This is by far a crazy good boost for me to read. I am in the same ride just I happen to do a lot of stuff In the past.. but I am probably older then you so that answers a lot, I was so sick before I got help, (and yes on the outside I was perfect, at least I think so)  but I struggle with the same thing with out going in to details I am mostly for women but I have the other side in me, and lately i struggle more, meaning it can literally be triggers for me left and right not only women and that is so crazy painful, and I am a father of kids and married, etc etc thst i cant go in to details and i wish i can get rid of it and i am a love addict as well, for the people who know what that means, how crazy is that? Bottom line it's nature,  and of curse, now a dis-ease, a big time Dis-ease, but I am clean for over four months now, completely, from anything, not even by my self.

I am working the 12 steps and have a sponsor and dos not miss a meeting at least ones a week, for no money. Today I did not speak to him so I came on the site here and I must say this post gave me chizuk to go to sleep like a "mentsh" and oh boy that story with cregslist getting an email from a guy you also mat here, If I understood right, gave me chills. Good night.

U could do it wrote on 05 Mar 2012 05:17:


Yes.




If I can, after the things I did, then I am sure that you can, too.




This is up to Hashem, who can (of course) do this for you, generally with a lot of work from you, yourself.  Not only have I (Baruch Hashem) struggled with this and am no longer attracted to men, but I personally know of others who have also recovered from SSA.  I cannot tell you how to (everyone's story is different and personal to them), but it is certainly possible, for many people.




This is the same question asked by alcohol addicts, drug addicts, people who visit zonas, people who cheat in business, people who commit crimes, people who skip davening in the morning to read a newspaper, or who skip learning seder to watch a movie.  Living a double life is hard, especially when you feel isolation and loneliness.  Reaching out to others for help is a great way to start, not least because it helps you out of isolation.

I hear your pain.  Loudly.

Is this the first time you have admitted this, or are there people in your life in whom you are able to confide?  Are you currently taking any steps, or are you looking for guidance?

Welcome to GYE, friend and brother.

esh_tamid wrote on 04 Mar 2012 22:55:


Hi Joey,

Well done.  This is a very tough thing to do.

Over Shabbos, we read the Haftorah of Shaul and his little incident with Agag et al.  Shaul was a king with a personal email connection to Hashem (Shmuel-Hashem-L'melech Email Protocol, or SHLEP).  Shaul knew the drill - kill Amalek, don't leave anyone standing, and make sure the animals get destroyed, as well.

So, Shaul went to war, won, and didn't leave anyone standing, except for Agag and some wonderful cattle, which he (and his men) claimed they'd hold onto for korbanos for Hashem.  Of course Hashem was displeased with this, and it cost Shaul his kingship and all that.  WORSE, however, Amalek continued, and we ended up with Haman.  Now that's great for us - we get a holdiay and a chance to dress up and fress up, etc., but that wasn't so peachy for the people back then, who were subjected to Haman's power.

Amalek assailed us on the way out of Egypt, when we were weak.  We know that the Amalek that we need to eradicate in our present day is the Amalek within, the cold and tempering voice of "reason" that tells us not to get over-zealous about Torah and Mitzvos.  The voice that attacks us in weakness.  The voice that tells us to stay off hook-up websites, but keep a password somewhere "just in case".  The voice that tells us to delete our phone contacts, but "keep the numbers, just in case, or at least don't change the phone number".  The voice that tells us to "keep our email address", because we might miss an email from an old Yeshiva buddy or a Rov, despite the "risk" that an old flame might email.  Or the voice that says "don't kill the king or the best of the animals - let us keep them for the glory of Hashem".

If there is one lesson this week, it is that the Amalek within us cannot be reasoned with, and that if we give any quarter, if we take pity on that "poor soul who needs us", or "cannot let go of those really special numbers or addresses", then we are deluding ourselves, and doing the same thing as Shaul.

esh_tamid wrote on 04 Mar 2012 02:30:


Joey - you've been through this roundabout many times before.  If you have time to correspond on hook-up sites, but do not have time to talk to the Rav, then there is something seriously screwed up in your priorities (and I should know - my priorities are always screwed up, and there is ALWAYS time/money/capability/resources to do certain things - this is how these things steal your Koach).  In fact, the word "delusion" springs to mind, but I would not go so far presume that, since I don't know what your situation is.

What I do know is that you have struggled for a long time now, and keep going back and forth, you have your "I will never do it again, I have found the answer" days, and your "Help me, I'm lost" days.  Whereas when you were involved with a real person, you (briefly) seemed to be making some progress, you are now no longer able to be involved with a real person, unless it is someone who is also struggling, and potentially very dangerous indeed for you.

I worry about you, and fear for you.  The SSA and lust do not go away by themselves, or with desperate abstinence, they go away with work and help.  When not completely eradicated, Amalek strikes at our weakest moments, which will happen again.  Show me Agag's head, and the slaughtered cattle.

U could do it wrote on 05 Mar 2012 05:17:


"U" are very welcome here! I am battling the same dilemma. I've been at it for almost a year now, in some ways it's been getting a little easier, i don't feel as isolated and "different" as I used to. But the triggers for my tayvos are as strong as ever, and they are strongest in the very places that most people can get away from theirs. it can be really hard at times.

But one thing you should know. If your family could know who their father "really is" they would be so proud. A man with such a special and painful nisayon, doing his best to fulfill Hashem's will. That's who you really are. The other thing may be a deeply ingrained part of you, but it is NOT your identity. This is something that i came to realize early on, and has been one of the biggest yesodos in helping me fight this.

Keep on posting, and Keep on Trucking! U CAN do it!!!

Gevura!

P.S. if you are interested, my whole story is here: http://www.guardyoureyes.org/forum/index.php?topic=4125.0

u r not alone!
ther r free programs uot ther if you have time join the GYE conference calls if you cant do 4 times a week ther r free programs thet have 1 time a week and thay really work (telling from expirience
good luck

many success stories on this, site people have been cured and then they retire in the bahamas, on a beach with a mechitzah and with tons of sefarim.

It appears that Hashem as appointed me a new task.  I used to do a lot of kiruv rechokim (which I still do, when the occassion calls for it), but now that I have broken free of my own SSA struggles He sent me back here to help other people still struggling with SSA.  I'll be straightforward with you:  If you ask for help, I will do my best and hardest to help you.  In most situations with me it's usually "beem there, done that, got the t-shirt" type business. Here I will, as i do in my Kiruv, will maintain a warm and friendly nature but there will be difficult or upsetting things I may ask you to talk about.  I've learned that talking about problems is the best way to help yourself.  You don't need a friend or someone whose shoulder you can cry on.  This is YOUR test, and the yetzer WILL use all the tricks he can possibly pull.  And I'm here to help you as best I can and in what I think and hope is the correct way to handle an SSA situation.  Please, I'm looking forward to my new attempts at this sort of Shlit'aa.  PM me and I will do my best to always be there once we've become comfortable with each other.  Hoping to make your life just THAT much easier,
Coby

lol Coby.  The vunder rebbe and miracle healer!  Sign me up for the 3 for 1 on special amulets. 
be available is awesome.  good on you.  and since you know the programme, you recall it's multifaceted.

I've been hanging around gye for a few months now and this is the first time I'm posting. I was planning on introducing myself first, but then I saw this discussion and really would like to add my perspective.  I am also a ssa sufferer. I've been working with Jonah and have therapy with one of their counselors for almost a year now and it has helped me tremendously.  I've struggled with gay p*** and mas*** for almost 20 years and B"H I'm now 115 days clean without mas****. I've tried many times to stop in the past and have never made past a month. After counseling I was able to do it and recently I really felt a reduction in my ssa. I highly recommend reading articles on jonahweb.org and narth.com/ for understanding the origins of ssa. You will learn that ssa comes because you have unmet psychological needs, when you start to meet those needs the ssa becomes reduced. Without meeting those needs the attraction will remain. Even if you work on stopping ssa related behavior, your mind still craves those needs.
I'm not the best person at explaining these concepts, but please look at those websites. Please feel free to ask me any question.

Eish Emes

Welcome E²

115 days is a huge feat!  Thanks for sharing.  You may want to read this thread for an important discussion of how addiction can complicate SSA.

www.guardyoureyes.org/forum/index.php?topic=4612.0

edgeman- perhaps I didn't phrase myself properly.  I'm not a self-appointed rav or miracle worker (that I know of).  I see how it came out that way.  I guess I was just too excited over how I could help people with the issues I had.  I know you were probably being in good spirits and i'm not umm what's the word?  sort of, "cracking down" on you because of that.  In fact, I thank you for pointing it out!  I'm just basing my possible ability to help on my many kiruv successes in the past.  I just hope I can be as successful or more so here.  Btw, did you respond because you are having some of those all too unspoken issues?  Please pm me if in fact you were and I'll be happy to work together with you (it's always an ongoing process with everything, right?)  I'm not saying I'm totally over it, but I am over it just enough to recognize when I'm slipping and try and catch ppl when they fall or grab their arm as the mudslide takes him away, if you catch my drift.  Oh, and this is for in general to anybody--words that might be triggering might actually help you if you face them.  it's anonymous here and we're all here for the same basic purpose and we know it.  so face it, spelling out "porn" or "masturbate" might actually feel better just spelling them out.  If that makes you feel better. imagine how great you would feel when you can say the words aloud and not be embarrassed, cause they're not really dirty words, just a sort of taboo among the religious community.  Again, we all know why we're here and what we do (but not who we are most of the time).  But that's just my opinion and feel free to ignore it.  It just works for me, that's why I'm suggesting it.
Coby

http://jonahweb.org/sections.php?secId=35


Thank you for your link to the JONAH site.  I was totally shocked by the similarity in the essay linked above and my internal struggle.  It gives me some hope that there is a way out - thats more than just not acting out. 

Hey Coby, thanks for the offer.  I think the community here has some lofty minhagim, among which is not to spell out to p** and m** in full, from what I have seen.  As you are relatively new here, maybe it would be appropriate to follow the community standards?  Just a thought, not sure sure where you are holding in the 12 step programme, if you are holding there at all.  Kind of like, hey why don't' we say the names of certain melachim?  superstitious?  who knows.  it's a lofty minhag.

Anyhow the fact that I had to reply to your comment shows I'm not working my programme properly, because I suppose the best response would  have been to put my trust in H".

We had this discussion a few months ago...

http://www.guardyoureyes.org/forum/index.php?topic=4399.0

Edge--def not new, just took a long break. Anyway, I currently don't feel the need to be in the program myself. As for why, I just don't feel a toevah for men or women anymore  I just came back to see if I could be of help to anyone. My background happened to be ssa issues and I have broken through and am offering help to those who need it. I'm not offering magic or miricles and if you are bothered by my attempted offer you can ignore me and do what is best for you. I'm not angry or upset over this. I won't be offended. Just please in the future if you are going to remark on my comments, try not to comment in a provocative way.
Thanks