Hello.

I have been involved with P&M for around 10 years. I am now 22.

My mind often takes regular words that I hear and say, and twists them in my head to be saying something bad.

Does it just take time of being clean to stop having perverse thoughts?

I usually brush away the thoughts, but it bothers me that I have them.

Any thoughts on the matter?

For me it's been 30+ years, and I have the same problem. All those years i looked for a little "hit" everywhere I could find it, and I turned everything into a trigger. And now it still follows me around. So many ordinary words and phrases, I see a double meaning everywhere.

All I can do is tell myself "Oops, I did it again..." and move on.

Perhaps wait till you are clean from impure actions before you start to tackle the impure thoughts

I would like if unanumun could expand more . My question is , it is clear and simple that actions follow thoughts . Every action had a Mother or Father thought that preceded it. The same with emotions there is always a thought that gives birth to a certain emotion. So i would think that there should be something that has to be done about the thoughts if i would like to have them cleared.

There are two kinds of impure thoughts. Those that make you act out as a result of the thoughts. And then there are times that impure thoughts cross the mind for me it happened sometimes even during davening or while walking in the street etc.
To be disturbed by the first kind of thoughts is just silly. The problem is that you acted out. That's what you should be bothered by.
The only concern that one can have is the second kind. And to that my point was that one should not be concerned until he stops acting out.

Either way the solution is not the thoughts. At least it wasn't in my experience. The solution was finding the source of the lusting.

I once wrote this: Mikvah thread

Here's the text: Although I do not know what specifically I will write, for it is not clear to me, I think it is important for me (and perhaps for others as well) to describe that which is going on inside of me (to the best of my ability).

I am not saying that this change is due to sa meetings; perhaps it is coincidental, perhaps not.

# 1 and this is the honest truth....in the past several years when I would begin shemoneh esrei (and this is the truth, as strange as it may sound), I would think of myself in a certain sexual position (always the same) with a female (wife, Romanian, fantasy land); then, I would begin traveling thru the tefillah...in many directions, not necessarily sexual, but usually without too much kavanah. For the last while ...100 days, 150, 200, not sure exactly, this introduction has stopped. In the last several weeks, however, my introduction to shemoneh esrei has been with, "Dear God, here I am...." I usually would conclude sim shalom with a verbal tefillah for sobriety, for myself and others (especially a ben m).

# 2 in the past 8 months, when a sexual thought would enter my mind, which happened often enough, it would either escalate, or there would be a fight within to control it (some will call this "whiteknuckling"), or I would distract it, or I would "blow it up" at times. there was no set tool. Now, and this happened subconsciously, for I didn't even realize this until some time afterwards, when such a thought enters my mind (and they still do, although perhaps not as frequent), I find myself doing two things. either I say to myself, "what do you need this for? you know that no good will come out of it," and it quickly and quietly dissipates (without a struggle), or, and this seems to me a big one, I find myself thinking about God, and that thought naturally (without any thoughts of sin and gehinnom) replaces those sexual thoughts.

Attribute it to whatever you like, but that is what's happening. If I would still go to my therapist, I would tell him this. I will tell it to my group on MOnday, although there might be a conflict in time.

Perhaps this is what TZ has said: "He has now found God."
Perhaps on a deeper level, this is what sonoftheking has been saying (and obviously it is said in nefesh hachaim and others at length): ein od milvado! even our sexual thoughts are in fact God. when removing this mask, it is only natural that God shows up.
Perhaps this is what Dov has been saying when he has repeated that us chronic lust addicts are "worshipping" sex (our penises and sweet porn, as he so fondly states).

Whatever....I am pleased with the change, and I will continue working on it.

Thank you

b'hatzlachah

unanumun wrote:


My concern is regarding the 2nd kind.

Thank you for the insight.

Thank you so much everyone, and especially cordnoy for your lengthy post.

Cordnoy, you said that you think about G-d and that replaces the bad thoughts.
This seems like a high level, how can I achieve this. Is it difficult?

I don't know if that's what I said, and I am far from a high level.

my point of quotin' that was just to show you that it can be done.

b'hatzlachah

are they helpful to you?
is said thoughts beneficial for the mitzvah?
does your wife think about it as well?
what would happen if there were no thoughts beforehand?

Hi GYEmember
Besides your impure thoughts which I don't think you are to blame for, how is it going in general?

It's good to know that there are people that are clean and sober but still have impure thoughts. But if were not yet sober it's impossible to have pure thoughts.
Keep up
Git Shabose

If you would have asked me that question a week or so ago, I would have said that I think It finally clicked in me-that I was done. I am a bachur who would like to get married sometime in the not-so-distant future. I have not started dating, partially because of this problem.

I thought to myself as follows: if I keep this up, my marriage can have tremendous tzaros, chas v'shalom. I must stop now! This thought, combined with basically having a good filter which I don't usually get around, plus gedarim like not staying up past when everyone in my family has gone to bed and not bringing my computer into my room=, made me think I was ok. I knew that it really is an each day battle. (However, I still can't reconcile the 90 days with the each and every day needs chizuk idea.)
This worked for 10 or 11 days of complete cleanliness.

Then, there I fell to hotza'as zera a few times over a few days. Then pornography was done by me.

However, I will say that it used to be, I would look at porn, then hotza'as zerah, and I would often look for a while afterwards at porn, then sometimes I was motzi again. Or, I would sometimes prolong the hotza'a and look for a while.
(I'm sorry for being so explicit)

This past time however, right after I was motzi, I closed the browser tabs without looking..

I guess I am getting better.

Also, my shmiras ainayim in the street has been much better. I can almost all of the time not look once I see her out of the corner of my eye. If not this, I can almost always turn my eyes away before it is assur in halacha.

So I guess I am getting better for real.

Gut Shabbos heilige GYE oilam!

Gut voch. Over Shabbos, I had the courage to tell my problem to my mother and to other people in my family, as I feel it will help me if they know.