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What role do yeshivas play here?
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TOPIC: What role do yeshivas play here? 751 Views

What role do yeshivas play here? 17 Feb 2021 23:39 #363622

  • Aaron613
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I’m newly married and was having an open discussion with my wife about my struggles in the past with shmiras habris and shmiras einayim and how many (if not most) guys have at some point has this struggle. She asked why don’t yeshivas confront this issue and help out the Bachurim. I didn’t have an answer. This has actually been bothering me for a few years now while. Other than a select few yeshivas out there, most mainstream yeshivas do not confront this prevelant issue at all. All I’ve ever heard is “we have to be so careful in these inyanim!”...very nice shmooze but not so helpful. In today’s perverted world there is such a need for rabbeim to deal with it head on.  It’s only natural that young men are going to pursue the sexual culture that is being shoved in our faces. The mehalech has always been that yeshivas don’t talk openly about this topic because it will get people thinking about it (in a bad way). We just can’t keep working with that, Yeshiva bachurim are dying inside and doing things they don’t want to but are falling and need a helping hand ( i know I was), it’s about time our rabbeim deal with it in a real and tangible way and not just a shmooze once a year about kedusha. 
I could be wrong here and I’m happy to hear other opinions. 

Re: What role do yeshivas play here? 18 Feb 2021 06:32 #363650

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, Yeshiva bachurim are dying inside and doing things they don’t want to but are falling and need a helping hand ( i know I was)

This was me
unfortunately so many bochurim are suffering and this issue isn't a front burner.

One who has given up hope is without a G‑d.

One who sees hope in each day is already free

Re: What role do yeshivas play here? 18 Feb 2021 07:16 #363654

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Zedj wrote on 18 Feb 2021 06:32:


, Yeshiva bachurim are dying inside and doing things they don’t want to but are falling and need a helping hand ( i know I was)

This was me
unfortunately so many bochurim are suffering and this issue isn't a front burner.

But you guys did find GYE, no?
Check out My thread

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Re: What role do yeshivas play here? 18 Feb 2021 08:41 #363658

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I only ever heard of gye a few years after marriage, when I was working. 
I should have been here since I was about 10
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Re: What role do yeshivas play here? 18 Feb 2021 09:05 #363661

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starting wrote on 18 Feb 2021 08:41:
I only ever heard of gye a few years after marriage, when I was working. 
I should have been here since I was about 10

I get that. My point is that to publicly educate our Yeshivah bochurim may do more harm than good. I am suggesting instead that we promote speaking about what kind of help is available, that we promote educating parents about what their children can be doing so that they can help them on a person to person basis.

While it's true that there are some mechanchim who are oblivious, I've spoken to many (not for help, HPO) and by and large they know what's going on. They are trying to tweak the system but change is difficult. I think they aren't addressing this publicly in front of teen agers for a reason.

Why we don't address adults at large is a different story and I would love for someone to come up with a way to do it without hurting anyone.

Seems like Rabbi Twerski was the only one so far who was able to do it.
Check out My thread

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Re: What role do yeshivas play here? 18 Feb 2021 12:06 #363666

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Fascinating topic - thank you!

Is it possible to link this to the age old question of education from parents vs. education from school? I know some parents who think it's the school's responsibility to educate their children in ALL areas. I personally prefer to try my best as a parent. I'm sure I'll mess up, but at least I can only blame myself!

So I guess my view is Schools / yeshivas are for learning. Is it their responsibility to help boys struggling, yes. But it's limited as it's really fr the parents. 

​Also, is is possible that we (who struggle) are the minority and that actually, we shouldn't be introducing these ideas? Another old question. With my own sons I try to tread a middle path. We'll see how that goes. 
I had a nearly 3yr streak and slipped slightly so started again. I have low self esteem so I'm telling you that 

Re: What role do yeshivas play here? 18 Feb 2021 12:21 #363667

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I get that. My point is that to publicly educate our Yeshivah bochurim may do more harm than good.

May i ask you is the harm you are concerned about? 

Re: What role do yeshivas play here? 18 Feb 2021 14:42 #363682

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This has been discussed at length on this thread:
https://www.guardyoureyes.com/forum/17-Balei-Battims-Forum/213041-Yeshiva-didnt-prepare-us
I personally don't think that trying to find fault in "the system" is healthy, for any area, let alone addiction or whatever you want to call it. 

I heard a rabbi for at-risk teens once say to his "boys": "For years, I defended you and allowed you to blame everyone. Your parents who didn't care, your uncle who molested you, your school that kicked you out, etc. But, at a certain point, you have to get up off your behind and ask yourself what YOU are going to do with your life."
We have all been dealt a heavy hand. Whether it's our marriage, our schools, or everyone around us. The question we have to ask ourselves is what WE are going to do about it. And I think that is how we have to educate our kids too. They need to know that no matter what their yeshivos deal with or don't, they can ask any question they want from us without fear of being put down, and we can say "I don't know" and then go find an answer.
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Re: What role do yeshivas play here? 18 Feb 2021 14:52 #363685

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GYE just published a book from the teachings of Rabbi Efraim Glassman 
guardyoureyes.com/ebooks/item/ozer-bigevurah 
Here is an excerpt from the introduction:

Challenges in inyonei kedushah are one of the most sensitive topics. It’s a topic we wish we wouldn’t have to talk about, but unfortunately, these issues are more common than we would like to imagine them being. We are all aware of how fast the world is changing. We are living in an era that is becoming increasingly difficult and tempting, and the challenges our children and talmidim face are at a level which the generations before us never envisioned or had to deal with. Therefore, the many Gedolim with whom I have consulted feel that it is a mechanech’s obligation to understand the challenge, as well as how to help those who struggle with it.
"If I am not for myself, who will be for me? But if I am only for myself, who am I? If not now, when?"
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Re: What role do yeshivas play here? 18 Feb 2021 19:50 #363695

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Lizhensk wrote on 18 Feb 2021 14:42:
This has been discussed at length on this thread:
https://www.guardyoureyes.com/forum/17-Balei-Battims-Forum/213041-Yeshiva-didnt-prepare-us
I personally don't think that trying to find fault in "the system" is healthy, for any area, let alone addiction or whatever you want to call it. 

I heard a rabbi for at-risk teens once say to his "boys": "For years, I defended you and allowed you to blame everyone. Your parents who didn't care, your uncle who molested you, your school that kicked you out, etc. But, at a certain point, you have to get up off your behind and ask yourself what YOU are going to do with your life."
We have all been dealt a heavy hand. Whether it's our marriage, our schools, or everyone around us. 

You make a VERY true point. 
However, if I may add. The conversation here may be less about placing blame and more about understanding what can be done so others don't have to go through what so many here are going through...

Re: What role do yeshivas play here? 18 Feb 2021 21:17 #363704

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starting wrote on 18 Feb 2021 08:41:
I only ever heard of gye a few years after marriage, when I was working. 
I should have been here since I was about 10

I first started lurking here when I was not much older than that...
For the background to my name- see Tanya פרק טו.
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Re: What role do yeshivas play here? 18 Feb 2021 21:20 #363705

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bego wrote on 18 Feb 2021 12:06:
Fascinating topic - thank you!

Is it possible to link this to the age old question of education from parents vs. education from school? I know some parents who think it's the school's responsibility to educate their children in ALL areas. I personally prefer to try my best as a parent. I'm sure I'll mess up, but at least I can only blame myself!

So I guess my view is Schools / yeshivas are for learning. Is it their responsibility to help boys struggling, yes. But it's limited as it's really fr the parents. 

​Also, is is possible that we (who struggle) are the minority and that actually, we shouldn't be introducing these ideas? Another old question. With my own sons I try to tread a middle path. We'll see how that goes. 

Spoke to a mechanech lately and he said the issue with smartphones and internet would be easily resolved if parents didn’t have their heads buried in the sand...
I’m paraphrasing...
For the background to my name- see Tanya פרק טו.
״שההפרש בין עובד אלוקים לצדיק הוא שעובד הוא לשון הווה, שהוא באמצע העבודה״
-Oived Elokim means a constant work in progress...
Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
- Arthur Ashe
“Every saint has a past, and every sinner has a future”.

My old thread

My current thread 

Re: What role do yeshivas play here? 18 Feb 2021 21:22 #363707

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Shmuel wrote on 18 Feb 2021 19:50:

Lizhensk wrote on 18 Feb 2021 14:42:
This has been discussed at length on this thread:
https://www.guardyoureyes.com/forum/17-Balei-Battims-Forum/213041-Yeshiva-didnt-prepare-us
I personally don't think that trying to find fault in "the system" is healthy, for any area, let alone addiction or whatever you want to call it. 

I heard a rabbi for at-risk teens once say to his "boys": "For years, I defended you and allowed you to blame everyone. Your parents who didn't care, your uncle who molested you, your school that kicked you out, etc. But, at a certain point, you have to get up off your behind and ask yourself what YOU are going to do with your life."
We have all been dealt a heavy hand. Whether it's our marriage, our schools, or everyone around us. 

You make a VERY true point. 
However, if I may add. The conversation here may be less about placing blame and more about understanding what can be done so others don't have to go through what so many here are going through...

I think we should all enter the chinuch field. Whoever is capable enough and isn’t tied down by anything. That’s the only solution that’s coming to me...
For the background to my name- see Tanya פרק טו.
״שההפרש בין עובד אלוקים לצדיק הוא שעובד הוא לשון הווה, שהוא באמצע העבודה״
-Oived Elokim means a constant work in progress...
Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
- Arthur Ashe
“Every saint has a past, and every sinner has a future”.

My old thread

My current thread 

Re: What role do yeshivas play here? 19 Feb 2021 00:40 #363726

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OivedElokim wrote on 18 Feb 2021 21:20:

bego wrote on 18 Feb 2021 12:06:
Fascinating topic - thank you!

Is it possible to link this to the age old question of education from parents vs. education from school? I know some parents who think it's the school's responsibility to educate their children in ALL areas. I personally prefer to try my best as a parent. I'm sure I'll mess up, but at least I can only blame myself!

So I guess my view is Schools / yeshivas are for learning. Is it their responsibility to help boys struggling, yes. But it's limited as it's really fr the parents. 

​Also, is is possible that we (who struggle) are the minority and that actually, we shouldn't be introducing these ideas? Another old question. With my own sons I try to tread a middle path. We'll see how that goes. 

Spoke to a mechanech lately and he said the issue with smartphones and internet would be easily resolved if parents didn’t have their heads buried in the sand...
I’m paraphrasing...

i agree on 2 points
yes we as parents are sunk into our smartphone and we give it to our kids no problem.

I think this issue is an issue that cannot be just pointed towards one specific area. I think we are not open enough about it in general. When I was 5 i asked my mother where does the baby come out from, she answered me if i dont know by 18 years of age she will tell me. our parents had no idea how to talk about sex and sexual desires. Our yeshiva's had no idea how to deal with a boy who is having issues. they just throw them out. 
only now it is coming to the forefront how to answer.
i spent a year as an eltere bochur in a very prestigious mesivta and a boy from a very respectful family told me that he wants to kiss a girl.
i told him that it is amazing and that there is a special time for that, when he does it right when he gets married. i did not push away his feeling. he is human.

  

Re: What role do yeshivas play here? 19 Feb 2021 13:56 #363766

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OivedElokim wrote on 18 Feb 2021 21:20:

bego wrote on 18 Feb 2021 12:06:
Fascinating topic - thank you!

Is it possible to link this to the age old question of education from parents vs. education from school? I know some parents who think it's the school's responsibility to educate their children in ALL areas. I personally prefer to try my best as a parent. I'm sure I'll mess up, but at least I can only blame myself!

So I guess my view is Schools / yeshivas are for learning. Is it their responsibility to help boys struggling, yes. But it's limited as it's really fr the parents. 

​Also, is is possible that we (who struggle) are the minority and that actually, we shouldn't be introducing these ideas? Another old question. With my own sons I try to tread a middle path. We'll see how that goes. 

Spoke to a mechanech lately and he said the issue with smartphones and internet would be easily resolved if parents didn’t have their heads buried in the sand...
I’m paraphrasing...

Smartphones were probably 1% of my problem growing up. No disrespect to this mechanech, but blaming porn and masturbation on a smartphone is extremely narrow-minded.
Kind of like blaming the matches when a pyromaniac lights a fire. Yes, the people around shouldn't leave matches lying around. But the pyromaniac will find another way to light a fire anyway
Life is Like a Bicycle: If its easy, you're going downhill
Hashem, If I can't have what I want, then please teach me to want what I have -Unknown (and if u know who it was please inform me)
(1+2)x4=3
There is NOTHING wrong with feeling pain -My Sponsor
I will not act out today, I will tomorrow. Maybe when I get to tomorrow, it will again be 'today'
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