The best a Mashpia usually will do for someone, is provide a path in רוחניות that strongly resonates with his followers. This works well as long as he’s on fire, but when that fire wanes (which it inevitably will), and the void(s) resurface, he will unfortunately resort to his pacifier distract himself. Rare is the Mashpia that actually helps a follower go through the arduous journey of weaning himself off his pacifier. It’s tedious, difficult work that requires experience, which the Mashpia might not necessarily have. 

Additionally, as YKW pointed out, what happens sometimes, is that since the individual was inspired and thinks that all his problems were solved, when the inspiration wears off, he will hit the bottom much harder then before, not understanding why the newly attained “spiritual high” hasn’t saved him from sin. He’s left floundering, flailing, and desperately let down by the savior who he thinks has failed him. 

Please don’t take this as a knock on Mashpiim. They do what they’re supposed to do, which is to guide someone in their 'עבודת ה. What probably works best for most people is a two pronged approach where one has the Mashpia to fill him with spirituality, and someone else in his life that understands him and the סוגיא well, so that he can help extricate him from his addiction, habits or any other negative behaviors. Often the Mashpia will be someone will be someone that can wear both hats, but this second hat, will require much more time and patience, so that he can guide him with a tailor made plan that works for him. Lucky is the person that has found the Mashpia that speaks to entire person, both the רוחניות and the healing part of his journey, but for those that haven’t, reaching out for help from other sources might necessary to fully heal.

amevakesh wrote on 01 Jan 2025 19:14:

Dearest amevakesh & YKW, I do appreciate that you’re responding to my post but I feel very misunderstood and I hate feeling misunderstood… I hope you understand : ) 

The feeling I’m getting when reading both of your responses is as follows: “Mr. dreamyunicorn has been struggling for years with P&M and instead of doing the real inner work he’s gotten involved with some Mashpia and gets pumped up by his words of Chizzuk which keeps him clean for a while but once the high settles down he’s back to square one. But even more so, this itself is keeping him away from doing the real work because he thinks he’s already doing it. Let’s wake up Mr. unicorn from his dream and knock some sense into him…”

First off, that post is merely a brief outline of my life and struggle where I’m saying that once upon a time I used to be a humongous mess, and after years of therapy and after I found this Mashpia I slowly started becoming less and less of a humongous mess. I’m not saying that this is the approach I took to healing, nor am I taking a stance on the issue of  “Healing from P&M - The Mashpia Approach vs The Two Pronged Approach”.

The fact is that through this Mashpia I became a much healthier person in every area of my life; including lust. It’s just the fact. If you can’t imagine a Mashpia having such an effect, either stop projecting your idea of a Mashpia on to my Mashpia or I’m willing to give up the term Mashpia and call him something else - Dentist perhaps. In any case, please don’t discount what I’m saying about the “real” progress I made.

As for this low I reached after 3 years that I didn’t think was possible, wasn’t about P&M; it was about my mental health and Yiddishkeit in general. I don’t think any program related to P&M could have prevented that.

Anyways, I agree with both of you on all the things you're saying I just don't think this would be your response if you would have read my post with more care. I’m guilty of it too sometimes.

dreamyunicorn28 wrote on 02 Jan 2025 19:32:

Nu???

When are you takeh gonna wake up?!

Kidding.

Feeling misunderstood is a yucky kind of feeling. To clarify, I was TOTALLY not lecturing you that you should wake up and smell the coffee. I genuinely understood your words to be an experience you were sharing, specifically, that your "Mashpiac Experience"  did not suffice to get you out of the mud.

Just meant to share that I'd been through that too. Not to lecture you about waking up. 

But you're saying that's not been your experience, soooooo....I guess we now have one less thing in common!

Stay well,

- A "striving to read your posts more carefully so that I shan't ever be guilty Moldy Voldy" 





​

youknowwho wrote on 02 Jan 2025 22:16:

YKW I appreciate your witty redress to a volatile snappy snowflake. Please don't dare misunderstanding this!!! 

dreamyunicorn28 wrote on 02 Jan 2025 19:32:

I apologize profusely if my tone came across as lecturing. My words were honestly not directed at you per say, I was just trying to project the general idea. I definitely never would comment on your Mashpia, especially since I don't know who he is, but I think that I made it quite clear (in bold now), that multi talented people are out there that do wear both hats. I'm truly happy for you that you've discovered one of these special individuals. My post reflected my own personal experience. The person I look up to in my life, is someone who I've been privileged to absorb much from in the past and continue to do soon a constant basis. I think that he's G-d's gift to humanity for many reasons, I admire him to no end. That being said, in this area, I've received very little if any direction. It might be because I was afraid to ask, I do feel the need to have him think of me in a certain way. He doesn't know about my past, and I would honestly be uncomfortable sharing it with him. He does inspire me to no end, but until I came to GYE, I was floundering. I'm sure that there are many here that can relate. That's the context my words were written from. Again, my sincere apologies.

I have such an ingrained habit of touching my penis, and it's happening subconsciously even without feeling aroused. Same with staring at woman. I don't have any control over it.

I masturbate on average once or twice a week but I never stop touching myself. Every night I touch myself to sleep, my hands just go there without any thought.

I'm powerless!

Twenty years ago I would shake every time I touched myself - let alone masturbated - knowing that I have crossed a red line but that red line has long disappeared. It became so normal. On a day to day basis I don't even feel like I'm having a problem, unless I act out more severely like porn and chats. 

But every now and then it hits me how far I am from being clean! I still remember that innocent child who wouldn't put his hands under his belt because he didn't want to be "Farchapt in Sheol Tachtis".

This an amzing post gave me so much chizzuk!! thank you im a week clean today!

dreamyunicorn28 wrote on 06 Jan 2025 23:14:

Maybe you should start with a small Kaballa? Today I will not touch my penis! And then be aware of it, its not so hard to obstain for 1 day. Once you do that more and more, you will be able to create a distance and changing the habit into something that is not done. It is a very important geder to keep us back from getting aroused. 
Think about your Bris as a Holy Sefer Torah. It is just as holy btw. 
Would you just go around touching a sefer torah for fun? NO, why? Because it will land you in Sheol Tachtis? NO, because its HOLY and its not to be used as a toy. 
Same thing is your Bris Kodesh. All the Shefa in this world comes down thru Yesod, its too holy and too important to play around with it. That would be true even if doesnt lead to MZL. 

Find a better thing to touch when going to sleep.......... How about your Tzitzis???? Thats holy enough..........

dreamyunicorn28 wrote on 06 Jan 2025 23:14:

You've successfully achieved step 1 of SA!
You're a step closer towards sobriety!
Keep going my friend!
All you need to do now is to allow G''D into your life and ask him to guide you and to help you find the tools that will work for you...
As the Gemara says, the YH is too great "and if not for Hashems help it is impossible to beat him!" (Sukka 52b).
It's something that I myself also only got to understand in recent months. My powerlessness and my dependency on Hashem. It's a good feeling. You no longer blame yourself but rather feel hopeful and connected.

Keep us posted,
חזק ואמץ,
UpAndDown