Just curious: Why all this talk about 12 steps for a guy who may not be an addict at all?

Someone asked a question and along with it, he also asked regarding one of the 12 steps.

tryingtobeme


skeptical


He further asked:
tryingtobeme


Being that I do not subscribe to the 12-Step program, I was going to allow someone else to answer, but after 2 days of no response, I felt that his question needed an answer, so again, I responded with what I felt the appropriate response was. If anyone feels otherwise, they could clarify.

He says that it helped him, so what was the harm?

skeptical, I dont understand your last response. could you rephrase or elaborate?
Dov, I dont know if I am an addict, but I do know I have trouble saying "no". I realized today though, after acting out last night, that I have four levels of reasons not to act out (I generally work on the first 3)-
1. I'll feel spiritually numb, dumb and dead if I act out. That makes it hard to feel truly "good" and "Kadosh". Intrinsically good, but selfish.
2. 3. How could I start dating and have a real relationship with a person if I am so unreliable and such an animal?
3. if I act out, I could fall into a spiral that could/would literally kill me
4. Hashem doesnt want me to do it.

I get that I need to start small, but when I have such a desire for intamcy, however false, and that is inherently a spiritual desire, albeit horrifically misguided, the first three dont work. I dont usually go to the 4th, and if I do I may block out because of a desire to do MY will over HIS. this was all contemplated on the way to shul this morning, as I thought about how much of a hypocrite I am and how I wish I hadnt done that last night, but I want to do it more. i have to work on this observation and stop acting out.

Those are very good reasons, but do they help you stop? ifthey haven't until now what makes you think they will in the future?
i think the main area that we have to fight against is not to be triggered in the first place, if you GYE, than the fight is much easier.
also you may want to look here guardyoureyes.com/forum/19-Introduce-Yourself/203733-introduction?limit=15&start=15#203913
it is an awesome peice from dov.
wish you massive hatzlacha and remember, one day at a time!!
KOT KOMT!!!

thanks. man, I feel when it rains, it pours. I found myself trying to find stuff again. I stopped and deleted the app that causes problems and went and learned for a bit. I couldnt believe that this is how my bein hazmanim would be ending. i also went to find shiurim for traveling back to yeshiva. i found some on the 12 steps. i got the first 2. incidently, I had a short discussion with Hashem first. I realized that I cant do this myself. my attempts to give up have failed over and over. and I also realized that with Hashem's help, whatever that means, I can fix this. I looked at the title of the shiurim...after. the problem is letting myself let go of the anxiety of "will He help, can He help, etc." I mean, the problem is more than that, but that's the loudest YH right now. so I essentially acknowledged the first 2 steps. should they be done in a manner that intellectually sincerely admits them, or emotionally? I just dont think I am capable of emotionally admitting all that much.

Pidaini wrote:


that was helpful, in the sense that I realize better what I just did. I still did it. hopefully I can make this fall be the one to change things.

tryingtobeme wrote:


You are thinking too much. There is a thread on this site called 90,000 reasons not to act out. After reading it, we should all be healed - right? It doesn't quite work that way as many of us have experienced. All the reasons in the world will not help. Reasoning with taiva doesn't help at all.

The source is usually some stress or lonliness. That is where it starts. Once a lust attack is on, it's very tough to fight. The battle lines need to be redrawn. We need to adress the root of the problem.

ein chochi nomi. but when I draw the battle lines, however tight, however loose, they get crossed because ultimately there is nothing stopping me. there is always a way around the system of prevention. there is always the ability to escape the commitment. I feel stuck and I want to get to the bottom of it, as it is the same thing making me unable to really engage with life and be happy. but it keeps happening. I just want it to stop. I want some stability...

What I meant was to address the problems that are causing stress and/or lonliness. Once those are addressed, there will be fewer battles and the battles will be less intense.

This obviously has to be coupled with shmiras aynayim, filters etc. But if you "need" to act out, you will, regardless of filters etc.

Addressing the emotional issues will alleviate the "need" to act out.

Dear TTBM,

You make good points, for 'knasos' and admitting it here for the shame of it all, are both silly tools. They rely on the person himself, so the fox is guarding the hen-house. It's ridiculous...though for some, it apparently works! (though not for me, and apparently not for you, either). So:

How often do you use porn, and how often do you masturbate? Lets get the facts clear here. If you do not want to get really clear here, you can PM me or anyone else and get this clear. Thats a start.

...Those were not rhetorical questions. It really won;t hurt to open up.

Hatzlocha, chaver.

I figured they were real questions, but I've been busy. Basically there are two time systems. I can generally manage to stay clean for between 30-60 days without a problem. Those two points generally get a bit harder. Once it gets harder it generally gets even harder with a noticed pritzus girl, keri blili, or me feeling lonely/depressed/stressed/whatever else and wanting a peek of something small. from that point it generally takes between an hour to 3 days to crash on my face and then I'm begging for sanity and clarity, as well as to be clean, again. if something is soon to look forward to that sometimes helps, sometimes makes it worse. I am strongly considering reinstating webchaver. I just need to do it...I'm really sick of this sickness. and I get that I am powerless that once I start, I am done. thank G-d, Hashem has been kind and allowed me to only fall as far as I have.

hey TTBM,

Your post sounds very familiar. BTDT (Been There Done That). Can we add that to the official guide of GYE acronyms... I need it A LOT .

I am aware...

tryingtobeme wrote:


Wow. Then you recognize that sanity and clarity do not leave you as a result of your acting out your lust, but rather that they must have insidiously and subtly actually left you beforehand at some point, and resulted in your trance/lusting and acting out. Right?

That alone is a huge, huge brocha to accept.

Is that what you meant, or if not, does it seem a thing you could come to believe (or at least trust) is the truth?