Hey Everyone! I know its been a while. I feel a bit bad that I dropped out but I didnt find posting helpful anymore. Things were going well so it just sort of fizzled. But now I started working in a new place. The first time that Im working with ladies, although they are all tzanua. My YH is working overtime. Need some guidance, tips, how to get my mind off this stupidity.

thats tuff stuff, hashem is putting your achievements to a thorough test, you are in the forefront of the Battle, this might be your life's goal.
i used to work with ladies for a long time, here are some methods:
1) internelise that how they dress IS NOT YOUR PROBLEM, don't care how they look, its not my wife, full stop.
2) know for a hard fact, that you will never ever ever have in reality something to do with them, because in fact you will not do anything, so it has no apeal to you, therefore don't look, don't lust, don't dream, don't think, dont talk, because its pointless. don't look in the face, or on the body shape, etc...
4) say a dedicated tefileh every day at shachris, & b4 going into work, hashem please help me to have a clean day today, dont give me any nisyonos.
5) make yourself a mantra, a slogan or posuk of chizuk, and repeat it mentally thorough the day
6) acknowloedge that the y"h is by far stronger then you, you must accept the fact, that without hashems help its litteraly impossible to conquer the y"h, knowing that, leads you to a decision that you must rely on hashem, and hashems hand is endless, no difference if its a small nisoyon, or a full day dealing with women, with hashems help you will come out a winner everywhere, go for it, it pays dividends

dont make any idle conversation

hello goodbye

good shabbos

zeh huu

take it fom a person who was shlepped in

  pretty much said it all. Basically just keep it professional and polite, nothing more.

I saw (I think it's from The Rebbe Reb Meilich) that whenever one feels bad thoughts coming he should say the Posuk "V'Nishmarto Mikol Dovor Roh".

The problem is I can never remember it when I need it.....

Gevura!

i think that "hello goodbye, good shabbos" is fairly simple to rememmber!

Gevura ShebYesod wrote on 19 Sep 2011 14:49:



chevra this is not a situation to be minimized or oversimplified

the nisayon of the workplace even tziusdiggeh workplace needs to be discussed

#1 in many instances you have a commanality with her
i.e. the work

or a common enemy

i.e. the boss

or she may be your boss or you may be hers

its really very difficult


32

the woman 9or man) at work comes in to work dressed well and

if it is in a service or retail setting is very out to plese

so it makes for a difficult situation

so if one can keep it to a 3 comment rule

be polite
good morning good nite good shabbos

you are a tzaddik

Thank you all. Shmeichel I have already started putting your advice into practice, thank you.
Gentlemen, the 3 comments rule seems to be totally unrealistic for me. Maybe Im wrong, but my nature is to be normal and not isolate myself. Granted I dont stand around the water cooler shmoozing with the ladies, but i think there should be a middle ground between the two.

Gevura ShebYesod wrote on 19 Sep 2011 14:49:

I think in Tzetel Koton he says to say Haknaani, v'Hachitti, V'Haprizzi etc, the problem is I never remember the right order 
I find this woman in the workplace problem very, very difficult. So I went straight here to get ideas, and there isn't that many....

this middle ground is extremley dangarous, we are not acrobats, its not worth to lose our neshomo for the sake of "being nice to her"
i would rather loose her symphaty, she might think that i am extreme or weird, but not loose my spirit
why not b4 going in work, think for a moment, "i have a real high holy neshomo, its beyond my dignity to lower myself"

Shmeichel Im not convinced that its all black and white as you say.
obormottel, I think the other suggestions that were given are very helpful.
specifically the fact that our internal wiring is messed up.
we have to stop looking and thinking about things that are simply not meant for us.
I heard that the same way adam harishon knew that chava was the only one for him, after all she was the only possibility, we also have to look at our world the same way. There is only one woman for me, my wife. everything else cant even come up on the radar screen.
I've been using the mantra idea
specifically the pasuk: לולא האמנתי לראות בטוב ה' בארץ חיים
to remind myself to use my eyes to see only good things
the tefillah is also a great suggestion

adam mated with all animals and livestock until he setteled with chava
adam spilled seeds for 130 years until he did tsuveh
your suggestions are gr8, but but...
who has a guarantee?

I don't think there is a guarantee. Nothing in life is guaranteed.

But the problem? That is real. Guaranteed!!

Gesher,
I find that I am very similar to you. I also was never satisfied with simply hello goodbye etc. I am very personable, and I like to be polite. So when looking for my own little "middle ground" I felt that it would be vital to set clear reminders for yourself while interacting with her. These were some of the things I came up with.
#1-  Obviously, there should never be first names used. Very dangerous. Much too personal.
#2 - Another thing I've worked on is to keep emails and text messages as short, to the point, and non personal as possible. The danger of private emails and texts is enormous. You say things more directly and personal when it is written privately than you ever would in person. I won't have my name on the bottom of my address, only Rabbi or Mr. _______________ . I won't reply when not necessary, just bec. This is hard to do, unless you concentrate on it. Example: After the message, she replies "Thanks". I don't reply back with "Your welcome" because it is unnecessary.

These are some of the things I found to help set a barrier between the genders.

I"ll end with a quick story. I recently started a new job in an out of town day school. The day before school I went in to set up my class room. I met over there the new English teacher. She was a single girl, not the greatest Tznius level (top a little low, skirt a little high....) and she was a post seminary out of towner. I was intent on being polite, as we would be working together with the same boys all year as far as parents, seating arrangements.... I asked her what her name was and she replied "Dina". I quickly apologized and said "I'm sorry, but I don't do first names. my name is Rabbi __________" She was a little embarrassed, but quickly reintroduced herselt as Miss ________. The funny thing is that since then she has been treating me much the way I wished to be treated. Cordial. Friendly. Distant. And since yesterday, she has started speaking to me in the 3rd person such as "Would it be ok if I called the Rabbi a little later?" I almost started laughing!!

I guess the moral of the story is, that if you are working with normal sensitive people, and surely if they are frum, it is ok to lay down the law in a polite way. Both you and her will appreciate it soon enough.

Hatzlocha,
Reb Yid

Welcome back Gesher.

I don't have anything to contribute here.  R' Yid just made some very good points.  Shmeichel too.

The more personable you get the harder the nesayon will be.

I understand you don't want to feel like a nudnik hermit.

It's a tough situation.  Real Tough.

Is there any way you could take your work to your own office?

Will any men in your office empathize with you?

kot 

Gesher,

To microquote Dov 'how precious is recovering from your addiction to you'? Personally, I know that if i start having extended conversations with my female co-workers i know it will inevitably lead to lusting. So i just say hi and goodbye. And yes they think I'm mean, one of them even filed a complaint to HR that i wasnt "professional" enough to her. But bottom line I value my recovery tremendously, and therefore I keep the convo to a minimum. For me there is no middle ground.

Ah! Reb Yid and Shteeble! A breath of fresh air! Good to hear from you. No offense to anyone else, they were just very involved when i first joined the party over 200 days ago. Thank you Reb Yid for understanding me. Your suggestions are helpful although the metzius here is different, we're all on the same page as far as tznius goes. No texting etc... they even refer to each other by last names only. I think the real issue is just the exposure to seeing ladies in the office and on the street. No shteeble there is no way out of this office setting. and yossi thank you for your perspective, but its just not my personality. I've worked my entire life on balancing between being charedi yet personable. B'ezras Hashem we will find the way to succeed! Most of shmeichel's suggestions have helped me tremendously already.