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13 May 2025 16:42
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yossis.smart
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Why is the post-addiction period so hard? Why the need for "insanity therapy"? Why can't I just get back to a normal life and be a good person?
Recently, someone I knew was uncomfortable with the life he was living, and decided to run away and explore the frozen expanses of Alaska, thinking that he might find more peace and enjoyment in that adventure. So he traveled to the last house on the edge of the last settlement beyond which only lay ice, and no signs of life.
At that house, he told his hosts his idea. But those grizzled veterans of the landscape he was about to trek through warned him not to go further - his wonderful adventure might end and disaster, and even if he would somehow make it back, it would be a painful process. But he waved it off - he would deal with the consequences later.
Putting on the warmest clothes he could find, he left the safety of the house and his kind hosts and plunged into a trek that seemed wild and wonderful and scary at the same time. Something inside him told him he should go back before he went too far and got lost, but another side of him assured him that he knew they way back, and the desire to explore was irresistible.
Soon, he started to feel sweaty from his heavy coat, so he removed that and some other layers, sure he could manage without. But then a chill and a tiredness started setting in, and he wasn't quite sure of the path to get back. Anyways, who knew what amazing find lurked around the next corner?
Then - around the corner of a bend in the glacier - he saw some unusual form rise out of the flat ice, and he rushed to see what it could be. As he approached, he saw that it was an ice statue of a beautiful woman, surely expertly carved by an Eskimo who had intended for him to experience it up close. As he touched the statue and was entranced by the artistic form, he felt an urge to hug it, hold it and not let go of this experience for which he had traveled so long and so far. He felt the ice freeze his whole body, but he was at peace. Why care anymore about finding warmth? He drifted off into a deep sleep....
Through a deep haze, he heard the shouts of the inhabitants of the house he had left so long ago it seemed like an eternity. He could barely breath or hear, much less make any noise, but he knew instinctively that they were trying to help him out of the goodness of their hearts. He felt them trying to pull him off the statue, but he was completely frozen to it. With no other choice, they chopped the statue down, and, with him attached, loaded it onto the dog sleds, furiously trying to speed home before it was too late.
Back at the house, next to a blazing fire, they tried to chip away at the ice and peel him off with sharp tools, limb by limb. As each finger came free, he felt the frostbite, the burning sensation of warmth returning, but it was so painful. Sometimes he wanted to just grab the statue again and be numbed from the pain, but then he knew he would have to relive it again in the process of breaking free. With every new breath of life, every movement, he learned to become thankful for the pain, thankful for the efforts of those who did not give up on him despite his not heeding their passionate pleas for him to not end up in his sorry state.
Finally, after the pain and the tingling that seemed to last forever subsided, he was able to break his body free of the statue. He flung it as far as he could out of the door and swore to not look back. Whenever that itch, that desire for a frozen adventure came back, he remembered not only the exhortations of his now close friends, but also the inevitable pain accompanying the return that was DEFINITELY not worth the risk.
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13 May 2025 11:16
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azivashacheit101
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Next we will get involved in a crucial tool, attitude, and way of life, which is extremely useful both to addicts and non-addicts alike. This tool is Step-3.
Step 3 is not a one time event, but an attitude which is worked daily multiple times as the need arises.
Of course if you are a real addict this will only take you so far and you need to get your butt to an SA meeting NOW.
Create your own frum version of the third step prayer (found in the attachment below), and say it/internalize it many times each day. It works absolute wonders, we feel that we have to control everything especially our own minds; it's a failure on many levels and just makes us sicker and stupider over time. Things don't go our way and we then act out. We must learn to always Let Go and Let G-d.
Let go, let go, let go, it's one of the most important things we can hear.
I highly recommend and urge y'all to read the below attachment daily and putting it into practice at once. This means when lust creeps in speak to Hashem calmly in english and say something along the lines "Ribono Shel Olam I'm crazy, I can't deal with this, I'm giving it over to you, you deal with it, please run my mind, thoughts, and desires for me because I'm nuts and I can't do it". Say this calmly as if you are speaking to someone (bec. you are) not the way many people scrunch their faces up as if they are constipated when they daven Shemoneh Esraei (and you don't have to join the Shmoneh Esraei jumping jacks club either).
The same should be done when our mind starts racing or going places that we don't want it to. When anger, fear, anxiety, OCD, ego, self-centeredness, selfishness, resentments, shame, guilt, deppression, procrastination, jelousy, over thinking, fantasy or just our mind runs wild just stop and calmly daven.
It works, but for some it takes time and must be given a chance, try it for a few months and really mentally give your mind, life, and will over to the care of Hashem. We can't carry our burden or control the world, but Hashem can.
This should be done in all of life's situations where we can't control ourselves or others. When our In-Laws, spouses, parents, siblings, bosses, friends ect. are making us crazy we have a solution. Just stop, breath, speak to Hashem and give up the whole situation to him-to his control, and then just take the next right action That Hashem Wants You To Take, NOT the action that you want to take.
Here is Step 3 as written in The Big Book found on pages 60-63
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11 May 2025 11:41
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azivashacheit101
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To the Newcomer
What Works for Us
Those of us who are recovering in Sexaholics Anonymous were driven here by many different forms of the same problem. Some of us fit society's stereotypes of what a sexaholic might be and some of us did not. Some of us were driven to buy or sell sex on the streets, others to have it anonymously in bars or public places. Some of us found ourselves in painful and destructive affairs or consumed by an unhealthy obsession with a particular person or succession of persons. Many of us kept our obsessions to ourselves, resorting to compulsive masturbation, pictures, fetishes, voyeurism (i.e. stalking/looking into windows) or exhibitionism. Some of us victimized others. And with many of us, our compulsions took a toll on family, coworkers, and friends. Very often, we felt we were the only ones who could not stop, that we were doing this-whatever it was- against our will.
When we came to SA, we found that in spite of our differences, we shared a common problem-the obsession of lust, usually combined with a compulsive demand for sex in some form. (Including sex with self i.e. masturbation.) We identified with one another on the inside. Whatever the details of our problem, we were dying spiritually-dying of guilt, fear, and loneliness. As we came to see that we shared a common problem, we also came to see that for us, there is a common solution-the Twelve Steps of recovery practiced in a fellowship and on a foundation of what we call sexual sobriety. (see pp.191-193)
Our definition of sobriety represents, for us, the basic and necessary condition for lasting freedom from the pain that brought us to SA. We have found that nothing else works. When we have tried to deny what our common experience has taught us, we have found that recovery still eludes us. And this seems to be true whether we are male or female; married or single; whether our acting out was with the same or opposite sex; whether our relationships were "committed", "meaningful", or one night stands; or whether we just resorted to a little sex with self as a "physical outlet." As the men and women of Alcoholics Anonymous learned over fifty years ago (now it's almost 100 years), "half-measures availed us nothing"!
We don't claim to understand all of the ramifications of sexual sobriety. Some of us have come to believe that there is a deeper spiritual significance in sexual sobriety, while others simply report that without a firm and clear bottom line, our "cunning, baffling, and powerful" sexaholism takes over sooner or later. Nor do we claim that sobriety alone will lead to a lasting and joyous recovery. Like alcoholics, we can be "dry" without being sober in a deeper sense. We don't even claim that sexual sobriety will make one feel better immediately. We, like other addicts, can go through withdrawal symptoms when we give up our "drug." Nonetheless, in spite of the questions, struggles, and confusion that we have gone through, we find that sexual sobriety is truly "the key to a happy and joyous freedom we could otherwise never know." That's why we keep coming back to SA.
We have a solution. We don't claim that it's for everybody, but for us, it works. If you identify with us and think you may share our problem, we'd like to share our solution with you.
A Caution
We suggest that newcomers to Sexaholics Anonymous not reveal their sexual past to a spouse or family member who does not already know of it, without careful consideration and a period of sexual sobriety, and even then, only after prior discussion with an SA sponsor or group. Typically, when we come into the program, we want to share our excitement with those closest to us and tell all right away. Such disclosures might injure our family or others and should be confined to the group of which we are a part until a wise course is indicated. Of course, if there is any chance we have put others in danger, we take steps to try to correct that.
Few things can so damage the possibility of healing in the family as a premature confession to spouse or family where sacred bonds and trust have been violated. Unwittingly, such a confession can be attempts on our part to dump our guilt, get back into the good graces, or make just another show of willpower. Great caution is advised here.
Amends to family must begin with a sexually sober, changed attitude and behavior on a daily basis. Then, as we grow in recovery, we will find how to make direct amends. Help from your sponsor and group is indispensable here. There's always a way, if we really want to make things right.
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11 May 2025 04:42
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moishelle
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Hi everyone it's been a while since I last posted (I simply didn't have much to say, all was more or less fine) but I was reading a lot here and I must say there is a lot of inspiring threads here.
This past Thursday I fell once again after about 47 days. 
There's nothing really I can blame it on, which is a good thing because now I was forced to take full responsibility for my failure, so I did a lot of deep thinking into my life and what I'm doing wrong, I came to this conclusion:
I've been on GYE for a good few months, I've BH came a really far way, my life has changed in so many ways for the better, and most importantly going from using p&m as my sleeping pill, my boredom pill, anxiety pill, my run to for "love" after a fall out with my loved ones, etc. to BH getting to a place or more accurately a solid mindset that I don't need it at all p&m is overall a no-go, and for the first time in years I was able to fall asleep without any of it, I was able to deal with anxiety, and fall outs...
But here is my shortcoming, although I was willing or better yet excited and motivated to cut p&m out of my life, yet when it comes to basic shmiras eineiyim, just looking at women in the streets, is something that not only was I not working on, but in a way I really am not looking forward to working on it, in a way I want to continue looking and simply enjoying the sites.
Up until now I wasn't afraid of continuing to look, because until I got to the above mentioned mindset of p&m is an overall no-go, when I would see a woman in the street that would tick me off, I would go into zombie mode for the rest of the day just fantasizing about her until I would get home at night and lock myself up in the bathroom for privacy and go for a full blown episode of p&m, but since I got to this new mindset of p&m is a no go, I had basically no struggle at all seeing a triggering woman and nothing would happen to me because if there is nothing I can do about it, then why go into zombie mode.
But I'm not just looking, in a way I'm really addicted to looking, I often find myself driving in places where I know there will be lustful sites, (I call this my "lust drives") I'll try to stick to the route and lane closest to the sidewalks so I can ensure I don't "miss" that passing woman (who once close enough I see that she's not even so gorgeous...), or when waiting for my wife whilst she's shopping I'll try to find a parking spot at the intersection to ensure I dont "miss" any passing women...
The problem is though that when I think about trying to put in the effort to cutting this out, I get this feeling like "no I'm not ready for this, I was happy and willing to give up on the p&m, but I outright don't want to give up looking at women, it's just asking to much from me", and I think IMHO it even makes sense that I feel this way, because everyone knows that pornography is a screwed up way of thinking which more or less didn't exist until about 40 - 60 years ago, but looking at women is a natural desire a person has which is around since the day of creation of mankind, and to be honest it doesn't even feel so wrong, although it is wrong but it just doesn't feel like anything as bad as pornography, so why should I just want to and feel motivated and excited to cut it out of my life.
But the reality is that look what it caused to me, I felt comfortable with my new mindset, I wasn't afraid to take some lust drives after all I'm not going to act out and I didn't go into zombie mode because p&m isn't an option, so I was also not afraid to go filter poking for hours... until I fell...
So now I know that I shouldn't have gotten so comfortable with just this mindset, and being totally Hefker with my shmiras eineiyim, I have to really work on it just as importantly as I worked on p&m, but I will need hard work and I'm open to any ideas and help anyone can offer.
Thank you all my dear GYE brothers.
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10 May 2025 19:21
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azivashacheit101
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As you will come to see, The Solution is not here to tell you how to stop lusting or how to change. It's an overview of what happens to someone who comes to meetings, participates in fellowship, and actually works the steps with a sponsor. To really and fully understand what The Solution is referring to you probably have to spend a few weeks in meetings and listen to some good talks from SA old-timers. I will do my best and try to post some of my own limited commentary and explanations to it, though It will probably be a mediocre job.
Just one note: The Solution refers to the term surrender a few times over. Surrender is a huge topic which we will IY"H deal with as the 5th of The 18 Wheeler. Another term for surrender is to Let Go we see what this means later.
The Solution
We saw that our problem was threefold: physical, emotional, and spiritual. Healing had to come about in all three.
The crucial change in attitude began when we admitted we were powerless, that our habit had us whipped. We came to meetings, and withdrew from our habit. For some, this meant no sex with themselves (Masturbation) or others, including not getting into relationships. For others it also meant "drying out" and not having sex with the spouse for a time to recover from lust. (Drying out is probably more nogeah for addicts in very advanced stages of addiction who are doing much more than just porn and masturbation, but I don't know for sure.)
We discovered that we could stop, that not feeding the hunger didn't kill us, that sex was indeed optional. There was hope for freedom, and we began to feel alive. Encouraged to continue, we turned more and more away from our isolating obsession with sex and self and turned to G-d and others. (Meaning helping and getting helped by others)
All this was scary, We couldn't see the path ahead, except that others had gone that way before. Each new step of surrender felt it would be off the edge into oblivion, but we took it. And instead of killing us, surrender was killing the obsession! We had stepped into the light, into a whole new way of life.
The fellowship gave us monitoring and support to keep us from being overwhelmed, a safe haven where we could finally face ourselves. Instead of covering our feelings with compulsive sex, we began exposing the roots of our spiritual emptiness and hunger. And the healing began.
As we faced our defects, we became willing to change; surrendering them broke the power they had over us. We began to be more comfortable with ourselves and others for the first time without our "drug".
Forgiving all who had injured us, and without injuring others, we tried to right our wrongs. At each amends more of the dreadful load of guilt dropped from our shoulders, until we could lift our heads, look the world in the eye, and stand free.
We began practicing positive sobriety, taking the actions of love to improve our relations with others. We were learning how to give; and the measure we gave was the measure we got back. We were finding what none of the substitutes had ever supplied. We were making the real connection. We were home.
"We saw that our problem was threefold..."
The Physical Problem: This is referring to two issues A) the obsession with lust and sex in general. This includes both constantly thinking about lust, and also mentally turning many normal situations and gestures into some sort of sexual fantasies. b) The idea that once we start we can't stop. This does not mean it's impossible to stop, but that once we start and ingest some lust (eg. watch a little bit of porn, a dirty movie, fantasize a bit too much, walk around the street looking for women to look at/stalk) it becomes more and more compulsive and difficult to stop. This does not necessarily happen every time ingest a bit of lust, but we never know when it will hit that point.
The Emotional Problem: This means we addicts have a difficult time (and for some no clue how to) dealing with our emotions and defect of character.
Defects of character include but are not limited to dishonesty (with ourselves not realizing how crazy and abnormal our acting out is), ego, self-centeredness, laziness, self pity, selfishness, fear (anxiety, OCD, insecurities), guilt, control, overthinking, depression, resentments ect.
When these crop up we tune out of life be getting an urge to act out and then acting upon it, For me personally it took me a long time to see that this was happening. Now many times when I get an urge, I can think back to what was going through my head right before the urge popped in and pinpoint that something was bothering me. Steps 4-7 deal with fixing our character defects, and steps 3,10,11 help us deal with negative emotions and stopping trying to control our lives and mind, and by letting go and giving everything up to Hashem.
The Spiritual Problem: This is referring to the void and emptiness that we feel inside of ourselves. We need to fill up that void so we therefore turn to lust. 12-Steps teaches us how to fill that up by turning to Hashem and helping others. Some may say "but I tried that already I davened my kishkes out, cried, and did teshuva yet I'm still acting out!" The answer to this question is complex and will take a lot of time to explain, but what you need to know is 12-Steps have worked for millions (if you include all addictions alcohol, drugs gambling ect.) and it will work for you too if you put in the effort.
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09 May 2025 03:07
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helperfromheaven18
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CHASDEI HASHEM Today is a very special day. Today is day 180. That’s 180 days completely clean of masturbation. (There was one day where I viewed some explicit images without realizing that completely clean doesn’t just mean no masturbation. So iyh I will hit 90 days completely clean in a few days) THANK YOU HASHEM! My story of hitting rock bottom (it’s pretty mild b”h compared to many of other rock bottoms) is in my profile so please check that out if you want my full story. Here’s my story of this 180 day journey. November 8th was the last time I fell after discovering gye. I remember looking at the black screen of my phone after I fell with my emotionless face reflecting off of it. I felt stupid and numb… it was a familiar feeling. I just got to israel for the zman and fell in the first week. Sighing I checked into gye and read a couple of accounts. I was hooked by what’s I saw and felt. I then discovered the concept of 90 days. Standing up I decided that since I have an opportunity this zman to keep away from my phone I’m going to make the push to 90. My record in 9+ years of struggle, was 30th days. The next day, Friday, I went to the Mikva… I’m not a Mikva guy. Coming back I felt a fire and I set my plan into motion. My phone (which is heavily filtered and while not being able to access explicit things I was able to get enough) will be stored somewhere away from me where I would have to travel to get it, and I’ll be using it once a week for one or 2 hours. My idea was that I would battle throughout the week with the inevitable urges and fantasies and sights but save my main energy for the fight on phone day. My rules for the day when I had my phone were: Be conscious that this is my most exposed moment No bringing it into the bathroom No bringing my AirPods with me Use it only around others And when I get a good streak, be conscious of that streak. What followed was chaos. One day I’ll write the specific moments where I saw the hand of Hashem, but in general it was split into 3 fazes. The first 2 months was me getting regular urges and not knowing how to manage them so just ignoring them or creating distractions. Sometimes being frozen right before acting out but then pulling back. As the weeks went by I grew more and more surprised that I was still standing. After a month and a half were the strongest urges I’ve ever had. Wild times. The second faze I pushed to my original (insurmountable) goal. Dazed, I stumbled to the 90 day mark and as I passed the finish line I found I was hungry for more.(which was very surprising for me cause I said I’ll m after making it 90 days) It really became easier and even more habitual to manage how I was feeling. These were pretty parev weeks bh, and I starting believing that 180 might be a possibility. The third faze, the last 2 months were very emotional. I told my rebbi (who’s also a psychologist) about my journey and what he thinks. I told him and cried to him about the anxiety I was feeling from my rock bottom problem, and he told me that I was insecure and that I should know that I’m loved. He then explained to me that the best thing for me to do was to tell my parents, and let them love and show me they accept me. So I had to wait to come back from israel and finally the day came to tell them and bchasdei hashem it went very well. I cried, they cried, and we all came out better for it. Bein hazmanim, a historically bad time for bachurim, was a time for me to strategize. There was no way I’m letting myself be home alone. Bh I was able to keep to it, except for one day I somehow ended up by myself and I ended up having the strongest urges I remember having. Bh with hashems help and gye’s help I got through it. Now we’re 2 weeks into summer zman and I hit this goal. The previously unthought of unattainable milestone. Because of this change in my life I got some incredible benefits! (Obviously besides for doing hashems will) I connect with learning and davening better. I connect with all people better. I have more self confidence. I love myself. I’m more emotional. I smile more. I look at women in a healthier way. I’m gonna go to the Mikva tomorrow hopefully, to bring it full circle. I feel like a new person. Even like a child. Of course I have the regular desires still, and of course I’m terrified of the accounts that I’ve read of people that hit well over 180 days and fell badly again.I also know this is just the beginning. But a new beginning. To all the guys out there, single or married. You can do it too. It’s appropriate that my goal ends up by parshas kedoshim. It’s a commandment given to all of us. Regardless of what we did or have been through, hashem commands us to become kedoshim. Believe that hashem believes in you. Make practical plans and cut off all access. Find connections to fill in the gaps that your addiction was filling in for. Read the forums and stories on gye. Post your story and celebrate your victories. I love you guys. Thanx for reading my message! With hashems help I’ll see you guys by day 270!
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08 May 2025 19:26
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azivashacheit101
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In the back of the SA White Book appears Appendix 2 which is titled "Readings Commonly Used in Meetings" these come from other areas of 12-Step literature and are sometimes read at the beginning of a meeting. It may be worthwhile to have a look at some of them before going further.
"The Problem" is the first passage in the white book located on page v, and is also brought in Appendix 2 on page 203.
"The Problem
Many of us felt inadequate, unworthy, alone, and afraid. Our insides never matched what we saw on the outsides of others.
Early on, we came to feel disconnected-from parents, from peers, from ourselves. We tuned out with fantasy and masterbation. We plugged in by drinking in the pictures, the images, and pursuing the objects of our fantasies. We lusted and wanted to be lusted after.
We became true addicts: sex with self, promiscuity, adultery, dependency relationships, and more fantasy. We got it through the eyes; we bought it, we sold it, we traded it, we gave it away. We were addicted to the intrigue, the tease, the forbidden. The only way we knew to be free from it was to do it. "Please connect with me and make me whole!" we cried with outstretched arms. Lusting after the Big Fix, we gave away our power to others.
This produced guilt, self-hatred, remorse, emptiness, and pain, and we were driven ever inward, away from reality, away from love, lost inside ourselves.
Our habit made true intimacy impossible. We could never know real union with another because we were addicted to the unreal. We went for the "chemistry," the connection that had the magic, because it bypassed intimacy and true union. Fantasy corrupted the real; lust killed love.
First addicts, then love cripples, we took from others to fill up what was lacking in ourselves. Conning ourselves time and again that the next one would save us, we were really losing our lives."
Next comes a passage titled "The Solution" found on page 61 in the SA White Book, and in Appendix 2 on page 204. It will IY"H be posted in the near future.
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08 May 2025 11:08
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hashem help me
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altehmirrer wrote on 07 May 2025 02:12:
Hello chevra, though i'd share something with you guys, mainly to get it clear, and who knows maybe one of you אדידי התורה will identify,
As i'm moving along in this journey, and becoming more self aware and self confident and self accepting, i'm realizing how much of a slave i always was, i'm not referring to being a slave to my taivos, (which of course is also true), I mean that i was never focused on my true self, rather always pretending (to myself and others) that i am something that i'm not, since i had a picture in my head of what a real good yungerman looks like, i felt that it's the only way to really be...., so even though i didn't feel true to myself i still had no other choice, that's what gave me some small feeling of purpose, i was a true slave, living for a image, and not being my true self, and i was really not happy, really not fulfilled, i didn't choose to sit and learn, i didn't choose to daven..., i was doing it because that's what's expected of me, and it wasn't feeling real, there was no meaning and no purpose, so of course as time went on it got harder and harder, because it's hard to keep on doing something so demanding when i felt like i was actually doing nothing, and as i got older and got less and less motivated it only got harder, my image didn't matter as much..... (i could be maarich on all the details but הזמן יכלו והם לא יכלו)
Either way since bh i really started working on myself, and i am becoming ok with myself, actually more then ok, i am so so jubilant to be who i am, while yes i did make many mistakes.... and though i really hope never to do it again, who knows? still i am now able to be comfortable with who i am, it's not hard for me to face what i've done, while it was very very bad, and i own it and i have to do teshuvah, what was was...., i now understand how and why i evolved...., i'm not judging myself, but the main thing is that i am honestly doing my best today, that's all that matters, to be able to wake up with a plan to do what's right today, to further my growth today, to be brutally honest with myself, after all hashem gave me back my neshoma for a reason, and not trying to just fit some image, while yes maybe there is some truth about the optimal yungerman vision that i have...., (which of course has some room for debate), but right now that's not who i am, maybe one day but today let me just focus on honest growth, right now i am my optimal yungerman, and today i am making hashem as proud as possible with me, because i am doing my true best! (It's funny but the actual truth is that now i even fit in closer to "that" yungerman, because bh i am comfortable davening (usually), and learning most of the time).
One small observation that i had recently was that it is my choice to be in beis medresh today, i'm only here because that's what i want to do, not because others expect that from me, it is so geshmak to be learning because i want to, and to daven bec. i want to, ובחרת בחיים, it is so good that i am spending my day doing what i want to do, is it perfect? no there are some times that it's still hard, but bh it's light years better then what it was, and it's amazing!
Another point is that in the past i always felt like a good yungerman sits and learns the entire seder.... so whenever i took a break i felt guilty, and if i felt guilty you know where that leads....., either way while yes it is true that it is so so special to learn full sedorim without any batalah whatsoever, but you have to be really holding there, bh there are people that are there, i'm not one of them (yet), iyh one day...., so i decided that i will take a intentional coffee break (around 10 minutes) halfway through seder, guess what? i don't even feel guilty, it's not wrong for me! it's where i am holding right now and that's ok, so while my chavrusas don't leave their seat at all, i get up get a coffee shmooze a little, then i return to him confidently ready to continue shteiging, feeling like i am doing my right thing right now, (btw the coffee room is teeming, seems like many others had my plan for a while, i'm just late to the game).
There's a path for everyone, the key is to stick to your own, were all heading to the same place, but each of us at our own pace,
Wishing us all the best from the mir.
I printed out this masterpiece of a post and plan on giving it to a few rebbeim. It is the responsibility of mechanchim to share this concept with talmidim. The damage of "doing because society says i have to" is immense. Interestingly, in the modern orthodox world you will find many individuals that independently chose to daven better, learn with greater hasmada, work on themselves, etc., because the society's expectations are much less intense. So, although in the more chareidy world there is a mehalech to mandatorily keep everyone up to a certain standard, we must still allow space way below the level of perfection, so one can learn and daven because he wants to.
Regarding the comment about people in SA stopping to daven etc., there is a lot to be said; but it is not for on a public forum. But in order to reply, let's say the following based on conversations with many individuals who are in SA and many who left. SA is a necessary resource for those who truly need it and should be cautiously encouraged where it is clear that one is a true addict, and that that individual will actually attend consistently and do his 12-step work. However, guys who do not really need it, or those that attend for a while and then throw in the towel there as well, or those that by nature are simply inconsistent and do not keep up with what is necessary and expected in SA, often remain with the many negative behaviors and ideas after they prematurely say goodbye to SA, without reaping any of the benefits.
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08 May 2025 10:59
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azivashacheit101
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Before begining The 18 Wheeler it may be appropriate to quote a few paragraphs found on pages 3&4 in the SA White Book titled "What Is a Sexaholic and What Is Sexual Sobriety?". This essay helps define who is a sexaholic and needs SA to recover from their addiction.
Later on in this thread we will IY"H post how someone can figure out if he is a true sexaholic or not.
We addicts are notrious liars and great experts at fooling ourselves with tens of rationalizations for what we do. We rarely recognize our own insanity and craiziness until after we complete some solid recovery work. Before doing the work everyone of us says to ourselves "well I am am not a real sexaholic".
"What Is a Sexaholic and What Is Sexual Sobriety?
We can only speak for ourselves. The specialized nature of Sexaholics Anonymous can best be understood in terms of what we call the sexaholic. The sexaholic has taken himself or herself out of the whole contexed of what is right or wrong. He or she has lost control, no longer has the power of choice, and is not free to stop. Lust has become an addiction. Our situation is like that of the alcoholic who can no longer tolerate alcohol and must stop drinking altogether but is hooked and cannot stop. So it is with the sexaholic , or sex drunk, who can no longer tolerate lust but cannot stop.
Thus, for the sexaholic, any form of sex with one's self (Masterbation is sex with self in SA language) or with partners other than the spouse is progressively addictive and destructive. We also see that lust is the driving force behind our sexual acting out, and true sobriety includes progressive victory over lust. These conclusions were forced upon us in the crucible of our experiences and recovery; we have no other options. But we have found that acceptance of these facts is a key to a happy and joyous freedom we could otherwise never know.
This will and should discourage many inquirers who admit to sexual obsession or compulsion but who simply want to control and enjoy it, much as the alcoholic would like to control and enjoy drinking. Until we have been driven to the point of despair, until we really wanted to stop but could not, we did not give ourselves to this program of recovery. Sexaholics Anonymous is for those who know they have no other options but to stop, and their own enlightened self-intrest must tell them this."
If I may add two comments of my own,
1) While the definition of sobriety in SA is no masterbation or sex with anyone other than the spouse, sobriety and recovery includes a "progressive victory over lust". This means to include all forms of lusting such as lustful looking and fantasizing ect.
2) After reading the above passage some may question how addiction and the concept of bechira in yiddishkiet don't clash. I plan to address this issue later on while discussing Step 1 in The 18 Wheeler, IY"H it will become clear that this is a non-issue.
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07 May 2025 21:01
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azivashacheit101
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In this thread I will b"n post from "The 18 Wheeler" and some other relevant 12-Step literature.
I will also post some of my own 2 cents, things that work for me, and some of my very limited ESH (Experience, Strength and Hope).
I would love to hear feedback; all feedback and questions are welcome but please identify yourself first as either a member of SA (or other 12-Step group) or a non-member in order to put things into context.
The 18 Wheeler is found in the back of the SA white book and titled "How I Overcame Lust" it consists of 18 ways that the author (Roy K.) overcame his lust.
To be clear The 18 Wheeler is not SA but tools that go along with SA and come from concepts within the 12-Steps.
If you are someone who really needs SA then The 18-Wheeler will be very limited in how much it can help you.
SA is working the 12-Steps with a sponsor; when done properly and thoroughly it can take months and even years to complete.
The Steps are never really complete and recovering addicts live with Steps 1,3,10,11 and12 for a lifetime.
SA also involves going to inperson meetings and participating in fellowship.
In person meetings are 1000 times more effective than posting on the GYE forum.
The purpose of this thread is 3 fold.
1) For those who need SA it is to farmiliarize them with SA concepts and into becoming more comfortable getting to their first meetings.
2) For those who do not need SA, many of the methods posted here can still be helpful getting out of our head and dealing with the lust issue.
3) For those already in SA this thread can serve as a spring board to discuss how we understand and apply SA principles.
All bolded words are from 12-Step literature and non-bolded writing are my own opinions and not necessarily consistant with SA priciples.
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07 May 2025 19:48
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vehkam
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@healingyid there are usually underlying reasons why a person develops a specific type of fetish. a sex addiction therapist is probably the best person to help you understand and deal with it.
in general eroticizing certain things or acts comes from a distorted understanding of healthy sexual attraction.
Until you have the resources to see a qualified sex addiction therapist, it may be helpful to you to try to learn as much as possible about healthy relationships and sexual attraction. This can be done by reading books on relationships and attraction that can be purchased on amazon and by connecting with the chevra on this site that have a clear understanding of healthy relationships.
i enjoyed "Hold me tight", "wired for dating" and "Eight Dates - essential conversations for a lifetime of love"
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06 May 2025 20:17
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שבע יפול צדיק וקם
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youknowwho wrote on 06 May 2025 18:05:
Welcome back!
Please forgive me for asking a silly question. And please forgive me for asking it punkt here, despite having seen the same concept elsewhere on the forum.
L'choirah, m'mah nafshach...oiff vee viet you are machshiv "cumulative count", than what is the chashivus of "day count"? And if there is "fort" a chiluk, than why mention it b'chlal? I would probably have over 7,000 cumulative days since I have engaged in this struggle, but l'mai nafka minah? It doesn't help me (stress on me, I acknowledge there may be another way of lookin' at this) because for the freaking majority of those thousands of days, I was a zombie addict with no real end in sight, whether I fell or not, or how often.
Now, regarding "day count", it's also pretty murky. Yes, it is nice to see higher streaks, but it can quickly lead to burnout if a guy is restarting every 3-7 days or whatever. On the other hand, "day count" can be a useful way of tracking inner progress, by showing us how we are implementing tools and inner change over longer periods of time.
End of Moldy Voldy's unsolicited and unhelpful ranting.
If cumulative count or any other type of count is somehow a motivator for you, please ignore me, I'm just an anonymous schmuck off the internet. 
I am not as much of a lamdan as you  , but here are my thoughts for my situation:
I struggle with P & M. No denying it. Still, that is only one part of my life and a small part I might add. When the struggle feels bigger and takes over my mental space, I struggle even more. I feel like there is no way out. The cumulative count is a way of helping me size down the struggle and, for me, it helps to boost my commitment/morale. It shows me that I have succeeded for that many days.
I wouldn't describe myself as a "zombie addict," but in those 1600 hundred days, I had struggles and I overcame them. Or I set up boundaries that prevented me from being triggered in the first place. The cumulative days attest to the fact that I can succeed. By the way, my goal is not to graduate or kill the yetzer hara. My goal is set up my life in such a way that I don't fall and I prevent myself from being triggered to fall. So, if some or many of those cumulative days were challenging, all the more significant that I was still able to overcome that day's struggle.
Regarding your day count comment re: burnout, I agree and that is why I took a break from being active on the forum. Still, I have updated my count throughout all these months. For me, it adds accountability. I am tracking my progress.
Unsolicited, yes. Unhelpful, I don't think so.
End of work day update: I successfully avoided time-wasting browsing today. No falls to report.
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06 May 2025 18:05
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youknowwho
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שבע יפול צדיק וקם wrote on 06 May 2025 13:11:
Hello, all.
My primary struggle is browsing time-wasting websites. Not that I am immune to urges, but after a few days since my last fall, I typically don't think about looking at P and doing M. Usually what happens is that I find myself on time-wasting websites and then after my defenses are down, I see one thing that leads to another that leads to another...
With Hashem's help, today, I hope to limit my computer use to intentional use only.
Great day to all.
Day Count: 1 Day
Cumulative Count: 1633 Days
Welcome back!
Please forgive me for asking a silly question. And please forgive me for asking it punkt here, despite having seen the same concept elsewhere on the forum.
L'choirah, m'mah nafshach...oiff vee viet you are machshiv "cumulative count", than what is the chashivus of "day count"? And if there is "fort" a chiluk, than why mention it b'chlal? I would probably have over 7,000 cumulative days since I have engaged in this struggle, but l'mai nafka minah? It doesn't help me (stress on me, I acknowledge there may be another way of lookin' at this) because for the freaking majority of those thousands of days, I was a zombie addict with no real end in sight, whether I fell or not, or how often.
Now, regarding "day count", it's also pretty murky. Yes, it is nice to see higher streaks, but it can quickly lead to burnout if a guy is restarting every 3-7 days or whatever. On the other hand, "day count" can be a useful way of tracking inner progress, by showing us how we are implementing tools and inner change over longer periods of time.
End of Moldy Voldy's unsolicited and unhelpful ranting.
If cumulative count or any other type of count is somehow a motivator for you, please ignore me, I'm just an anonymous schmuck off the internet.
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05 May 2025 17:56
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ilovehashem247
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I was looking over my first post, and it is interesting to see it from the future
Hello, Friends.
My name is iLoveHashem247. I am a married man with a supportive  Warning: Spoiler!and codependent = as sick as I was! wife and three wonderful kids. Looking at my life from an outsider's perspective, you'd think I have it all. I own a renovated home on my own private road with lots of land, run my own business with which i support myself Warning: Spoiler! It's a bit harder when you actually pay your vendors... but I'm still at it! , am fortunate to be able to learn many more hours a week than i work, Warning: Spoiler! that's over, now I have regular seder. The place I was learning at was a toxic and abusive cult, and it was absolutely the wrong time and place to be learning half a day. I am a father of four with a young family and a fledgling business. Now's not the time to chill. and am a popular and recognized member of my community Warning: Spoiler! um... yeah... so my former cult leader has been trying to run me out of town and attack me mentally and physically for about two years now... I was popular with him (and his peeps) so long as they were still sucking the money out of my veins. - and I'm not yet 30 years old. But all this comes with a price tag - a lifelong struggle with addiction, mostly with marijuana and risky sexual encounters. Warning: Spoiler! Being molested by multiple women from age 11 until 16 and a half and spending two decades trying to process the trauma by recreating it with girlfriends, prostitutes, and my wife and turning to toxic & sick religious leaders to "fix" me didn't help solve my issues.
I had girlfriends in high school before becoming BT, and had shmirat habrit challenges, like most teens Warning: Spoiler! I realize now that my issues were significantly more severe than the average teen. Normal healthy people don't do/crave what I did . I struggled with SB and engaging in sexual activities at massage parlors but was able to be clean Warning: Spoiler! for at least 6 months before marriage. during my wife's pregnancy with our second child, i unfortunately reverted back to my pre-BT habbit of recreational marijuana during the stress of a second pregnancy (the first one outside of the shana rishona "infatuation zone"), which in turn let down a rabbit hole of other issues... i had recently been visiting massage parlors, not for the sexual experience (i do not engage in any "happy endings" anymore, rather when i do succumb it is for the exhibitionism that i can indulge in without making a massive chillul Hashem). Warning: Spoiler! just another attempt to regain control when the unmanageability swells and becomes overwhelming. I didn't gie a crap about chilul Hashem, i was just embarrassed to get caught is all. calling a spade a spade I am also very disappointed to admit that i had a sexual encounter with a shiksa who picked up a business card i had left at a restaurant i ate in, she sent me lewd photos and we met up one time (sept 12, '22) where she performed oral sex on me. Warning: Spoiler! I've wondered how she knew - I think even when I was wearing a hat, jacket, and tie everywhere I went when in the depths of my cultishness, it was clear that I was damaged and searching for a fix.
I am struggling to break out of these addictive patterns - i have recently filtered my home office desktop, my work laptop, and my smartphone i use to run my business (main issue was watching movies and free "live cams"). Warning: Spoiler! got rid of smartphones, haven't owned one for about a year and a half. great move. The crazy thing is that I am a person who has made such amazing changes in my life - in many ways, I am the kind of person i look up to and always wanted to become - but it is the sticky residue of my past life that I'm having such a hard time getting rid of. Warning: Spoiler! it's called SEXUAL ABUSE TRAUMA
I am sick of who I've secretly become and the double life i am living. Warning: Spoiler! It was never such a secret. Everyone around me knew there was something wrong with me, but those who could actually help me (especially my mother) lived in denial that I had issues, therefore there's nothing to fix. Kid got raped at 11 and is too ashamed and feels to unsafe to share with parents? no problem, just assume he needs a higher dose of meds! If i recall correctly the peak was at least 72mg of ritalin-like drugs on the daily. I guess that's where i learned to just numb my bad feelings with drugs so that I don't need to feel them and thus deal with them.
I want to be fair to myself, honest and equitable with my wife, and and terrified of the shame i will face when standing before my Creator on my day of judgement. Warning: Spoiler! I was raped Warning: Spoiler!
Well, that was deeply revealing and I have revealed to you, fellow strangers, that which i have not even revealed to my wife. To be fair though, i have been fully open with her regarding the guarding of eyes and marijuana addictions, but have never ever discussed the massage parlor or infidelity. Warning: Spoiler! I was so deeply f'd up and still have a long way to go. At least my head is not fully in the sand now, but my eyes are still unblurring
HELP! Warning: Spoiler!
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05 May 2025 15:17
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chancyhk
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yankyneu wrote on 27 Apr 2025 06:02:
I don't struggle with porn usage on a daily basis. However I fall every couple of months. When I fall I can't get back up. Rath. Ir I stay in bed watching television. Other then when I fall, I don't watch television because I know it is below me. However after I fall and am already feeling low I can watch tv. This leads me to stay in bed the next 2-3 days just watching tv barely davening (including fully missing tefilos and krias shema). It seems that I also have a tv addiction. Eventually I have to get out of bed. Firstly, I want to know what people think about getting up after staying down from a fall for so long. Additionally, I want to hear some dvrei chizuk about how to stay away from television eventhough it may be clean.
Dear Yanky,
Its completly understandable that you stay in bed after falling.
You feel like a loser, you are very dissapointed in yourself, you are in a lot of pain because you feel like a rusha. So how can you get out of bed?
Of course you wanna disconnect and be in a fantasy world of TV. I was there many many times., It feels better that dealing with the real world. So understand yourself and give yourself compassion..
The trick to be real and honest,. So what if you fell? are you alive? Yes BH! Casn you do Tshuva? a billion percent yes!!! So why not do that? You can be fully honest with Hashem and tell Him how you feel, (He knows, but He wants you to talk to Him like a child) And tell Him everything, Ask for Help getting clean, and ask for help getting out of bed.
As long as you are alive you can fix what you broke. So rather than wallowing in your own filth, get clean and pure by doing tshuva!
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