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From a deep pit to a tall roof
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A platform of recovery for Jews who find themselves struggling with addictions to pornography, masturbation or other sexual problems. Post anonymously about your struggles without fear of anyone finding out who you are. Ask questions, post answers and be inspired! Get tips and guidance from the experts who moderate this forum, as well as from fellow strugglers.

TOPIC: From a deep pit to a tall roof 106869 Views

Re: From a deep pit to a tall roof 31 Dec 2013 18:42 #225865

  • Pidaini
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I just heard B'shem R' Rephael Schorr that every Mmidah we can work on and reach a certain level of that midah, but Emunah needs to be constantly worked, for we are human and in a gashmiyus world. Gashmiyus by definition seems to contradict the fact that Hashem is everything.

From my experience, I cannot turn my thinkng around by myself. My thinking is way too biased to let me give myself up to Hashem's control. I, BH, have friends whom I talk to regularly. I can tell them that I want to be in control, that I feel like I should be in control. After verbalizing that, having validated my body's feelings, I can then go on to surrender my life to Hashem, and to let go of my "right" to be in control.

I have tried it without friends, I have tried it with only friends, neither have worked. It is a combination of friends and Hashem, or Hashem and friends, that has been the successful recipe.

So from experience, all I can say is....Get out of your own head, of trying to do it in isolation!!! Get in touch with others, be honest with them and yourself!!

You're worth it!!!!
Yankel | My Ladder | Talking to Hashem
I'm just a dude, another guy on this bus.
Have a great day, unless, of course, you made other plans. ~ obbormottel
"Nothing changes as long as everything stays the same" ~ Dov

Re: From a deep pit to a tall roof 31 Dec 2013 22:51 #225876

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Hey Doc - I suggest far better than reading sforim on bitachon, that you read through Alcoholics Anonymous chapter 5 "How It Works", where Bill wrotes about step 3, accepting G-d's Will and care in our lives (about the third page of it, b'erech). Also try chapter 3 in the AA book, "Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions", chapter 3 (which is on Step 3). A lot of practical, simple stuff there.

If you have a problem reading a thing written 'to goyim by goyim', let me know and we can talk or post over the issue which is a significant one for many folks. It's OK.

But if you are OK accepting the honest sharing of other addicts instead of just reading great people tell you 'how you should be'...then you may indeed benefit a lot more from the AA stuff, as many here and elsewhere do, be"H.
Admin put these lines here cuz he likes 'em:
"The heart needs to be broken when will-power is not enough"
"Get off the 18-Wheeler and onto a tricycle!"
"The heck with me, what can I do for you?"
"I do not particularly care exactly which "lav" suicide is. I'm not interested in it for other reasons!"

Re: From a deep pit to a tall roof 31 Dec 2013 23:41 #225883

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Re: From a deep pit to a tall roof 01 Jan 2014 22:16 #225956

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I printed chapter 5 and skimmed it, I will read it more carefully tonight. Probably a few times as it looks very helpful.


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Re: From a deep pit to a tall roof 02 Jan 2014 00:49 #225963

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Have one or both of you considered therapy? I can't remember if you ever posted about it.

Re: From a deep pit to a tall roof 02 Jan 2014 02:04 #225969

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Dr.Watson wrote:
I printed chapter 5 and skimmed it, I will read it more carefully tonight. Probably a few times as it looks very helpful.


It would be far more helpful for you to go to the AA central office in your city (look it up, its in any phone book or (c"v) on line), drive there, and walk in. Ask the lady behind the counter where the Bog Books are, wish her a Happy Kwanzaa, and buy a copy for 5-10 bucks.

Read the same pages then, and I know they will do you far more good than just downloading them.

I am dead serious. Please believe me. It is worth the trip. This stuff is far more real than this high-tech generation is making it...too easy to download, copy, whatever.

And while I am at it, I will pass along that your written step-work will benefit you 100% more if it is written in your own hand rather than typed. Same thing.

Trust me and try it, or don't. I don't mind. But it's true.

Don't tell anyone, keep it our little secret, ok?

Admin put these lines here cuz he likes 'em:
"The heart needs to be broken when will-power is not enough"
"Get off the 18-Wheeler and onto a tricycle!"
"The heck with me, what can I do for you?"
"I do not particularly care exactly which "lav" suicide is. I'm not interested in it for other reasons!"

Re: From a deep pit to a tall roof 07 Jan 2014 20:20 #226232

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"More than most people, the alcoholic leads a double life. He is very much the actor. ....He trembles to think someone might have observed him."

I was thinking about the double life and pretending to be respectable and I think I have the problem even worse than that. I am so scared of what people will think of me that I don't open up at all. I'm not talking about pretending to be perfect, I mean I can barely talk to people I don't know cos I'm so scared of making a mistake.

They talk about the cycle of acting out, being scared they were seen, which leads to acting out. For me, it's even worse. I'm so scared of even being normal in social settings that there's no way for me for feel comfortable outside my own house, away from my computer and all the girls. So of course I seek out the company of those girls I can enjoy but not need to feel uncomfortable with. How else can I have any social interaction that I enjoy?

Does social anxiety cause porn addiction, or the other way round, or do they both grow from the same root?

Will recovery from addiction help with social anxiety, or does social anxiety need to be worked out before I can recover from addiction?

Or maybe I'm just naturally shy. Yeah, and maybe I'm just naturally a porn addict too.

Re: From a deep pit to a tall roof 07 Jan 2014 22:50 #226242

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In the last two weeks things have gone from not-too-bad to terrible. I suppose that means that I wasn't really getting better but my progress was superficial. Even so, I feel the need to do something.

Here is a link to a spreadsheet of how often I fall fell. I'm not certain this is a good idea, but I feel like the accountability will help somewhat. Please don't judge me on the number of fall this last week.


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Last Edit: 07 Jan 2014 23:01 by Watson.

Re: From a deep pit to a tall roof 08 Jan 2014 00:11 #226247

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Dr.Watson wrote:
"More than most people, the alcoholic leads a double life. He is very much the actor. ....He trembles to think someone might have observed him."

I was thinking about the double life and pretending to be respectable and I think I have the problem even worse than that. I am so scared of what people will think of me that I don't open up at all. I'm not talking about pretending to be perfect, I mean I can barely talk to people I don't know cos I'm so scared of making a mistake.

They talk about the cycle of acting out, being scared they were seen, which leads to acting out. For me, it's even worse. I'm so scared of even being normal in social settings that there's no way for me for feel comfortable outside my own house, away from my computer and all the girls. So of course I seek out the company of those girls I can enjoy but not need to feel uncomfortable with. How else can I have any social interaction that I enjoy?

Does social anxiety cause porn addiction, or the other way round, or do they both grow from the same root?

Will recovery from addiction help with social anxiety, or does social anxiety need to be worked out before I can recover from addiction?

Or maybe I'm just naturally shy. Yeah, and maybe I'm just naturally a porn addict too.


I don't know about you, all I can say is that I personally was a social mess before dealing with this. Part of my family business is talking with people, with new people, so I couldn't always get out of it. But when I didn't need to I would run away from new people as fast as my mind could carry me!!

I've met another few of us who are the same way. I am scared of rejection, I need other peoples approval and I'm scared that if i don't get it, I will be nothing!! That stemmed from the fact that I was incapable of controlling myself, and couldn't really be happy with myself, so all I was left with was to look for approval from others.

When I didn't get that approval, or I would shy away from calling a company that billed me wrongly, because i was afraid of that rejection, I felt doubly bad about myself, which caused me to turn to porn.....etc. So by me it may have started with the porn, but by now the main feeding of the porn is the other issues, not the porn itself.

When I came here, and started accepting myself, so much of the above has changed. I can shmooze normally without sweating perfusely. I can take care of bills, I can face other people. I don't need them as much anymore.

So get up, take a good look at yourself, and start from there!! You deserve it, you deserve to appreciate yourself!! You CAN appreciate yourself exactly the way you are, the same way Hashem appreciates you exactly the way you are!!
Yankel | My Ladder | Talking to Hashem
I'm just a dude, another guy on this bus.
Have a great day, unless, of course, you made other plans. ~ obbormottel
"Nothing changes as long as everything stays the same" ~ Dov

Re: From a deep pit to a tall roof 08 Jan 2014 01:11 #226255

  • Pure Daniel
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Sorry Doctor but you seem to be a little too obsessed with the whole star chart thing.

The program is about 'LETTING GO'.

Stay Pure,

Daniel UK
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Re: From a deep pit to a tall roof 08 Jan 2014 01:15 #226256

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Yes, I am also naturally shy. Mainly through one of the phone groups, I learned to accept myself, and not worry as much about rejection and being perfect. I can take on a situation that used to scare me, and not stress about it so much.

Being able to (more easily) accept reality, has reduced my need to escape into fantasy. It is quite liberating.

Re: From a deep pit to a tall roof 08 Jan 2014 02:52 #226275

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gibbor120 wrote:

Being able to (more easily) accept reality, has reduced my need to escape into fantasy. It is quite liberating.


So what's my reality? That I don't learn, don't daven, don't have yiraas shomayim, don't have social confidence? I'm not even talking about being mr. smooth, I mean I look like a rabbit in a car's headlights just walking down the street, and I hate that about myself. If I accept these things will I be less likely to act out?

Re: From a deep pit to a tall roof 08 Jan 2014 02:56 #226276

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Pure Daniel wrote:


The program is about 'LETTING GO'.



I've heard this idea before but I don't understand it. Let go of what? Let go of self-control? Please help me to understand.

Re: From a deep pit to a tall roof 08 Jan 2014 03:12 #226282

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Dr.Watson wrote:
gibbor120 wrote:

Being able to (more easily) accept reality, has reduced my need to escape into fantasy. It is quite liberating.


So what's my reality? That I don't learn, don't daven, don't have yiraas shomayim, don't have social confidence? I'm not even talking about being mr. smooth, I mean I look like a rabbit in a car's headlights just walking down the street, and I hate that about myself. If I accept these things will I be less likely to act out?
Have you ever gone for therapy? Have you ever considered it? It sounds like you need more help than an anonymous forum can give you.

Re: From a deep pit to a tall roof 08 Jan 2014 13:27 #226303

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Or you could start with SA meetings. They are much cheaper and really not as scary as you might imagine.

And BTW I too, identify with many of the issues you wrote about. Many of them I was not aware of, or was in denial about before I came to SA. And yes, acceptance is the key to recovery. Maybe not the recovery I imagined ......... but today I accept that too; one day at a time.
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