chancy wrote on 07 Mar 2024 19:40:

There is of course a lot to say about this. I don't think the reality is that in long term recovery you will never or even almost never have a fantasy or thought of lust after being where we have been in our past. Rather, lustful thoughts and fantasies will likely enter our minds on occasion still (certainly a lot less frequently than before, though), and I think a lot of recovery for me has been reprogramming how I react to these occasional thoughts of lust in the immediate few moments of their entering my consciousness. When I first started my recovery and was still in the throes of addiction, the entrance of a lustful thought into my brain meant that I was "doomed to masturbate because I have no choice now, it's inevitable, there's a thought of lust in my head, I have to masturbate at one point or another now so I may as well get it over with now." This, of course, is patently absurd to the recovered mind. There is nothing farther from the truth. This is classic addictive thinking. You absolutely NEVER "HAVE to masturbate." That is what we are convinced of, though, בשעת addiction. Now, though, 909 days into recovery, when a thought of lust enters my stream of thoughts, I usually have the maturity and experience to realize that this is nothing more than a thought. I can usually genuinely and calmly think to myself, "Huh, okay. That's a lustful thought. Anyway, I have things to do now. Let's move on.", and I just let myself move on without forcing the thought away and without checking to see if the thought is still there five minutes later. I simply let my mind relax and move on. It was by no means always this easy for me to move on from such thoughts. But this is ultimately central to success. The more you can relax the mind and simply let yourself slip into your next productive activity, the better off you will be.
There is really so much to say here and I don't have the ability to write down much more write now. This is a start. Please let me know if this was helpful for you and if you would like me to elaborate on something more.
I really wish for you the best. May Hashem help us all in our continued recovery.

Day 909:
Baruch Hashem, I'm still shteiging! Thank you, Hashem, for helping me to beat this addiction for 909 days and counting using all of the tools that you have endowed me with to do so and thank you to my friends here on GYE for your continued support! I have been soaring in my Avodas Hashem over the past several months and have attained new heights in my learning and davening, among other great new developments in life.

Remember that lust and fantasy are the root of the whole addiction. If you slaughter the root cause, the entire snake will die. If you just attack the symptoms, you are setting yourself up for failure.

You are not alone. I started my active addiction in my mid 50's, seven years ago, when I was really feeling down about my life situation. But Baruch Hashem, I am doing really fantastic now, thanks to Hashem and my program of recovery. It is working for me. I a happy to share more if you are interested. 

I asked AI and here’s the answer generated

“Halacha, Jewish law, has not specifically addressed AI-generated content, as it is a relatively recent development. However, the Jewish perspective on pornography is that it is considered inappropriate and harmful, as it objectifies individuals and can lead to addiction and negative consequences.

In terms of AI-generated content, it would likely be evaluated based on its content and intent. If the content is sexually explicit or objectifying, it would likely be considered inappropriate according to Jewish law. However, if the content is educational, artistic, or has a positive purpose, it may be viewed differently.

Ultimately, the Jewish perspective on AI-generated content would depend on the specific context and application, and would likely require ongoing discussion and interpretation by Jewish scholars and authorities”

OivedElokim wrote on 05 Mar 2024 16:54:

Hi Oived, so good to see your post!!

A long time ago, I read your thread with intense, avid interest and related to so much of it. Raw and honest, you beautifully articulate your struggles with porn and masturbation under the backdrop of grappling with your religious identity. 

So here's a warm and hearty welcome back!

I bolded part of your post because I relate to that very much as well. I figured I'd share with you that I kinda think the same way...and have nevertheless stayed (after deleting one username for a similar reason) and gleaned the benefits of friendship, support and continued inspiration in dealing with these struggles while carefully choosing between healing from addictive, destructive behaviors and ideals related to Halachic interpretation/hashkafa.

It takes introspection and knowing that for myself, this is where I draw the line of what I feel is healthy for me. Take the wheat and discard (what is our own personal) chaff.  

Looking forward to hearing your articulate pearls of wisdom, regardless of your religious situation.

Warmly,
- Youknowwho

Neglect and Entitlement: The Connection

Little Johnny grew up without any rules or consequences as a young boy.  He could practically do whatever he wanted while his parents were busy working.  He was always told he was a “good boy” and grew up feeling privileged and entitled to do whatever he wanted.
Modern addiction theory is that emotional, physical or sexual trauma can be a precursor for addiction. How does entitlement, without seemingly any trauma cause addiction?
The idea is that having no boundaries for your children and letting them do whatever they want, whenever they want, without consequences, is a form of neglect.   According to Karen Michie of Karen Michie Counseling, “Even if someone has not experienced much in the way of obvious trauma, sometimes it's not so much what happened "to them" as it is what didn't happen "for them" that lays the groundwork for addiction. Children need attunement, nurturing, the right to be vulnerable, healthy boundaries, and the right to be authentic.”  

According to Dr. Kate Balestrieri, CST, CSAT-S, PACT-II, EMDR, TSY, founder of Modern Intimacy, “False empowerment is a form of trauma (neglect of appropriate emotional and behavioral boundary setting and the opportunity for humility and boredom), and so it feels especially insidious, because the trauma is not always perceived as trauma, because it felt so good to be privileged. The constant onslaught of "You’re great!” without any negative consequences sets the state for an incredibly fragile ego, and poor distress tolerance, hence the reason to jump into more conquesting/intensity to drown out the reality (and terror) of a person’s mediocrity. 
Addicts act out on “bad days” when they have negative feelings and their needs are not being met.  They also act out on “good days” to celebrate their success.  But to the addict, “things going well” can be overwhelming, according to Kelly McDaniel, author of Ready to Heal. “It’s a terrible irony, ANY feelings cause a desire to dissociate because it’s TOO real.”  People feel they don’t deserve success, so they screw it up by giving in to the fear with drugs, alcohol, sex, gambling, food and excitement.
The hunt for the person, behavior or substance that will alleviate the fear is what becomes most important.  As Dr. Patrick Carnes says in his book, Recovery Zone, “Without the self- certainty that comes with deep attachment within the family, addiction becomes a refuge for the anxiety one feels about being unacceptable to others.  If you don’t trust others, alcohol, drugs, sex, food and excitement will deliver on their promise.  The addict starts to have a relationship with the object of their hunt and their real partners don’t seem real anymore.  What is real is the hunt, the risk and the behavior.”

Acting out in addiction comes from not having our needs met, not feeling like a priority in our primary relationship and looking to others to fill up the need for attention, attachment and intensity.  What’s missing is the addict’s inability to be vulnerable enough to be intimate in his primary relationship because he’s focused on the intensity of the hunt.

notezy wrote on 03 Mar 2024 15:26:

I haven't watched it in a few months and I have no reason to do so. I often tell people on GYE to watch it because I noticed that there are people who have been on GYE for years and are still stuck but they never did the program. I think it is underutilized.

yitzchokm wrote on 03 Mar 2024 15:09:

Sounds like your addicted to the F2F program maybe you should do it a 3rd time to quit that
P.S. Make sure you do all the exercises 

I was addicted to the forum at one point and I used the F2F program to overcome it. I went through the program from the beginning a second time and substituted social media for porn wherever porn was mentioned and I substituted connection for the red heart. It was ironic but it worked. I suggest that you do the same, only substitute vaping for porn. The opposite of addiction is connection, not sobriety, so it should work. You should do all the exercises as well.

So I'm trudging down this road to 90 bezras Hashem and I can't believe I've made it this far... surprisingly though this last week has been extremely hard for me. I just always figured that as time goes on, this whole nisayon would get easier and eventually just go away. So I was surprised that I found myself struggling as of late. 

I reached out to BennyH who texted me some beautiful words of chizuk in my time of need and it really got me thinking. Maybe these ha'aros are pashut to everyone else but to me it was a real einfal. I'm going to share these here in order to make seder out of my thoughts and perhaps others will find it helpful as well. (sorry if this post is a bit long)

Here was the conversation:
Me: I'm struggling as of late, I feel like and I lost my cheishek and starting to slip and I don't know why.
Benny: We need to find the source of this. What's really going on in life? What's bothering you?
Me: You're actually right, lately I've been struggling with different stresses, chovos etc.
Benny: "Yes, I can relate... my finances are bothering me too, if I may share with u brother is that; first thing I need to know no matter what I do or don't do I'm under his control & guidance at each & every moment not I & not him or them or if the entire universe including tzadikim angles or tzadikim that past on, can not change an iota what my loving father in heaven decreed upon me I can't gain a single cent or loose a cent if it's not in plan, I have the choice to submit myself to this truth (1st Ani maamin) or I can choose to live in my ego state that I should of or I can change stuff.
Once I'm really clear I can move on to the next step by calmly trying to do what makes sense to increase my income but knowing that I don't have the power to get results, I just need to try as if I am doing something but in the end of each day remember I really did nothing it was only him and thank him if I saw results & if no results came up let it go cuz he has different & better plans
Really every single stress or negative voice I have is all דמיונות it just takes some work to see it there's only one creator and one power that's in control, my job is to try do my creator's will I think he would have me be"

I still need to to review the bitachon shmooze many more times, but here's what I chapped, I used to think that we act out because we have ta'ava and we can't control ourselves. Even though I know the idea that people tend to act our more when stressed, angry, depressed etc, regardless, the underlying issue is lack of self control.

This conversation got me to realize that the underlying issue is something else. Perhaps the word is 'comfort', we need to feel comfortable and when something is uncomfortable, maybe due to stress, anger, resentment, boredom etc we look to do things that will provide us with comfort. This is possiby in our DNA or maybe because of the way we were raised as babies, our mothers comforted us when we were in distress.

Now here is where we turn to ta'avos as we're hoping that it will provide us with the comfort that we seek. In reality of course, it just creates a very temporary distraction and nothing more. After the fact we're still just as distressed and now with a whole truckload of guilt and feelings of being a failure on top of it. In many cases the new feelings of discomfort can push a person to run away again to ta'avos to find reprieve and hence the addiction cycle begins.

I feel that understanding this is very important. When a person is struggling with urges he needs to look beyond self-control, something is bothering him and if he can look at the issue and realize that acting out isn't going to give him what he needs, and instead tries to find what can truly alleviate his discomfort, he can really fix the issue.

The greatest part of this conversation for me was seeing that ultimately this nisayon can bring a person to shlaimus in bitachon. It doesn't make sense to me that we struggle so much with this terrible nasayon and it's just an isolated area of our avodas Hashem. It must be that by fixing this area, a person is actually shteiging in all areas and becoming the person that he needs to become in this world. If someone can come to true emunah and bitachon as a result of going through this terrible nisayon, then maybe one day he can turn around and say gam zu l'tova, the nisayon was all worth it because it brought him to where he needs to be in life and without it he would have never gotten there.

Thank you for taking the time to read the gantza drasha. 

I am began to fall into Addiction and my road to recovery almost 8 years ago, strongly so for the last 2 and half years, but over the last 3 months and 17 days, I am have been basically lust free - miraculously from Above, my friends and my SA 12 Step Program. I would like to be able to help others more (my Step 12) which helps keep me strong and sober, one day at a time. I have been to Rehab twice (30 days each) but have found that I like the 12 Steps, mostly. It is working for me, when I work my program on a daily basis. I have tried to heal myself with just ruchnius, huge submersion into Torah, Tefilah, Musar, Inyanei Kedusha, but realize now that I also need the 12 Steps and Program, and grow through it every single day, so I feel. I have been able to synthesize it with Torah and Yiras Shomayim and like to help others now. Open for suggestions and comradery in my happy road to living in recovery. 
I am interested in hearing your thoughts and sharing our ups and downs and successes together. Progressive victory over lust. 

thanks for bringing up this book , i would like to hear from ppl here if they used that method , an found it helpfull for lust an masturbations ,fantasies .?? 
thanks 

bmgporn wrote on 20 Jan 2023 14:40:

I am NOT a sex addict!!!! I go to the grocerys and stare at girls. I want them!!!!!!!! My wife is cute but I still want other girls even if they are not nice.
what am i ? a normal MAN.
amazing stuff!!

What can be done?
learn תורה

keep shtieging,
cande

what is this?

Day 25
Still listening to this conversation. Long but fascinating. He says how addiction or acting out isn’t the problem it’s the solution meaning why r u acting out. It’s because I’m trying to cope with something or escape something. So the reason I act out is the solution I have for the deeper problems. Once you figure out what that is you can figure out the correct way to respond and then you won’t need to go to p and m. Can’t write it all here but I am starting to really try to stay aware and figure out why I went to this and what I can do to respond in a healthy way.