Dr.Watson wrote:


CAN A MODERATOR OR SOME1 REMOVE THE BOTTOM HALF OF THE PHOTOGRAPH PLEEEEEEEASE???

Wow, I missed that one, thanks for requoting it so that I saw the picture! And thank G-d the lower half does not bother me enough. I can just not look at it if I do not want to. Yes, there are hairy and fat-bellied people like I am and there is still hope for us.

Is it something else? Don't be afraid. Just say it. After all, aren't we all anonymous - even to each other - here? There can't possibly be any shame here, cuz nobody here knows who you are, so just say what it's about, man.

Sorry Shivisi, it never occurred to me that someone would find that picture problematic. Deleted.

hama'avir al midosav ma'avirin memenu al kol psha'av

Thank you very much.

Thanks for that post, kilochalu. I need some of that. Please pray for me to do that more with Hashems help if you don't mind, seriously.

And BTW, regarding the beautiful Chaza"l u quoted. 'Ma'avir al midosav' means one thing, to me: Surrender. Also known as Mesiras nefesh. Surrenderring to His Will, right now in this thing that's happening or not happening. Mesiras - means giving over, surrendering it over to another [look it up 'surrender' in a dictionary :) ], and Nefesh - means my wants ['nefesh' means personal preference, as in "im yeish es nafshechem," "nafsheinu kotza b'lechem haklokeil," and many other references in the Torah]. Surrendering my pride, honor, fear, expectations, or whatever I am feeling desperate to hang onto or get at that moment is what I can be ma'avir on. They are my middos, or measures of self. And most often they are not evil in any way. But I agree with the AA's that they block G-d in me for they are ego.




If I can just darshen a thingy that is near and dear to me (nafshi! ), I 'd like to... Thanks:

The gemora in Brachos has a drosha to explain the place of saying brachos before we eat. There are two pesukim: One says the earth and all in it belongs to Hashem - the other says the heavens belong to G-d, but the earth is given over to people. A contradiction.

It answers that the first posuk is "before a brocha" and the second is "after a brocha". The brocha makes the food change from being G-d's, to belonging to the person.

Now I ask you, what exactly happens in the formula of a brocha that accomplishes that for a yid (or maybe even a gentile?)? And furthermore, isn't it sad? Here we could be eating food that so much more holy. It's G-d's! And yet, He wants us to make a brocha first, then it is no longer His, but ours - and only then can we eat it. If it is now ours it is certainly of less kedusha now. C'mon, is He stingy?

So let's see: Does the brocha say anything about gratitude? No, it does not. "Boruch atoh" clearly does not mean 'thank you'. Does it ask for permission at all? Not really. It is very focused on one simple thing: It declares that this stuff is made by G-d.

But so what? What is so important about the fact that He made it? And secondly, didn't we plant it, harvest it, and even bake it, too (as in baking bread, which we then say He "brings forth out of the ground" (really now?!)? Don't we get some credit? Why pretend we really did nothing at all and just ignore our part in the food's existence in the form it's present form?

I propose that the brocha says one thing, and that thing changes it all. It says: You, G-d made the stuff this is made of - so it is your property. "Konei hakol" means the buyer/owner of everything. He made it, so it is intrinsically His (jusr as much as we are). When we make a table, it does not need us to continue to exist, at all, because we did not make it. We just formed it. So we do not have a natural relationship with it, either. And that is all a brocha is saying. No 'please' and no 'thank You'.

But why does that change ownership and allow us to 'have' it? Especially given that here we are, saying it is not ours!? And if even we are as much His as are the food - what does us 'having' it really mean? Mah sh'konoh eved kono rabbo, no?

The answer that I like best is Hashem's gift to us in the beautiful 3rd step:

We can give everything (or at least some things) to Him. Whether it's all His, or not, does not really matter. This is not a religious, ritual, or philosophical issue. It's all and only about what we accept. If we agree to start giving our lives to Him and His (always and only) loving care - then we truly have our own lives. If we do not, then we are just struggling with Him for power and control...and we always lose, whether we are addicts, or not. Nothing is then really ours. Rather, we belong to it.

But is this this Practical? Yes.

Practically speaking, this is very, very simple. See, I like my morning coffee with the right amount of cocoa, milk, and coffee. The proportions have to be right, otherwise I do not really like it. And that's all fine. G-d loves me, and I assume it is usually His Will for me to have a nice cup the way I like it. Seriously.

But what if I make my beloved concoction with great care...and trip, spilling it all on my way to the car?

Oy, I have no time to make another one or will be late to work. It's gone.

What is my immediate, inner reaction? I am not asking how I react with people watching. This is a purely leiv yodeya moras nafsho kind of question.

Now, if I am working step 3, I am growing in the direction of reacting by saying - and feeling - that it was not my cup of coffee to begin with. It was G-d's property that He likes to allow me to take every morning - but not this morning, for some reason. And truly doing that is very, very hard. It is rare and precious. And it is, was, and always will be the very basis of every gentile or Jew working the program in AA, NA, SA, etc.

As a sexholic in recovery, I find brachos such a 3rd step gift! Every time I say a brocha on that cup of coffee, beer, cold milk, or whatever - I admit this very cup in my hand never was and never will be mine - so now I have the capacity to truly have it! Meaning: I am now free from my own bondage to self. If the cup falls I will miss drinking it - but it ends there. The loss will not anger me, for I know and accept that it is not mine and was never mine to have. This is a different way of living, and is not specifically Jewish, at all.

If I do feel angry about it when it falls, then it proves to me that I am not saying a brocha, and the food is not really given to me in the first place! The proof is in how I react in my heart in the moment when I lose things, R"l: when my wife does not want to have sex with me tonight; when the kids keep me up and I can't get the sleep I was sure was mine to have; when the boss at work is mean to me or someone doesn't give me the respect that I felt was due me; when I realize I have less money than other guys do, etc. Feeling sad about it is normal and healthy - but do I feel a twinge (or more than a twinge) of anger, fear, resentment, do I get edgy with people afterward? Does it hurt badly when I lose it? Do I say "%#@$!" under my breath when the light turns red?

If it does, then my 3rd step is lacking.

And that is the way we are! Growing peaople who are still imperfect, fearful, prideful, and selfish. But growing. And It seems that's all we need to do - if we have any hope at all to remain sober.

I use brachos this way, though it is not easy, and it helps me in staying sober one day at a time.

I love brachos!

Dov Said:

I admit this very cup in my hand never was and never will be mine - so now I have the capacity to truly have it! Meaning: I am now free from my own bondage to self. If the cup falls I will miss drinking it - but it ends there. The loss will not anger me, for I know and accept that it is not mine and was never mine to have. This is a different way of living, and is not specifically Jewish, at all.

Shivisi Responds:

Thank you Dov for a truly beautiful insight!
As a supplement to your vort, I would like to quote what my father would often say [and which I continue to pass on to others] when we arrived at a bus stop only to realize that "our bus" had just pulled out, leaving us to wait for the next bus. If we expressed displeasure, my father would say, "if a bus of a different line had just left would you also feel bad?, of course not! Because 'it's not your bus!' so too, you must realize that if Hasgocho caused that bus to leave without us, then "‘it’s simply 'not our bus'!!

Dov Said:

If I do feel angry about it when it falls, then it proves to me that I am not saying a brocha, and the food is not really given to me in the first place!
The proof is in how I react in my heart in the moment when I lose things, R"l:when my wife does not want to have sex with me tonight; when the kids keep me up and I can't get the sleep I was sure was mine to have; when the boss at work is mean to me or someone doesn't give me the respect that I felt was due me; when I realize I have less money than other guys do, etc. Feeling sad about it is normal and healthy - but do I feel a twinge (or more than a twinge) of anger, fear, resentment, do I get edgy with people afterward? Does it hurt badly when I lose it? Do I say "%#@$!" under my breath when the light turns red?

Shivisi Responds:

And in extension to this, I'll relate a story I heard from Rav Shimshon Pincus zatzal which happened to him:
He was scheduled to travel from Ofakim to Tel Aviv (about an hour ride) for an important appointment. When he was ready to leave Ofakim, a family member pointed out to him that it was already quite late and by the time he would reach Tel Aviv he would miss his appointment time, so there was no point in making the trip. (The situation obviously was that he must come on time or not at all).
Upon hearing this R' Shimshon sighed with disappointment, and said "oy, chaval".
Later that day, a student who had known of the Rav's cancelled plans related to him that he heard on the news that there had been a "cheifetz chashud" (bomb scare) at the office building where R' Pincus had intended to go, and they had locked down the building and kept everyone outside for 2 hours. By the time all was cleared, it was closing time and all those who had waited were sent away. "So", said the student,"Hashem has saved the Rav from traveling for nothing by delaying his departure until it was too late to make the trip". R' Shimshon thanked the student profusely for relating the news, and relieving him of his disappointment.
After the student left, the Rav's family noticed that he was upset about something. When asked for an explanation he replied "I feel bad that just because 'Shimshon' didn't have enough emuna that 'kol ma d'ovid rachmono l'tav ovid'(all which Hashem does is for good), until Hashem had to show it to me clearly through the 'cheifetz chashud', it had caused all those other people who were there to suffer."

I never stop being amazed at this story. Now how’s THAT for "lack of" Emuna???

And this comes from R' Shimshon Pincus, who once said to a group of students "I just love to eat meat!" When they expressed surprise at a person of his caliber making such an exclamation, he explained: "whenever I eat meat, I know that for the next 6 hours, Hashem's will controls what I should eat. I can't have a coffee with milk, I can't eat bread with butter etc. etc. I just LOVE the feeling of being controlled by Hashem's will!

Thanks again for the inspiration. (p.s. all of it).

Dov wrote:

thanks for the beautiful emmese shtikel
i only meant to commend the dr. for backing off where he had every right to stick up for himself,
i did not mean to give you tochacha, i am definitely not in a position for that, but i will daven a tfilas hedyot that we should all be zoche to practice opportunities to surrender to Hashem, as you already do for the many silly posts that you do pass on w/o being mehaneh us with your precious comments

Kilocholu wrote:

hama'avir al midosav ma'avirin memenu al kol psha'av

Dov Wrote:

Thanks for that post, kilochalu. I need some of that. Please pray for me to do that more with Hashems help if you don't mind, seriously.

Kilocholu Responded:

Thanks for the beautiful emmese shtikel...
I will daven a tfilas hedyot that we should all be zoche to practice opportunities to surrender to Hashem, as you already do for the many silly posts that you do pass on w/o being mehaneh us with your precious comments.



Shivisi responds:

Dov: Just by all the "surrendering" you do by tolerating all my "shtusim" and my "lomdus with a drei-of-the-finger" (your term) you prove over and over again (both here and privately)how blessed you are with this great midda!
Specifically,I want to thank you for this lesson which you taught me/us about "'surrendering' to Hashem", [even though it took you about a dozen times of repetition, and lots of your valuable time, until I finally understood it], it was a very big help for me and I'm beginning to see how imperative it is to apply to many aspects of life, and especially in the case of addiction.
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!


Now on a more selfish note: I wouldn't have minded at least some acknowledgement*, if not a comment, to the response which I wrote to your previous long post. (I don't think 'all' of it was shtusim).


* ok, I did notice that you clicked the thank you, I guess I should just surrender' and be satisfied ('sameach' b'chelko???? - see? I remember) with that.

I woke up a little early today so I sat and read AA literature for about 20 minutes then opened up my gemoroh for the first time all week. Sigh. Anyway, opening up to sotah 4b I was amazed by what I saw:

kol odom sheyesh bo gasus horuach lebasof nichshal b'eishes ish.

This disease is progressive. If I don't humble myself at least a little bit and ask Hashem for help, in the end I will end up where the gemoroh describes. That is the natural progression.


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Everything is about Yiddishkeit. It's why we were put in this world. There are halachos concerning every little detail in our lives, including going to the bathroom. Why make separations?

While its true that everything is about yiddishkeit, it cannot be forced upon every person in every struggle, and it shouldn't be ...imho.

I also don't agree that the struggle is a "simple" one.

That being said Doc, I think you set the stage correctly, but (again imho), it is a dangerous and risky move to tell her more. Make sure you are both ready for the consequences.

b'hatzlacha

skeptical wrote:



I can only talk about me. what you said would be fine if I was able to live that way. the fact is that I've often found myself becoming averse to certain things if they feel too Jewish. if I take on too much jewish-wise I find that I start feeling like a martyr, which for me seems to always immediately precede a major fall.


a person is a human being first, and on top of that can be a good Jew. the fact is that the AA literature was written by goyim who somehow managed to stay sober and live with G-d in their lives. the fact that I can also learn Torah and do mitzvos is an extra gift that Hashem has given me. but I can't afford to let the cherry on top ruin the cake.


it seemed to me at the time that my wife felt the same way, even if she wouldn't necessarily have phrased it that way.

I think it would be fair to say that "everything is about Hashem", that way it really does put us on the same plane as everything, because everything is created for a purpose, even non-jews, they have a tafkid here as well.

After we start from that point then we can see what advantages we have with having yiddishkeit, but if we start with yiddishkeit then we are missing the core of it all!! and that is chassidus for you!!!!

For me, feeling like a martyr is one of the most damaging feelings I can have. I sometimes choose to not do a mitzva that I could do because I was feeling like a martyr and if I put myself out do do that mitzvah as well I wouldn't be able to handle the feeling and I would inevitably fall.

It could well be that Hashem will punish me greatly for not doing those mitzvos. If that's what He decides then I accept His decision. I can't help thinking that I'm still better off that way than if I do the mitzva at the expense of my sobriety.

If I am indeed punished for it, it would be because I was not on the level of being able to do the mitzva and not think greatly about myself over it.