I just found a great quote!
Someone said that when a man is smitten with a beautiful woman, he should remember that somebody somewhere is tired of her.

Thanks Reb Yid for another well thought out and insightful post.

Hi Group -

But let me ask you this. As an entrepreneur who is looking to hire people (secretaries, operations etc..) should I completely hiring women? I mean, men I do not lust after ever! Women there is a chance she will dress wrong and my eyes will slip. So should I hire male secretaries?

ninety

To continue with q's for the group:
in a retail setting, I am on a first-name basis with many of my female customers. It makes them feel noticed and welcome. SHould I change that to calling them Mrs. Ploinis?
It will make it less personable and may have an undesired effect on the bottom line.
Not that my m88888888g my brains out didn't have that effect....

ninetydays wrote on 21 Sep 2011 14:28:


If you are an addict and this would be a possible trigger then of course only hire men. How could you put yourself in such a danger? You are powerless?

obormottel wrote on 21 Sep 2011 16:29:


So I guess I would say that you said it best yourself. Your future and recovery are more important than your potential bottom line.

But in reality, I have found that while we think people will look down at us or not be as comfortable with us if we depersonalize a little, in fact the reality is many times the opposite. Most people will respect you and feel more comfortable with you if they know you are sincere, a man of of conviction, and a non thret to them in their personal lives.

And besides, if Parnasa comes from upstairs, do you think He would make you lose if you tried to help yourself stay away from this garbage?

I think not!!  :D

Hatzlocha,
Reb Yid

Reb Yid wrote on 21 Sep 2011 18:26:

Reb Yid! I can farbreng for hours on the topic of how parnosso comes from above, and when it comes to my own sitch, I am in total denial....Thank you so much for reiterating this very important musog!

In my experience, when I was unattracted to female co-worker there were no issues, but if there is an attraction that it was very challenging. My advice, for ones you find attractive, stay far away as much as possible.

Honestly, for most people calling female co-workers “Miss/Mrs. Last Name” is impractical. The norm is to call the co-workers by their first names.

I once worked at a frum place where that was official policy, everyone of the opposite gender was addressed as Mr/Mrs./Miss _______. They also had a pretty strict dress code. It was all spelled out in the employee manual. I thought it was a wonderful thing.

struggler wrote on 22 Sep 2011 00:53:


With all due respect to you my fellow "struggler", the things that we do which brought us all to this site in the first place is not exactly "the norm" either!!!

And besides, isn't the norm to shake hands with female clients?
Isn't it the norm to go out to dinner with prospective clients?
Isn't it the norm to flirt in a friendly way with female co-workers?

But all of those things have the same common denominator - They may be the norm, but they are not what Hashem wants you to do. So we go against the norm. which is what Judaism is all about. (Avram was Be'ever echad vechol ha'olam be'ever sheni....)

And all of that applies to every single "normal" kosher Yid. How much more out of the norm should a struggling addicted lust infested Yid try to keep himself?

I'm sorry. I got myself onto this site by following the norm.
And I aint getting off it until I stop following and start leading.

Hatzlocha,
Reb Yid

Reb Yid, very well put.

Obviously (or not so obviously) everyone's situation is unique.
We need to question whether the norm is for us.
Also, "the norm" in hutzenplutz is not the same as "the norm" in zoikstown which is not the same as "the norm" in bardstown which is not the same as "the norm" in ...

Whatever "the local norm" is, each individual has to figure out for themselves whether to row against the tides.

We draw the line somewhere....
How many people say "I'm not going to do any sort of work that involves computers." ?
"I'm just going to find a job that's kav venaki and if all I make is $15,000 a year....  so my family will live without the amenities of the 21st century....  Who needs more than a one room apartment for a ten person family?  Who needs health insurance?  Who needs more than bread, water, and potatos?  Who needs a car? 

Certainly that is a good example of "not following the norm."

Where do we draw the line?


This post is not intended to take sides at all.
I am just raising the question.
Why takkeh don't we go with the "shtetl life" option mentioned above, if it will help us stay sober?

In response to Shteeble: Shtetl life would seemingly be the quintessential option for us addicts, and it truth it would solve a lot more problems then just our addiction. However, if you think about more deeply would this truly help? In the shtetl life, although there would be no technology, there would still be no hiding from desires. I'm sure you can imagine many situations that could be a lot worse in shtetl life then in current society.

What I'm saying is that there is definitely aspects of shtetl life that should be implemented in to our daily lives to help us with our addictions. However, just supplanting ourselves completely into another environment wouldn't neccessarily be on the overall better for us. It's the classic 'the grass is greener on the other side' approach.

People tend to have this utopian view of 'the shtetl life' or 'the hym'. As if there was no crime and no desires is such life. It's a bunch of nostalgic lies. Taavah has been around for thousands of years.

Thanks everyone for your input. It warms the cockles of my heart to read your posts again. sort of nostalgic. but really very helpful. Just knowing that Im not alone, gives me chizuk. The suggestions have been very helpful as well as the insights. It also gave me a chance to reflect on my issues. I think my real problem stems from not appreciating my wife enough, causing me to look elsewhere. Very bad for the marriage and for my neshama. Have to work on this alot. I think this might be the key....

THE NORM IN BARDSTOWN??

I'm sure you know what the Poskim in Bardstown say!