04 Jun 2021 07:50
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wilnevergiveup
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cordnoy wrote on 07 Sep 2015 21:41:
Saw this:
There's an old Jack Benny bit where a mugger jumps out of the bushes and says, "Your money or your life." Benny just stands there doing nothing until the mugger gets irate and shouts, "I said, 'Your money or your life!'" Finally Benny snaps back, "I'm thinking. I'm thinking."
I am an addict. For me, giving up my addiction is like Jack Benny giving up his money. If you tell me, "Your object of desire or your life," my answer is, "I'm thinking. I'm thinking."
Let me explain to you what it means - to me - to be a recovering addict. Repeated experience has made it abundantly clear that I can either have everything I ever wanted out of life OR I can have the object of my desire. I can't have both. If I work my program of recovery, all my dreams come true. If I have one drink/bite/look, I turn my life into a living hell. But that's not what makes me an addict. What makes me an addict is that - for me - that's actually a tough call to make.
I suppose that since I am in recovery it means that, in the end, I keep deciding that my life is more important to me than my addiction. But that's not a decision that I arrive at without a great deal of daily deliberation. Whenever I am distressed - or sometimes even for no reason at all - I contemplate whether or not I should just at out and let all of the chips fall where they may. After indulging this perverse fantasy for a while, I ultimately decide that it's not a decision I'm prepared to make - not because I wouldn't like to, but because I can't live with the consequences. I know that I will just end up in so much pain that I will have to give up and - if I don't die or go insane first - go back to recovery again anyway. So I choose life. But it's not an instinctive choice. That's how messed up I am. Are you beginning to understand?
Reminds me of a story I once heard from a famous Rosh Yeshiva. He was once asked to visit someone who was ill. He was obese, had diabetes, heart conditions and loads of other stuff. His doctor told him that if he doesn't change his eating habits, he is going to die very soon.
He wasn't able to muster the strength to change anything. His wife called the Rosh Yeshiva to speak with him and perhaps talk some sense into him.
When the Rosh Yeshiva arrived he asked the man, don't you understand that if you continue eating like this you are not going to live much longer?
The man replied "Rabbi, you don't understand, I live for eating. If I can't eat, I'd rather die."
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04 Jun 2021 05:49
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EvedHashem1836
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Grant400 wrote on 03 Jun 2021 13:56:
truckguy wrote on 03 Jun 2021 11:06:
I have quite a strong filter but over the past few weeks have managed to get around it. Every time I fall I block that way but always seem to find another way around it. I think by now I have blocked all ways but i could always find more ways.
Not sure what to do, because I can't really block that category because it is normal websites (especially being vague so no-one gets any ideas). Also I'm married so don't want to do anything that my wife will realize if I block normal websites or send reports of internet usage to someone else etc.
Any advise would be appreciated.
Ok...so you are discovering what many of us discovered all too painfully. When all filters fail...it's time to start working on ourselves. We gotta learn how to say no. Obviously filters are important and definitely make it easier...but we must know that that's never enough...
The real work begins and ends with your ability to say "No!"
Agree 1000%
I personally dont have a filter (i have something very easily passable which completely blocks youtube on both phone and computer, and blocks Google on phone but thats it) and rely more on willpower. Not recommending this derech but point is at least for me personally if I was someich on a filter zero chance id be holding where I am now. The struggle isn't about perfecting your filter, rather its about bettering yourself. Even if u have a perfect filter but u keep struggling every day to try to bypass it you didn't really heal yourself your still addicted in my opinion. So you gotta work on yourself to break free
And you can do it. Because if you're here in the first place that already says you have enough motivation and drive to get it done
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03 Jun 2021 11:04
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cordnoy
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wilnevergiveup wrote on 03 Jun 2021 10:14:
cordnoy wrote on 07 Sep 2015 21:41:
Saw this:
There's an old Jack Benny bit where a mugger jumps out of the bushes and says, "Your money or your life." Benny just stands there doing nothing until the mugger gets irate and shouts, "I said, 'Your money or your life!'" Finally Benny snaps back, "I'm thinking. I'm thinking."
I am an addict. For me, giving up my addiction is like Jack Benny giving up his money. If you tell me, "Your object of desire or your life," my answer is, "I'm thinking. I'm thinking."
Let me explain to you what it means - to me - to be a recovering addict. Repeated experience has made it abundantly clear that I can either have everything I ever wanted out of life OR I can have the object of my desire. I can't have both. If I work my program of recovery, all my dreams come true. If I have one drink/bite/look, I turn my life into a living hell. But that's not what makes me an addict. What makes me an addict is that - for me - that's actually a tough call to make.
I suppose that since I am in recovery it means that, in the end, I keep deciding that my life is more important to me than my addiction. But that's not a decision that I arrive at without a great deal of daily deliberation. Whenever I am distressed - or sometimes even for no reason at all - I contemplate whether or not I should just at out and let all of the chips fall where they may. After indulging this perverse fantasy for a while, I ultimately decide that it's not a decision I'm prepared to make - not because I wouldn't like to, but because I can't live with the consequences. I know that I will just end up in so much pain that I will have to give up and - if I don't die or go insane first - go back to recovery again anyway. So I choose life. But it's not an instinctive choice. That's how messed up I am. Are you beginning to understand?
Why do I act out?
You know why I act out? I act out because it takes me away from "me." I don't like being "me." Not that I think I would be any happier being someone else, but I definitely don't like being "me." I like numbness. Mental numbness. My mind goes so fast. My brain won't shut up. The thoughts produce feelings faster than my puny heart can bear. My addiction takes care of that. Acting out quiets the "me" and the less "me" there is, the better I feel. When I am really good and drunk, I have these beautiful moments where, suddenly, it doesn't even hurt so much to be "me."
In recovery I have learned that I can get from my relationship with G-d everything that I ever wanted to get out of my addiction. When I give myself up to G-d, it doesn't hurt so much anymore to be "me."
I guess that's really why I stay sober. I know that I said earlier it's because I am afraid of the misery and insanity and death that my acting out would bring. But that's not the real reason. Misery and insanity and death just aren't big enough deterrents to keep an addict like me sober very long. They might be able to scare me straight for a while, but they're not enough to keep me sober day after day. No, the real reason I stay sober is because all I ever wanted from acting out I can get from my relationship with G-d.
And do you know what it was that I wanted out of acting out? Acting out promised that if I could just get rid of "me" long enough, then in that quiet, I would somehow finally be "me."
This is the truth that I've found ~ real life begins when you learn to love G-d with the very heart that loves to act out.
Oooooh, this ones powerful!
Goodness, who wrote that? Whoever it is doesn't really seem to like me too much.
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03 Jun 2021 10:14
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wilnevergiveup
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cordnoy wrote on 07 Sep 2015 21:41:
Saw this:
There's an old Jack Benny bit where a mugger jumps out of the bushes and says, "Your money or your life." Benny just stands there doing nothing until the mugger gets irate and shouts, "I said, 'Your money or your life!'" Finally Benny snaps back, "I'm thinking. I'm thinking."
I am an addict. For me, giving up my addiction is like Jack Benny giving up his money. If you tell me, "Your object of desire or your life," my answer is, "I'm thinking. I'm thinking."
Let me explain to you what it means - to me - to be a recovering addict. Repeated experience has made it abundantly clear that I can either have everything I ever wanted out of life OR I can have the object of my desire. I can't have both. If I work my program of recovery, all my dreams come true. If I have one drink/bite/look, I turn my life into a living hell. But that's not what makes me an addict. What makes me an addict is that - for me - that's actually a tough call to make.
I suppose that since I am in recovery it means that, in the end, I keep deciding that my life is more important to me than my addiction. But that's not a decision that I arrive at without a great deal of daily deliberation. Whenever I am distressed - or sometimes even for no reason at all - I contemplate whether or not I should just at out and let all of the chips fall where they may. After indulging this perverse fantasy for a while, I ultimately decide that it's not a decision I'm prepared to make - not because I wouldn't like to, but because I can't live with the consequences. I know that I will just end up in so much pain that I will have to give up and - if I don't die or go insane first - go back to recovery again anyway. So I choose life. But it's not an instinctive choice. That's how messed up I am. Are you beginning to understand?
Why do I act out?
You know why I act out? I act out because it takes me away from "me." I don't like being "me." Not that I think I would be any happier being someone else, but I definitely don't like being "me." I like numbness. Mental numbness. My mind goes so fast. My brain won't shut up. The thoughts produce feelings faster than my puny heart can bear. My addiction takes care of that. Acting out quiets the "me" and the less "me" there is, the better I feel. When I am really good and drunk, I have these beautiful moments where, suddenly, it doesn't even hurt so much to be "me."
In recovery I have learned that I can get from my relationship with G-d everything that I ever wanted to get out of my addiction. When I give myself up to G-d, it doesn't hurt so much anymore to be "me."
I guess that's really why I stay sober. I know that I said earlier it's because I am afraid of the misery and insanity and death that my acting out would bring. But that's not the real reason. Misery and insanity and death just aren't big enough deterrents to keep an addict like me sober very long. They might be able to scare me straight for a while, but they're not enough to keep me sober day after day. No, the real reason I stay sober is because all I ever wanted from acting out I can get from my relationship with G-d.
And do you know what it was that I wanted out of acting out? Acting out promised that if I could just get rid of "me" long enough, then in that quiet, I would somehow finally be "me."
This is the truth that I've found ~ real life begins when you learn to love G-d with the very heart that loves to act out.
Oooooh, this ones powerful!
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03 Jun 2021 02:36
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Hashem Help Me
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We tend to sometimes view the nisayon of looking as a monster and therefore need "methods" or "strategies" to conquer this monster. Lets get some facts straight. Masturbation causes endorphine secretions in the brain, so there is a chemical addictive side to it. Yet, you overcame that BH. It appears from what you wrote that your viewing issues are in the street; not technology related. High resolution pornography watching also causes chemical releases in the brain, yet you are BH free from that. So it's the good old fashioned and normal street yetzer hara? No chemicals there buddy. Fantasizing? Without any intense deep concentration, no major chemicals there either. So with the exception of heavy addicts, the advice is simple. Look away. Ignore. Look down. Choose the less busy street. Choose wiser times to go to the shopping district. Or choose to go to quieter stores - even if a drop more expensive. When attending a wedding, park yourself by the men and avoid unnecessary mingling moments. Summary - train yourself that you have the ability to simply not look.
Fantasizing is a little harder because it usually happens when we are falling asleep or spaced out. Its the subconscious at work. However once again, just stop. Simple. When you realize where you are heading - down the escape slide of fantasy with the erection etc, just pick up a book and start to read, or get busy, or call a friend. Just stop. You can b'ezras Hashem do just that.
I apologize to anyone that is having a challenging time and may find my comments minimizing their struggle. If anyone feels that way, please PM and i will give you my phone number to straighten it out. I apologize for any discomfort my comments may have on anyone.
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02 Jun 2021 20:03
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wilnevergiveup
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Here is the famous "Capitan Kirk" post from Dov. I must have read it 100 times and never really understood it properly. Just now, something clicked. I think you have to experience it (sharing with a real person) to really get it and that's when it finally clicked by me.
I really relate to the double life not just in my lusting but in my battle of self esteem and worthiness. People with low self esteem should be able to relate to this a lot. We have the real me, the one who no one is allowed to see and we have the fake me, the one I am willing to show to the world. When keeping up the fake me becomes to overwhelming, we are forced to face the "real me" and that can be very painful. This is because we developed ourselves into believing that the real me is not a life worth living.
Joining the two together is the only way to live normally and as Dov says, needs to happen by opening up to someone else. I am not quite there yet, but I can say that finding someone who I trust and can spill it all out to and be brutally honest about my struggles and shortcomings has so far been very powerful.
Here is Dov:
There was once an episode of Star Trek in which there was a time travel shtick, and the Kirk of the present, went 10 years into the past. Now, there was another Kirk then, too, right?
That was a big problem. The scientists told him that normally two of the same people cannot coexist. It just does not happen. But as this was an exception (it was a TV show and they were getting paid $15,000 per episode) as long as the old Kirk did not actually meet the present Kirk, all would be fine. However, if they actually met each other, the entire Time-Space Continuum would be 'ripped asunder' (chas veSholom). Under no circumstances could they be allowed to meet!
I do not remember what actually happened to Mr Shatner, but everything turned out OK for there were another few seasons of the show (and also we are all still here, no?). But my point is just this:
How does a frum guy get all drawn into his very private porn, admitting by his actions its awesome, sweet power for him, and privately have sex with himself (masturbate) with such intensity and imaginative pleasure and power? OK, so he has shame, self-loathing, and sadness afterward. But how does he do both tefillin, teaching Torah, being mekareiv and really davening for others hard and really crying for the churban, and really working on his middos....and masturbating himself with a fantasy that could only mean he (secretly) also worships the beauty and power of those naked shiksas and the act of sex? How does such a contradiction survive in him?
How does it survive in us?
My answer to myself is simple. We learn to lie a little. We lie to others and we lie to ourselves. We'll quit really soon. We won't do it any more when we are twenty....or fifty. Never on Shabbos. Never with masturbation. Etc. All lies, to ourselves. And over time, we learn to lie more and more without even noticing it, just as you cannot see yourself grow.
When we are being good, we feel good about ourselves and we wish we could forget the bad stuff we did last night - we call that a hirhur teshuvah. Really it is just so we do not hate ourselves so badly, but that's OK. We learn not to face it right now by pretending that we are 'forgiven' by Hashem. That way, one persona does not invade the other so much. It gets put off till the next time, if we are lucky.
When we are being 'bad', we wish we could forget how devoted we are to Hashem and His Torah and to our wives and children and to honesty with society - because it just feels so good to do the porn and we really see no way out of it. We know we need it and do not in a million years believe there is really an alternative for us, in the end. We end up 'ignoring' our kedusha during the act. That is lying to ourselves, and again, one persona does not see the other simultaneously. Pretending we are really rotten to the core is a much more comfortable way to act out. Nu. Who wants to hurt so much?
We walk about for years and are tortured inside, for we know the dichotomy we are hiding - we are the dichotomy. But we do not really know what to do. We fight to make one side gain mastery over the other and call that hisgabrus al hayeitzer. And we fall. Then we assume we are horrible Jews, and assume that Hashem agrees with us about that. That mistake is a hard one to shake...(see step 2)
So now about the time-travel dilemma.
When we open up to others under a username (or fake English name in a meeting) and share the entire truth (which most rarely do) about our addiction, we are still hiding our 'good' persona - the real me. It's OK to let them know the horrible dirt - yeah, all of it - as long as they do not know the 'good' persona too well. The two are just incompatible.
Thos who got caught by their wives or children know exactly what I am talking about. They understand why they getting caught was so effectivbe for a time - the desire to use the porn left them as a result of getting both personae dragged into the room at the same time. The horror of getting caught with my pants down by a co-worker, son, daughter, or wife is truly intolerable to anyone who has experienced it. Why?
Because the hypocrisy is mercilessly forced to come to a bitter end. The Time-Space Continuum has ripped asunder. We look frantically for a place to bury ourselves. It's hell.
It is the two Kirks being forced to see eachother by a third party - and only a party who knows both personae can possibly do that. Till that happens, we are all players. Lying a bit about the 'real us' to ourselves and to others.
Some of us insist on solving our problem without bringing the two personae together. Perhaps they are just avoiding the terribly painful end of their hypocrisy, perhaps not. I do not know what is best for another. But in my own case, I got caught, and it still didn't help. After a few weeks I was back at it and it got worse and worse until I couldn;t take it any more. i was begging for someone to rip off my cover and get me real! My wife could not do that, for she does not understand what I am talking about when I describe the desperation to get the sweet porn in my mind and heart and does not understand the allergy to it that I have.
So I needed real meetings - with real addicts. Perverts for decades who chose the path of sobriety because they had no choice. Just like me. People who can hear both sides of me. And I use my real name, wear my normal Jewish outfit, and talk with them freely about my real life.
And that flows out into being real with everybody else in my life, whether they know about my problem, or not.
And that is why so many of us are OK with goyim in meetings, but shrink into a corner when they meet a frum yid. There is a common strong desire to avoid and evade. And I do not blame them, for I had that, too. Here is a guy who can bring them even closer to the true full self! It's more pain to go through. But more healing, too.
Interestingly, I have seen newly recovering program-guys meet people from the meeting in public places just 'out of the blue' and totally ignore them, as if they didn't know them at all. Those guys did not remain sober. I think they may have been shocked by the cross-over from their 'meeting life' into their 'real life'. They were not willing to smile discreetly and say a polite "Hi" to the other guy. Instead, here was trouble - "so get away from me quick." Oy vavoi.
This is precisely why AA has a strong tradition of real anonymity. We do not reveal the identity of anyone else we meet in the rooms to non-members. Ever. But it's not about shame, at all. It's because sharing the secrets of others will not help their recovery at all! Only the truth that they want to share will help them.
Those who just get caught and stay clean out of fear of further humiliation never, ever stay better. Getting humiliated into sobriety does not work, until there is some humility added. Humilty (in hachno'oh to the truth) is the underpinning of the steps.
And that is why 'accountability groups' are nice but will ultimately fail, as long as they are based on avoiding shame - which they can easily become all about.
And that is why opening up to the wife (and remaining consistently open with her) is so very powerful - when done at the right time. It is powerful medicine for my recovery and powerful medicine for the marriage. Honesty there removes yet another layer of hiding from ourselves that has to go to the boards for true freedom.
Sharing my credit card number and address would not do any of these things for me, and neither would pulling up my pant-leg. It's not about compromising my security, nor my anonymity. It's not about getting hurt nor for the sake of being punished for all my wrongs until I can finally be good. This is not Teshuvah and it is not sigufim. It's all and only about being the real me with everyone that I can be, to the extent that I can be without violating the health of my family and others. We do the best we can in that, and ask Hashem to make it work right. And it works, period.
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02 Jun 2021 06:16
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wilnevergiveup
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Now for some learning; Torah and the 12 steps coming right up from the Beis Medrash of Harav Cordnoy Shlita. I was actually in the middle of putting something together based on Rav Dessler on the first step, and lo and behold, Cordnoy did it already.
It's good stuff.
It's the age old question with a 12 steps angle. Good reading for anyone interested in understanding bechira a little better especially how it related to us.
cordnoy wrote on 19 Sep 2014 17:23:
Lately, the topic has been about composin' a rhyme
but I'd like to switch to the 12 steps - one day at a time
ok....forget that (the rhymin' that is)
A new book is bein' published, and we have gotten hold of the rough draft of it.
from Rabbi tannenbaum.
firstly, he discusses the necessity and the purpose behind the 12 steps.
That is crucial stuff!
but then, he gets into the main topic: Are the steps against the Torah? Are they sourced in other religions? Are we veerin' from our tradition?
Here is the openin' question:
1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol -- that our lives had become unmanageable.
In this step, the Jew is asked to admit that he cannot stop his addiction on his own, and that his life has now become unmanageable as a result.
Certainly, admitting to one’s self a fault or shortcoming does not need a source. The idea of admitting that his shortcoming has caused his life to become chaotic also does not need a source.
The question that people ask on this step lies in the word “powerless”. This word seems to imply that the alcoholic or addicted Jew does not have free will to stop their maladaptive behavior-here, the Jewish AA critics scream “but this cannot be because Hashem gives every Jew free will, and the Ramban teaches that God does not give any Jew a test that he cannot pass!? Surely, then, Jewish addicted people can stop drinking or drugging at any time, and step one of AA is against the Torah?!”
By adding an exclamation mark and question mark at the end of the previous sentence, I attempted to convey to you the excitement and bewilderment that the AA critics usually show on their facial expressions when asking this question.
dd wrote on 21 Sep 2014 03:24:
Cordnoy i have a question on this matter,
Why is powerless against the idea of bechirah b'chlal?
The whole idea of powerless doesn't mean its not possible to over come. It means i'm powerless of doing it on my own. I myself can't overcome the addiction. But with help from hashem and the other steps i could. This is something we see in chazal too. אלמלא הקב"ה עוזרו אינו יכול לו. Many times in chazal and in the seforim hakdoshim we see the idea that a person can do nothing on his own even good or bad.
In the deeper seforim like R' Tzodak Z"l sfas emes etc we see that even the good we do we aren't really doing.
Maybe i'm missing something if you could please explain.
Thanks Avraham!!!!
cordnoy wrote on 21 Sep 2014 06:30:
Well, I wasn't gonna go out of order, but once DD asked his question and mentioned this Gemora, I will skip to a later portion where R"T quotes R"T:
We cannot complete this discussion without bringing Rabbi Twerski’s favorite Gemara on the topic. Rabbi Twerski is fond of quoting the Gemara (source-see Kiddushin 30b) which says “the evil inclination of man becomes stronger than him each day and tries to kill him…and if God did not intervene and help out, there would be no way for the man to overcome it [the evil inclination]”. The Maharsha and Iyun Yakov explain that this Gemara is actually referring to a righteous person who truly wants to do the right thing, and nonetheless, the evil inclination is so powerful that it is actually impossible to overcome him without Hashem’s aid (source-see Maharsha and Iyun Yakov in Kidushin 30b). So what is this Gemara teaching us? That even people who have free will and truly want to choose good are powerless! Understand the chidush of this Gemara because it is a great chidush! Is there any better source for “powerlessness” than this?! I suppose that is why Rabbi Twerski is so fond of it.
This powerlessness over the evil inclination is certainly true of the wicked people who have no strong desire to overcome their evil inclination. This is supported by several other chazals, vian kan makom liha’arich.
Continuation:
Once we are discussing ways to qualify “free will”, it is fitting to tell you what R’ Eliyahu Dessler famously says about it; this also sheds light on step one and closely resembles the idea laid down by R’ Volbe.
R’ Dessler coined a concept called “Nekudas HaBechira”, which means that a person always has a choice in every situation of temptation, but what exactly is the nature of a person’s “free will” will depend on the individual at that time, and with those circumstances; the nature of his free will may even change every day of his life.
According to R’ Dessler, free will is when a person’s level of truth meets face to face with his level of sheker, thereby creating doubt. In this place of doubt, where one can choose either way, we say that he has free will. Of course, it must be a situation where the person’s nature plays no role on choosing one way or another, because if so, then this again is not considered “free will”.
If I am correct, this teaching of R’ Dessler seems to mirror the words of R’ Volbe above.
As we continue on:
R’ Dessler gives several clear examples to illustrate his point-a Rosh Yeshiva will never take a gun and murder people in a shopping mall when he is angry. Therefore, in regards to murder he has no free will to murder. Similarly, an angry, disgruntled neurotic man with a loaded assault rifle in his car trunk will have no free will not to murder people after being laid off from his job. In either case, their nature will motivate them to kill or not kill.
Free will exists only be in a case where either the neurotic man or Rosh Yeshiva has a doubt about what to do, and choose one way or another.
R’ Dessler continues to explain that as a person does teshuva, his level of free will moves up. Conversely, when a person sins, his point of free will moves down.
See R’ Dessler in Michtav Me’Eliyahu, volume one, p. 10, p. 113, and volume 4 p. 95.
In either of the two extreme cases where a person does total evil or total good, they will also lose their free will entirely, and be subject to the whim of their evil or holy nature, and their free will is taken away (See Tanya chapter 17 who discusses this at length, and the Ba’al Shem Tov in Kesser Sheim Tov 152 who mentions this in passing).
cordnoy wrote on 23 Sep 2014 15:45:
Just to support this idea even further, the Ramchal (source-see Mesilas Yisharim, chapter two, end) says “it is obvious that even if a person supervises his conduct, it is not within his power to overcome the evil inclination without the aid of Hashem”.
This idea is so transparent in the Torah that the Ramchal said it is “obvious”; it is therefore truly astounding how ignorant AA critics make an empty fuss over the world powerlessness in step one! It is astounding that they err about something so “obvious”!
cordnoy wrote on 23 Sep 2014 21:04:
Conclusion about step one
Conclusion: We have seen from R’ Avigdor Miller that it is possible to lose free will in one area, while still having free will in other areas of behavior. We also saw from R’ Volbe, R’ Dessler, R’ Miller, and R’ Nachman that although every Jew has some sort of choice, he may not have choice over his behavior. The only choice he may have is to learn how to choose better than the way he is choosing right now, by joining AA, talking to a Rebbi, or in other ways. We also saw from R’ Volbe that some Jews never even learned how to choose in the first place, and they are held responsible for not learning how to have free will, but they still have no free will over their actual actions at the end of the day, making it correct to say that they are “powerless” to stop. Finally, we saw from the Gemara in Kidushin 30b that even Tzadikim who have free will and want to choose good are still powerless to the overwhelming power of their evil inclination. So to wrap it up:
a) Some people don’t have free will
b) Even the people that do have free will are still powerless to the yetzer hara without Hashem’s assistance, and this is true even about Tzadikim, and certainly about Rishaim
There you have it, the Cordnoy discourse on free will and the first step.
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31 May 2021 05:14
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wilnevergiveup
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cordnoy wrote on 15 Sep 2014 17:42:
Football is a game played by men
Gotta run, hit da ground and get up again
Preparation durin' the week is a definite must
and so it is with recovery from lust.
Gotta shvitz, gotta train, muscles to build
Otherwise, you gonna get killed
Guys on the other side can be pretty tough
Scrownin' and growlin' their looks pretty gruff
If you ain't prepared and you're just skin and bone
Da coach (memories) will bench you - you'll be sittin' alone
you go on that field with a sly silly smile
Cornerback will kick you - for at least half a mile
And so it is when we wake up each morn
And that desire hits - I wanna watch porn
Are you prepared? Did you work on the steps?
Or were you preoccupied with women and sex?
The ultimate goal is to score a touchdown
But a cheerleader, a mascot or a silly clown
Won't get you those points if youre in the band
Playin' the game with the ball in your hand
Yippee I, yippee o; Go team go!
Silly jumpin' jacks - performin' a show
Makes you feel good - bit it takes no courage
Unless you join the big boys on the line of scrimmage.
It may be a sport, but it ain't for no patsies
No style points awarded - unlike the Grammies
All men are welcome to don the uniform and helmet
Work hard and get ready - you won't get the hatchet.
While the ultimate prize is one hundred yards
It's a large playin' field - must always be on guard
Can't do it all at once with a heave and a bomb
Do it methodically - must remain calm
Several yards at a time - over and over
Focused and vigilant - cant afford a turnover
Accumulate first downs - your opponent gets weary
Every ounce of confidence - it begins to get scary
Again and again - you knock him to the grass dirt
he's left starin' at the sky - flat on his bloodied & hurt
Not sure on the nimshal, but one thing's certainly known
To score points - you gotta get outta your comfort zone.
If you keep at what's easy - it'll be good for a while
But eventually you'll return to your old lifestyle
Try somethin' new - that you won't necessarily like
for otherwise, you will have that same old psych
Lust that's inside of us - it wants the big fix
"Connect with me; make me whole" - we were true addicts
Reality driven inward - the connection was magic
the remorse and emptiness - the cycle was tragic
End on a high note - the super bowl shuffle
One can get there - if his feathers he does ruffle
And yet, the focus gotta remain on the play that's ahead
and that decision is really a "life or death"
b'hatzlachah
Warning: Spoiler!
The ultimate prize is winning the Super Bowl!
How do you do that?
By getting to the Super Bowl.
How do you do that?
By winning your playoff games.
How do you do that?
By getting to the playoffs.
How do you do that?
By winning your division (or wild card).
How do you do that?
By winning games.
How do you do that?
By winning today's game.
How do you do that?
By scoring more points than your opponent.
How do you do that?
By scoring right now (td, fg, etc.)
How do you do that?
By putting together a drive.
How do you do that?
By getting first downs.
How do you do that?
By converting this first down.
How do you do that?
By gaining positive yards....this very play.
It's all about this moment! Not the play before; not the play after this one.
This second...focus on making a positive play!
[Let the coach/God worry about the next play and the one afterwards; that's not your job!]
I would love to dissect this one but I don't have the patience right now. So much wisdom in this one, just start readn' and you'll see.
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30 May 2021 17:25
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grateful4life
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JacobsLadder wrote on 30 May 2021 14:18:
I am so very grateful that I found this site.
I never imagined i had a ‘problem’ or an addiction but it’s obvious that my animal instincts keep taking over.
The first 17 years of my life were lived in Judaism and our culture , praying daily and keeping our holidays. Then I moved out at the age of 17 and experienced new things and got caught up in ego driven desires and one woman after the other. Carnal desires, lust, going after married or attached women. Strippers , porn, parties. ( thankfully no drugs ) My relationships were always based on sex first. I loved this way for almost 30 years. And no Jewish women.
Then things changed. Over time I wanted to be better but I kept falling victim to the memories in my mind of those acts of desire and would repeat them with sometime else or through porn.
It seemed like it was taking over my life. Like unless I had a porn star like woman then it was a waste. It was all ego. Before I knew it the years passed and here I am , never married and only a long history to show for it. And not great history.
In February of 2020 I seriously undertook a path to come back, be better. Prayers, study and growth. It felt good. Slowly getting there. Then my father fell ill and he passed away 6 months later. It was then that I got a lot more serious about my changes. My parents had put us in a highly religious school when we were young so to fall off the way I did was dishonourable to him and my mother. I wanted to be the man they wanted us to be and honour him especially in this first year of his passing.
Being a person who used to watched porn or set up sexual activities several times a week I had gone a couple of times of two months straight of no desire or activities, good clean living and Torah studies. But once in awhile my other side and memories would take over. And I would fall.
And the shame would take over. I want to be better especially in this first year of my fathers passing. I do well. Then my mind takes over sometimes. Granted , nowhere near as often as in the past but still, more often recently. I try to justify to myself that I’m not doing anything that bad. I’m alone. Single. And this prevents me from doing something worse like actually being with another woman just for sex.
This is my struggle. I can have it, get it but ever since I’ve worked on being in a better path and reconnecting to Hashem it has been a challenge to find a good Jewish woman for me. What’s terrible is that Hashem had brought several good Jewish women in my life over the last few years but I was still looking only for sex and porn. Now that I am seriously committed to being better it has been a struggle to find someone. I am guessing this is my challenge now. I was given opportunities and blew it. Now I have to go through my tests to find that one person I am guessing that will save me somehow. Even though it is my duty to save myself.
Almost daily my thoughts creep in. Visions. Desires. And at the most inappropriate times ! Sometimes while I am praying. Makes me feel like a complete creep.
I feel like all these many years of living like life was all about the flesh is constantly there trying to pull me back.
sorry for the long post. I just needed to vent.
Thank you everyone.
Jack
Thank you Jack for your vulnerable share. Your courage to share on this forum is to be commended! There is a way out of the madness and seemingly insurmountable obstacles that I and countless others have experienced. For starters, keep coming back and continue searching for recovery. It's a process that will heal you over time. Feel free to DM me anytime to discuss further.
Best wishes,
G4L
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30 May 2021 14:18
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JacobsLadder
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I am so very grateful that I found this site.
I never imagined i had a ‘problem’ or an addiction but it’s obvious that my animal instincts keep taking over.
The first 17 years of my life were lived in Judaism and our culture , praying daily and keeping our holidays. Then I moved out at the age of 17 and experienced new things and got caught up in ego driven desires and one woman after the other. Carnal desires, lust, going after married or attached women. Strippers , porn, parties. ( thankfully no drugs ) My relationships were always based on sex first. I loved this way for almost 30 years. And no Jewish women.
Then things changed. Over time I wanted to be better but I kept falling victim to the memories in my mind of those acts of desire and would repeat them with sometime else or through porn.
It seemed like it was taking over my life. Like unless I had a porn star like woman then it was a waste. It was all ego. Before I knew it the years passed and here I am , never married and only a long history to show for it. And not great history.
In February of 2020 I seriously undertook a path to come back, be better. Prayers, study and growth. It felt good. Slowly getting there. Then my father fell ill and he passed away 6 months later. It was then that I got a lot more serious about my changes. My parents had put us in a highly religious school when we were young so to fall off the way I did was dishonourable to him and my mother. I wanted to be the man they wanted us to be and honour him especially in this first year of his passing.
Being a person who used to watched porn or set up sexual activities several times a week I had gone a couple of times of two months straight of no desire or activities, good clean living and Torah studies. But once in awhile my other side and memories would take over. And I would fall.
And the shame would take over. I want to be better especially in this first year of my fathers passing. I do well. Then my mind takes over sometimes. Granted , nowhere near as often as in the past but still, more often recently. I try to justify to myself that I’m not doing anything that bad. I’m alone. Single. And this prevents me from doing something worse like actually being with another woman just for sex.
This is my struggle. I can have it, get it but ever since I’ve worked on being in a better path and reconnecting to Hashem it has been a challenge to find a good Jewish woman for me. What’s terrible is that Hashem had brought several good Jewish women in my life over the last few years but I was still looking only for sex and porn. Now that I am seriously committed to being better it has been a struggle to find someone. I am guessing this is my challenge now. I was given opportunities and blew it. Now I have to go through my tests to find that one person I am guessing that will save me somehow. Even though it is my duty to save myself.
Almost daily my thoughts creep in. Visions. Desires. And at the most inappropriate times ! Sometimes while I am praying. Makes me feel like a complete creep.
I feel like all these many years of living like life was all about the flesh is constantly there trying to pull me back.
sorry for the long post. I just needed to vent.
Thank you everyone.
Jack
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30 May 2021 11:32
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wilnevergiveup
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cordnoy wrote on 28 May 2021 15:18:
Started out slowly, but then took off B"H!
- Blue book - Dr's letter, loss of power of choice to drink, lust; there is a solution
- White book - H.A.L.T.; addictive process - is our drug of choice "friend" or "foe"?
- Action book - HW - I concede that I am completely incapable of handlin' lust, as manifested etc.
- RAJT - One episode of physical abuse is once too many; denial will not make anythin' go away.
Godspeed to all!
This last line is not just for abuse, it applies to anything and everything (except for people, and even then...) including lust. If anything ignoring things allows for them to grow.
You mentioned this, but I thought it deserves a honorable mention.
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29 May 2021 20:13
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wilnevergiveup
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This one really resonates.
cordnoy wrote on 11 Aug 2014 19:05:
Due to several emails and conversations and threads, i was thinkin' about startin' a new thread for this upcomin' topic, but decided against it.
Consider here a thread titled: I am just Curious about.......I am not Lustin'
This mornin'.... I was curious about.....
....how the woman in her joggin' suit looked in the rain
....how my wife looked as she was gettin' dressed
....how the singer singin' on the radio 'on and on and on and on' appears on youtube
....how the camp counselor walks in her slinky long skirt
....a different singer - if she ever sang in her birthday suit
Now, each of these thoughts lasted less than 3 seconds (Skep...is that ok?), and only one of the five did I actually attempt to actualize.
That lead to my conclusion.....I was only curious....I wasn't lustin'.
Ha! Malarkey to the tenth degree!
[Ed. note: to be fair to Skep - even though I was jokin'....Skep means (I think) that if one simply notices a woman and his notice lasts less than three seconds - that is simply the way us men are wired, and one should not take stock of that; one should not klap al cheit and go to Arizal's mikvah and do the 40 kachalim - that is ok (certainly for the non-addict, whomever that may be); if he looks more, he is lustin'. Additionally, if one turns to look at a sight he would find pleasure in - even if it is less than three seconds - that also constitutes lustin'.]
This is me to the T. I go onto Youtube (no access anymore but if I would I would probably do the same today) just to check out something, then, just checking out the trailer of the series I used to be into. Then, just doing a search of one of the actors, then, just curious what that one looks like in a bikini....
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29 May 2021 19:38
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wilnevergiveup
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This is my spot for reposting some of the posts that really speak to me and maybe comment on them as well . Feel free to read along, or if you have no interest, you can move along on your merry way.
I would love to say that I have been able to implement everything that I have learned here into my life, but that is not the case.
Either way, here goes.
AlexEliezer wrote on 27 Aug 2013 22:27:
cordnoy wrote:
so what do you suggest?
no walkin the streets?
takin glasses off?
no computer?
I suggest you do whatever it takes to keep this monster starved.
I hold that looking at women is the single most powerful fuel that keeps this addiction going. (The other is entertaining fantasies). Conversely, vigilantly guarding our eyes is the most powerful tool in our hands to overcome it.
...My very sanity is being threatened if I take in her image. The only way I know is to avoid it. If I look because it's still habit to take a first look, I BOUNCE my eyes off her in an instant. This has become a learned reflex. If I look long enough to enjoy her, or even discern her features, that's way too long. I haven't done it in 4-1/2 years, and coincidentally, have been sober the same time.
Stop listening to your addict.
Commit fully and live!
I found this post, as well as most of his other posts very powerful.
This fight is not about the numbers and the charts. It's not about streaks and promises. It's about starving lust to death (I love that line). It's about being honest and really living without lust, really changing and not just getting by.
I'm not there yet, not even close.
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29 May 2021 16:51
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Eli117
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Hi,
I’m in my mid 20s, currently suffering from this type of addiction and sin. Tried to stop multiple times in the past but it was quite impossible to do so.
It took a significant hit on my career which I am still struggling with nowadays. Physiological and psychological effects have been rampant and it has put me into depression, anxiety and maybe even more. Occasionally I am taking prescription meds to overcome the depression, that’s how low you can go with that.
Seems that some do it all the time, ofc it’s a sin which is punishable by the eternity of Gehinnom, but most people suffer even in this world right now on all possible dimensions, I am one of them.
Let’s say that my career was almost over, practically speaking - no social life, gained weight like 50 % and I have got comorbidities.
Tehillim, Torah has kept me from overdoing it like I did in the past, but still it is too much, and my goal is to be set free, to be the person I dreamed to be when I was a teen, to do Teshuvah and return to the right path- then help other people overcome it.
I am looking forward for some serious attempts with the help of GYE to end it, to move forward.
I hope others will overcome it too.
bless,
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28 May 2021 15:18
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cordnoy
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Started out slowly, but then took off B"H!
- Blue book - Dr's letter, loss of power of choice to drink, lust; there is a solution
- White book - H.A.L.T.; addictive process - is our drug of choice "friend" or "foe"?
- Action book - HW - I concede that I am completely incapable of handlin' lust, as manifested etc.
- RAJT - One episode of physical abuse is once too many; denial will not make anythin' go away.
Godspeed to all!
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