To quote the frum wife of a (now sober) yeshivah sexaholic I heard speaking at a frum recovery weekend:

"If nothing changes, then nothing changes."

In other words, if we keep living basically the same way, with similar expectations, similar motives, and using similar tools to get there...then we will remain in the same trouble. Throwing MORE motivation at the same methods, MORE effort for the same goals, or MORE whatever...is just a cheap way to keep holding onto the same thing. For it does not work! So I am really BS-ing myself. Just look at all the alcoholics who swore off tearfully to their wives and themselves and their G-d - and then continued to live a life in chains, drunk. For me, TaPhsic, shvuos, and big plans - would all just be ways to assuage my pain by telling myself I am doing something about it!" - but none of those are actions of recovery. They are just ways to maintain my self-respect and 'beat this thing' without getting on my knees and admitting I have lost.

I need to face the fact that in addiction, no matter what lip-service I pay to Torah and no matter how many sincere tears I shed for Teshuvah, there is an ugly reality that trumps it all:

My porn, the chase for it, my orgasms, sexual power, and fantasies are deeply precious to me. Until I took real action to learn how to live without them, I got nowhere. Perhaps this is the same story of the typical frum addict here who keeps 'falling' year after year. (See "The Nuclear Reset Button".)

Recovery is very simple, and very different. If it's not different, then it's probably not recovery, at all.

So my experience agrees with you, here, Doc! And have a nice day, buddy

Dr.Watson wrote:


This all might be true and probably is....perhaps I can say the same regarding myself as well (although when I do think of the future now, it is somewhat more promising)....the difference Doc is how we view the present. Don't look at the past and don't consider the future. Think of the moment. It is not only an expression; it is a way of life. Think of the moment at hand. That is the difference between now and the past.

b'hatzlachah

...I thought what he wrote was awesome, honest, and straightforward, myself...

it definitely was honest and straightforward

I was commenting on that which he wrote that he doesn't see any difference shaping up between his past and his future...everything will be the same.

on that I wrote that he shouldn't focus on the future (or the past).

thanks

He wrote that if he doesn't do something different then his future won't be different.

Doc wrote: You know what, I'm not different. My addiction's not different, my preference of porn isn't different, the way I masturbate isn't different. And if I don't do something different, my future won't be different from my past either.

We will leave it to Doc to explain.

Either way, it should be b'hatzlachah to all.

Two things:

1) I like to think that I'm different somehow. My addiction's not so bad, I have clearer red lines than others, My type of porn isn't so serious, I can stop on my own. Certain takonos and halochos are for people with a problem not for me....

2) OK so I've been falling a lot recently, but that's only because I've got this stress and that annoyance etc. Soon everything will be different, when x happens it will be easier, when y happens it will be easier, z is a complete game-changer. So I don't need to do anything different, circumstances will change and it will get easier all by itself....

I can't delude myself into thinking that my situation is different from other people's so I don't need as much work. It's no different, I need just as much work.

And if I don't do that work now nothing will change. Tomorrow won't be any easier than today.

Number 2 is the big one for me. Yes being tired makes it harder to stay clean, but I've been tired for 10 years now, I'll probably always be tired. Yes, lack of learning and davening makes it harder, but I've been struggling with that for 2 years so it's likely that I'll never learn as much as I feel I should. Yes, being angry, resentful and stressed makes it harder, but those things aren't going to magically fly away from me. Yes, my wife can irritate me or stress me out and that makes it harder, but that's not likely to change either.

Of course, I can try to work on other aspects of myself, and even try to change my circumstances a little, but the truth is that things are unlikely to change much. And even if they do change, that doesn't help me today. Nor is it certain that it will makes things easier. And I might find new things to stress over.

So it is what it is, and I've got to deal with what the situation is right now. Otherwise, the next 5 years of this addiction will basically be a repeat of the last 5 years. There's no point being delusional about it, I know exactly what will happen, it's already happened and it will happen again. Unless I do something different.

Dr.Watson wrote:

that's the optimistic scenario

Hearing you loud and clear, Doc.

When I start to literally accept G-d's Will as guiding my life today, things start to change. Giving myself to Him even partially and even very poorly, works just fine...as long as I really mean it. I will never really give myself to Him, and believe that nobody does - and He knows it.

And none of this is about religion.

If it is for me, then I am probably just being coerced by my guilt, philosophical allegiances, etc. This experience I think you are looking for is so different. For a change, it is not an 'obligation' in any sense except to myself. It's free, enlightened self-interest. The closest to Love and altruism I will probably ever get.

For an addict, Step 3 as a product of yiddishkeit or Torah, is sterile. For it isn't my will, but G-d's, the Rabbi's or the Torah's, or my fathers', or whoever. It may be good, but it usually does not work at all. For it to finally be real and actually change the way I feel and exist, it's gotta be self-will. My choice.

And though sanity rarely visits us for long without sobriety, this can work in our lives even if you or I are still masturbating. It's what Chaza"l mean when they say "afilu rosho uboteyach baShem - then Chessed yisovevenhu." Practically though, for addicts the sanity really is not there to make a real decision to do anything real like this. Hence the cycles of falling, crying, falling, etc, for decades.

Sanity usually only comes long after sobriety starts.

But faith that is based on surrender to and acceptance of G-d's Purely Benevolent Power is a thing anyone can choose and learn...Jew, gentile, whatever. But it requires patience and an acceptance of imperfection in it, right from the outset. In other words:
humility.

If this is not gibberish to you, you may get enjoy reading the 12 and 12 chapter 3 (on the 3rd step) and chapping it better. If it is gibberish to you, you may read it anyhow.

Second meeting. Got a sponsor.

He told me to read the doctors opinion in the big book every day for 2 weeks. I've read it before but I never fully took it in. One bit that really got me was "the torture of cravings". I haven't looked at porn in over 2 weeks and I've found myself looking at women in the street for a fix. I went shopping for shabbos yesterday and was trying to be shomer einayim and I noticed, maybe for the first time, just how many attractive women there are in between my house and the shop. I couldn't look anywhere, and just noticing them out of the corner of my eye gave me urges. Torture is a fair way of describing it, it caused me real pain to feel that urge but not look.

I also read in 'mask in the mirror' that as an addict I sexualise stress, tiredness, resentment, etc. It's very true. I've fallen a few times this week before I even got out of bed. This morning I woke up very tired and my brain starting thinking about sex. Why? cos I'm tired. So...? .....What do you mean so? You're tired so the way to deal with it is to think about sex and fall again. That way you can numb yourself from the tiredness until you feel ready to get up. What could be better?

B"H I caught it but it was still a struggle. Still, I'm happy that my day started properly.

Have a good shabbos my friends.

Thanks for sharing Doc!!

The looking on the street is one of the hardest things for me still. They're everywhere, and it's really warm here in EY. I can feel the affet taking that extra look has on me, it's really not safe!! I need to take it one trip at a time not looking. I remember seeing an idea somewhere to stop for a moment by the mezuzah and asking Hashem to help us keep our eyes away from bad sights, and even if we see them we should be able to turn away right away (like Dovid Hamelech asks in Tehillim, seee Tor siman 1)

Bravo on the struggle in the morning, it gets easier, with time.

For now, it's just one foot in frontof the other, and then the next and then the next. Enjoy this step!!

KUTGW!! KOMT!!!

Slow ride....take it eaaaaasyyy...

I'm feeling quite stressed right now. I had urges earlier today so I called a member of my group. We spoke, and a few minutes ago he called me back again. My wife went to sleep a while ago so I closed the door and spoke quite freely about what was on my mind. After the conversation it occurred to me that she might not be asleep yet and could hear every word. So I tiptoed in and she's not obviously asleep. I whispered to her but she didn't respond.

I have no way of knowing if she is actually asleep or pretending to be asleep because she heard my conversation. I'm not ready to tell her yet as I haven't been sober long enough, and she's going through stress of her own right now and this would be too much for her. So I'm stressed which is not good.

Thing is, I think she would/will be upset if/when I told/tell her about all this, but I don't see why she should be. There are only 2 alternatives that I can see, neither are better. Either I look at porn but don't work on it, or I never look at porn cos I don't have the urge to do that. The first is clearly bad, the second would mean that I have no avodah to do, as well as being pretty unrealistic. I mean, addict or no addict, all men enjoy seeing such things and the availability of it nowadays is ridiculous. Does she really think I've never seen any porn?! I highly doubt it, she's probably just never thought about it.

In any case it's a conversation I'd like to have with her, but at a time of my choosing, not because of circumstances. It would be very ironic though to manage for 15 years to sneak around and watch porn without my family ever finding out, and then joining SA only to be caught trying to fix it less than 2 weeks later.

Good heavens! Why tell her anything about it at all? I don't get it? Eevery case is different. Don't listen to "Rules of Thumb" about a subject like whether to tell your wife or not and when to tell her, etc. Please.

And your 'two alternatives' are pretending you can crawl into her head and figure out what she is thinking and how she will approach it...boy. Few men have ever figured out women...Odom harishon himself seems to have screwed up in that department worst of all, not exactly setting us men on the right track, no?

U r driving yourself crazy, sweet brother Doc. Recovery and sobriety are the two big concerns right now. Not your marriage or relationship with your wife. That will happen in step 9, or whenever. But when it becomes apparent that your wife should be told, G-d will let you know. Till then, I suggest this is part of your disease, that's all. Relax. Once again, the immortal (not really) words of Foghat, "Slow ride....take it eeeeasssyyyy..."


Smile....or


Or as the AA's say it: Easy Does It.