I'm starting a new thread to crystallize a major problem which I think I need to make progress on over time. I've been aware of this problem for a while. I conveniently keep overlooking this problem, because it hurts me just to think about working on it. I hope that by having a thread about it I will remember that the problem is there and it colors a lot of my other issues.

Is mzl really equal to zero or greater than zero? That's the problem.

In random order.

When I was going to SA meetings years I did not call people for help because I felt I was imposing.

I was supposed to meet someone from GYE the other day and I was afraid to waste his time.

When I really want to live with my wife I feel like I'm a burden.

When my wife threw me out of the house, years ago, I called my Rebbi after not calling him for three years. He told me to call him back after Shabbos. I told him I have a problem calling people. He told I'd need to force myself. I think he may have called me instead.

I used to have a therapist and friend. When I quit the therapy I said I would call him but I knew I wouldn't. I called him once with a question and never again.

My old shul Rav really cares about me. I was afraid to ask him questions. When he forced me to sit next to him once in front of everyone I think I started weeping.

At work I'm a superstar but I have no relationships that are not about work, except for one guy who was in big trouble and needed help.

I have a friend who I helped years ago and since then I never go visit him.

My wife always remarks how when I need help with little projects on my house I don't ask for help.

Since I'm worth so little, I feel like it's a huge burden on others to go up to them for no particular reason. It's logical. I'm being very logical. It's a case of garbage in, garbage out.

mzl > 0 ?

Hi Mzl, I could tell you with certainty that you are a lot more then 0 - there isn't a person on this earth who is a 0, but I'd rather ask you a question. 
Do you think that perhaps you are thinking these "down" thoughts based on a way that you are feeling these days? I'm not making assumptions, but rather asking if it possible that a, few weeks ago you didn't feel yourself to be a 0 (which you're clearly not) and in a few weeks from now, you will also reconize some of your great self worth?

stillgoing wrote on 25 Oct 2018 16:03:

I think you are saying that I may be depressed and that I'm feeling worthless. But I'm not feeling worthless. I just wrote down some facts because how my brain thinks is obscured by my need to feel worthwhile, so I can only tell for sure what I think by looking at what I do. You can't ask someone what they think or want etc.

Two little miracles today:

1) I had to help somebody who sent me lots of tasks all day, and the tasks were repetitive, tedious, and low-value. But I was happy to help this person because she really needed help. And she was super apologetic about it all day. Therefore, if I can enjoy getting bugged by others, why can't I let other people do it for me?

2) I ended up having a business meeting with my sole personal friend at work. I told him something that happened to me yesterday that wasn't related, and he seemed pretty captivated. Maybe when I bug other people I have something to give them, I just don't always know in advance?

Thank you G-d for pointing out these things.

There are courses that help people learn how to approach others with confidence. How to assert themselves in a healthy way, learn how to ask for a favor where the one being asked is made comfortable enough to say no, and how to be at ease in public settings. Maybe such a course would be helpful.

Today somebody at work was really getting on my nerves by insulting my intelligence, underestimating me, second guessing my observations and conclusions, and trying to use me to do something for them that would show that I was wrong.

But reminding myself that the thing that was bothering me was that I was being vastly underestimated quickly calmed me down.

I think I put my finger on the problem. I think the thought process behind the behaviors above can be that I'm not important. The proof is that I speak  up very easily.

I think the key is that at work I don't feel like a nobody. I could walk into any meeting and feel totally comfortable. I think the issue is that in frum company I'm a nobody, and the reason is that I'm achievement motivated. Frum men's achievements are first of all learning, and I don't have enough to view myself as special. I'm a super husband and father (sometimes) but being a pushover for your wife's every need us not an achievement for a frum guy.

I think the issue may be simple fear of rejection. That could be overcome by going up to people and accumulating a lot of rejections.

On this topic I was thinking that when one is in the company of addicts all the time one can start tying his self esteem to being an addict. That way if normal life doesn't deliver a sense of worth then one can get it in face to face meetings, listening to other addicts, etc.

I'm pretty sure I wear the skirt at home now. I'm the one that likes making three different suppers for my kids.

Beats being single and acting out on the couch!