I agree with everything "curious George" has said on this topic.

I definitely think masturbation should have a seperate count from pornography. I mean, masturbation, although it is very serious, I don't think it is as bad as pornography. Am I wrong?

And I don't think this is boring...

My understanding of this inyan is that any thoughts or actions in the pursuit of lusting are problematic... for me, anyway, to make a distinction along the lines of "X is not as bad as Y" could very well be me trying to give myself a "heter" for doing things which are still completely assur. But this is just me, and where I'm holding (where ever that is).

And when it comes to posting my clean-day streak... again, for just me anyway, I find that dwelling too much on that causes me to start feeling that "everything's ok", etc... causing me to drop my guard, at least a little bit. And for me, that's bad... doing that has materially contributed to my subsequent acting out, c"v. Yes, I still want to track how long my good streak is - I'm certainly all for positive reinforcement, but for me anyway, I must not allow myself to go too far with it... hence, for now anyway, I don't see myself posting my clean streak under my name.

Hope this is helpful.

And hope everyone has a frelichen Purim!

-- Larry

A Frelichen Purim to you too!

I totally agree with Larry on the murky line between just looking and acting out. For me, those two categories are just positions on a spectrum, flags along the way on the path to acting out. Plus -- and I'm sure a lot of people here could relate to this -- I've never been able to look at shmutz, etc., without finishing the proposition (without self-gratification). It's part of my all or nothing mentality, maybe, or just my addict's logic speaking -- "why not finish what you started?"

But, yeah, Larry summed it up nicely: any slight capitulation to going down the path of shmutz is tantamount to a heter to go full-on bonkers. We all know this. It's textbook, Addict behavior 101. Give us an inch, we'll take Texas.

So, I'm very satisfied with the rules of engagement, if you will, stipulated on the GYE 90-day chart page. There are slips, which are largely incidental and accidental, and there are falls, which we all understand as crossing a line (whether or not we want to admit them to ourselves). We're NOT supposed to be rationalizing lustful behavior in any way; that simply spells failure.

doingtshuva wrote:
sorry, it was a joke (bad one I guess), you said "Gibbor" so I chimed in as if you were calling me.

serenity wrote:


The fact that your day went through Clean, is the most positive sign in your recovery.
Don't take these days for granted, if we stop being on guard just for a moment we (can) fall

GYEmember wrote:

Gye-member -It looks like it's not so boring anymore, thanks for your compliment

Someone trying to recover asked R' Shais Taub
I'm B"H clean for 6 month form pornography, and I'm really trying to be Heilig.
But my question is: why is pornography and masturbating considered the same?
Isn't pornography worse?
Or I must be clean from both if I want to be able to recover from my addiction?

I am trying very hard to be clean from masturbating and I'm also working on my Shmiras Einiem.
I'm not looking for a Heter to masturbate Ch"V, just sometimes it's very hard for me to hold myself back.
Thanks in advance.


R' Shais response
Wow, I don't know what to say.
You're sort of blowing my mind. Pornography is worse than masturbating? Really?
I can't even understand that hava amina.
That's like saying that looking at a McDonald's billboard is worse than staying home and cooking basar b'chalav in your own kitchen.



I have nothing to add
Do you?

TalmidChaim wrote:


We'er all waiting to see you back on the chart.
Remember every clean day stays our forever.
We may not let one fall bring another fall even in the same day.
Our Y.H. can tell us, lets have some fun today we are anyways off the chart
But NO, we wont give in again!
Keep yourself strong a proud for being a holy Jew.

By me, I don't rmember if I ever looked at pornography without masturbating afterwards.
That's why I said I think pornography is worse.

Gye member - dont take it personally.
I once thought like you, we are all learning
I was able without.

GYEmember wrote:


Just for the record, and not for the sake of disagreein'....this was done plenty a time....prolonged gratification.

I just fell one day after another,
1 minute on the computer in the wrong direction and 43 days starts from 0

I can't decide if I'll display my streak in the future.
Today is a hard day for me, it's hard to stand up,all my bones are hurting.
I may not let one fall lead to another.

The small moment of false pleasure wasn't worth to loose my sobriety.

I'm so sorry to hear that. However, I will say that I've been impressed with you and your posts.

Remember, your 43 days, (WOW!!! it is hard for me to imagine even 2 weeks!) NEVER are taken away from you. Each day, and moment, are stored away for your in the world to come-you don't lose them.

From what I have read around here, it seems that we will always have the (for lack of a better word) chance to fall. It always can happen (be done). We must be mindful of that.

Just pick yourself up and add to your treasure house of reward by accumulating as many clean days as possible.

I've been thinking, "what is the point of life if it begins and ends so quickly."
One answer is, for the time in the middle. Another answer is, to prepare the food which will be eaten in olam haboh.
Surely, you enjoyed the time of sobriety in middle, that is worth quite a bit.

Additionally, it is like you are a chef preparing a lavish meal. You have a limited number of eggs and flour and lettuce etc. You drop one egg on the floor-it is gone. Do you stop what you are doing, and sit down to cry and moan because of one egg, which will never be again? Of course not. True, you had a limited number, but you are a gourmet chef. Certainly, you can think of a new recipe which will work without that egg. Just get wrapped up in the cooking! You will look at everything you prepared, once it is laid out, and you will be amazed at how much there is, how good it looks, and how good it tastes.

So too here. We are all preparing meals for ourselves. We make a mistake, let us not stop to moan, let's move on and do what we can while we still have time.

G-d gives us these urges, he knows we may fall, yet he is ready to pick us up again right away. Otherwise, why do we not drop dead right away. It truly is a chesed of HaShem.

We care about you:)

Gye member
I must thank you for all your warm words and Chizuk, it really touched me and I'm taking them to hart.

Believe me 43 days was not an easy work at all, so by falling I feel that the work was useless.

I think I got to let off of the feelings.

Do you know who has the most sobriety? The person who woke up the earliest this morning and hasn't acted out today. We only have today.

9494 wrote:


It's just to public for me when things aren't going so good.