EscapeArtist wrote on 03 Mar 2019 04:40:

It was encouraging to read this positive perspective. Right now I'm not feeling it, even though I'm going to my first meeting one of these days. Maybe it will change after that.

true_self wrote on 24 Jul 2023 12:07:

Thinking about you, my friend. 

You know, I think it wouldn't be a stretch to apply to internet use  that adage of Chazal "משביעו רעב, מרעיבו שבע". Using internet less is incredibly liberating! When I had online access on my phone I felt it was a "ball and chain" I was carrying around, schlepping me down, chafing at my skin, exhausting me. 

But - I feel that being on GYE each day is worth it. Going on even just for a check-in and to connect with friends is a game-changer. It's a way to keep focus and aligned with priorities, keep aware of vulnerabilities and strengths, all at the same time. I have been keeping a Kabla to go on the site only once per day, to keep my secret online life from getting out of hand. (I had to pay a knas one time, when I went back on to write a Maareh Makom )  

Keep on moving forward!

I've been making an effort to fix "this," whatever it is, from the foundation. 

Not just addictions nd toxic behaviors. 

I've been doing things like calling manufacturers to discuss problems with items I purchased instead of reordering and returning the defective item (that's called return Fraud). Turns out that I end up getting to keep the item and the money without the guilty feelings! 

An example is with an expensive item i purchased on amazon. the item got a bit damaged during use and i was unable to use it to its full capacity. Instead of buying a second item, then shipping back the defective one on the new order for a refund, i contacted the manufacturer for a potential warranty replacement (which is the honest thing to do). 

They agreed to replace it and since they didn't have the same one as my original order in stock, they sent me the higher-end version which costs over $1000 more! 

So by not lying and cheating, I WON in the end! 

I am slowly rolling out these principles and behaviors in my life and I'm seeing that good things happen when you do good things. 

I've just been so used to the cheating way of life that it became an ingrained habit! 

...bnɘɿt ɘʜt ϱniƨɿɘvɘЯ

Hey!

It certainly is a welcome back to GYE as you were absent from the site but not from our hearts, you never left our hearts.

I’m happy to hear that you are fighting addiction in any way it may be. Keep it up, keep fighting, the more we fight the better we become.

I’m sorry to hear about your falls, it is definitely sad and a letdown, but we can’t let that get in the way. We got to focus on the good and continue with life. In your case focusing on the first two weeks over the third week.

It takes tremendous strength what you are doing, keep doing what you think is the right thing for you. keep fight, never give up, focus on the good. You’ll succeed!

Thanks Chaim!
Welcome back to GYE is not the welcome back I was wishing for.... but welcome back to the great friends here like you is what I need!
In the past GYE became an addiction for me and that's why I left for 2 weeks, which than ended up being over 3 week due to vacation, I'm glad to share that the first 2 weeks were a complete different world for me, I was rarely on the internet (and when I did it was together with my wife) the results were unimaginable and most importantly I discovered that it is actually possible!!!
However the sad news is, that in the 3rd week if fell 3 days sequentially, I found a new loophole on my phone.... I was planning on blocking internet connection on it but was pushing it off....
I'm going through tough days, but staying strong and not giving up. Hashem keeps on testing me, I guess he believes that I can do it! so I will.
All the best!

The Ohr Hchayim is a critical point in this struggle.
A similar point is made by various Meforshim explaining how the saintly soldiers in the Milchemes Mitzva become INCAPABLE of resisting the lure of the Yifas Toar, although they were on an incredibly high level and had never previously sinned, and the reason is because they were in the battlefield and NEEDED to LOOK and see her.  From there comes the inevitable fall. 

I’m not sure that this proves the point that the heroic and unpronounceable warrior write in his post- that having this problem is necessarily and inherently an addiction, though…. 

Thought for the day:



Let yourself call this entire experience what it is: ADDICTION. You want to stop but haven't succeeded despite years of trying. It's ruining your life. What's that called: Addiction. No more qualifications needed. And, IT'S OKAY TO RECOGNIZE YOU HAVE AN ADDICTION.



We don't only tell heroin addicts to muster their will power and "beat the yetzer hara". That approach works for almost no heroin addicts. Rather, we tell them they have a disease called addiction and direct them to highly qualified clinicians for recovery with proven tools that help addicts of all substance types break free.



Of course there is a yetzer hara for arayos. Of course Judaism and halacha are true. Of course all these things are still a serious aveirah even though you are addicted to it. Of course you still are liable for your actions even as an addict. But it's also a disease called addiction and you need to recognize this fact in order to win long-term and change yourself.



I will tell you from first-hand experience that that realizing this is an addiction was the turning point in my success. Don't be ashamed to admit you are addicted. It might just help you break free for good.

Never Ever Again1 wrote on 20 Jul 2023 14:58:

Very important thought! Many of us (including me) can strongly relate to this thought. 
While reading this I was reminded of another post that was written yesterday:
"Contrary to what some people believe that people who have struggles in this area have a lack in Yiras Shamayim I challenge this misconception. I believe that many if not all of us have much more Yiras Shamayim than the average Yid. We have a struggle that some others never had. Some of us had addictions and felt powerless over our struggles and others without addictions also felt powerless, notwithstanding our tremendous desire to be good."

-

You're asking "what can I do to keep this THOUGHT in my head?"
First make sure it leads to charata healthy guilt & regret, as opposed to yiush: shame & despair.

The Nesivos Shalom writes in Parshas Noach, the guilty feelings we have are a gift from Hashem that come from the inherent good inside every Jew. Indeed, he writes, a Jew who does not have these feelings anymore, no longer has much hope.

A person who gives in to the Yetzer Hara only because the Yetzer hara has tempted him strongly and he can't hold back, is still not "bad' in essence. With sincere Teshuvah, Hashem will forgive him. But if one doesn't feel guilt anymore, that means that the bad has taken him over totally and there is little hope.

The Nesivos Shalom ends by saying that “guilt” is actually a Tikkun for every Jew to be able to break free of the bad. Even when one falls, they should make sure that the fall does not become part of their essence. By continuing to hold on to Hashem and feeling guilty when we are far from Him, then even in the case of the worst sins chas veshalom, we still have hope and will be forgiven.

There’s a simple test we can do to know whether we are being motivated by healthy guilt/regret or by shame/despair. If we see that we want to get right back up and find ways to strengthen ourselves again, then it’s a sign that our “bad” feelings are those of healthy guilt and positive regret. If, however, we feel that we just want to give up, then it’s a sure sign that we are experiencing despair and shame, and we must quickly find a way out of these harmful feelings before they lead us to a vicious cycle of continued falls.

I B"H have children and grandchildren and I have been struggling since the age of 6 in what evolved to M. I called out for help from my Menahel in Yeshiva and a few Rabbanim over the years but none of them were able to suggest an adequate solution. Originally GYE wasn't around yet and when it was around they probably weren't educated enough about GYE. In any case, it has been a terrible struggle for all these years. I tried every piece of guidance I ever heard about but I was overpowered and never succeeded, although I never gave up.

Somebody asked me a few weeks ago what my take was about such issues, not because he had them but because he had to address the issue since it has gone public in the streets with people promoting improper behavior. I did a google search and came across GYE. I have seen advertisements before but I thought that GYE was to help people decide to get proper filters. I was unaware of how powerful GYE is and that they address things like M. I cry because of the question of where have I been for all these years. I signed up to GYE and I am in the middle of the F2F program. I read a lot on the forum and I decided that it is time to post my story. I haven't tried to reach 90 days before but knowing my struggles and what I've been through I decided to get a head start and post.

I look up to all of you and am proud to join the GYE forum. Contrary to what some people believe that people who have struggles in this area have a lack in Yiras Shamayim I challenge this misconception. I believe that many if not all of us have much more Yiras Shamayim than the average Yid. We have a struggle that some others never had. Some of us had addictions and felt powerless over our struggles and others without addictions also felt powerless, notwithstanding our tremendous desire to be good. Without GYE it can be almost impossible for some people to transform their behavior and even with GYE it can be a long process. My challenge might be for life and I am grateful for GYE and for all the members who take the courage to post on GYE. 

jacksmith wrote on 16 Jun 2023 03:28:

fascinating story, waiting to hear more:)

chaimoigen wrote on 19 Jul 2023 14:04:

Hashem Help Me wrote on 19 Jul 2023 04:55:

This masterpiece is pure Chinnuch, deep understanding, true Ahavas Yisroel.
Most of all - it can help us to help others.
I wish I had talked to someone who understood all this a long time ago. Maybe there's someone out there I know, today, who should not have to wait any longer. Can be in a big way or a small way. But we each can make a bigger difference than we sometimes know. 

The following post was originally placed on a balei batim (married guys only) thread named Gardener of Grodno. It was requested to be made available for everyone, so with a few adaptations here it is:



Part One - A guy reaches out for help with masturbation. In my understanding, a fellow who puts shame and embarrassment on the side because he wants to break free is to be complimented and built up. He should feel that his bruchim habaim welcome was sincere and will encourage him to stay in touch. This fellow definitely deserves honorable titles. He is walking upstream against the tsunami of filth that the decadent society around us produces. One of the great American roshei yeshiva, from the main talmidim of Rav Aharon Kotler zatzal, told me that despite his rarely going out on the street (his yeshiva was very close to his house), "the toxic air of the street comes into his sforim shtub." (exact quote). So if even such a yid felt affected, what do we want from our youth? The triggers to fantasize and masturbate are simply all over the place. So if a guy says NO! I want out of this matzav, he is to placed on a pedestal. And again, not only does our new chaver want to be clean, he is even willing to speak to strangers about a very embarrassing behavior. Does Hashem have nachas from his courageous post/phone call/meeting? Does anyone think not?



Step one in dealing with such a fellow is to make him aware of the facts. In many cases we are dealing with a guy in the yeshiva system - be it american, yeshivish, chassidish, chabad, modern orthodox, sephardic. Therefore i will stick to this scenario, but obviously if the facts are different, the conversation can be adjusted accordingly. He needs to be reminded that he is a good guy who davens, learns, says krias shma, does kibud av v'eim, shmiras halashon, Shabbos, kashrus, gemilas chessed, lulav, sukkah, matzah, shatnez, tzitzis, tefillin, etc. etc. None of that is erased because he has a masturbation struggle.



In addition, most people i have spoken with, upon being questioned if anyone at any point openly discussed the issur of hotza'as zera l'vatala answered that no, nobody ever really explained that there is a siman in Shulchan Aruch about this. If anything they heard about this geshmake feeling of release from a friend and experimented... Although they felt "dirty" and sort of knew something was wrong, the whole thing was very blurry. By the time they came to a level of maturity and da'as and clarity about the issur, they were hooked, and definitely not willing to speak about it. At that point anxiety, depression, desperation, and immeasurable guilt set in - ironically being the trigger to masturbate even more. For the record, most boys seem to also have not been told that they may wake up wet - lack of that preparation can cause a bochur to freak out, and then start "experimenting"..



So looking at the picture objectively, we have a guy with a filled out "chart in shomayim" of mitzvos, with the exception of an aveira that began basically b'onais, and continues compulsively (also b'onais) as a bad habit (or in some cases as addiction).



Nowadays, in many cases, pornography is also part of the equation. Boys are often exposed at very tender ages. Let's speak that through as well. A child growing up in our society is BH being raised in a safe and basically predictable matzav. The adults in his life usually are good people. Parents, rebbis, teachers, custodians, the mailman, police officers, grocery store owners are all part of a pleasant picture perfect world. All these adults give off a message to become a mentch, a ben Torah, a baal midos, to be tznius, etc. Evil? That's in Russia, Iran - far away..  And then this child (and for this context i would include up to age 16 as a child) is exposed to hardcore pornography - sights and sounds that he can't wrap his hands around. He is not witnessing love scenes (and that would be bad enough). He is seeing grotesque evil looking behaviors with adults paid to smile as they engage in these unloving erotic and very not tznius activities. He is confused and traumatized by what he has seen. Subconsciously he starts to wonder "Is this what my parents do? Does my shul rabbi do this? My rebbi?" Well guess what - being that there has been no opening of the lines of communication with those individuals, the boy is not going to ask them about what he saw - letting his imagination create bedroom scenes about those very adults who constantly preach to him about midos tovos, tznius, modesty, kedusha, etc. And as we know regarding trauma, one returns to the abuser for more doses of that abuse - in this case they return to pornography. So their inexorable pull to shmutz comes from two opposite directions - 1. Trauma, and 2. To cause a really geshmak ejaculation. A strange shidduch.....The fact is the level of bechira this bochur has at this moment is quite low.



If one takes the time to patiently explain this to a bochur, and answer his questions, you will actually witness the return of some degree of menuchas hanefesh to this fellow. "You really mean i am not a rasha? Hashem doesn't hate me? I am allowed to daven? There is hope for me? It is not as much my fault as i have been thinking?" In addition it is very important to share that this is a very common issue. To some degree or another there are many wonderful guys struggling. Do not deny the fact that there are BH guys that never started masturbating. And there is no need to claim any specific percentage of how many guys are acting out - whatever it is, it's a lot of guys - good normal guys - with choshuve last names as well. Similarly, we are not giving the green light to continue masturbating; we are just giving perspective. The goal is to help him stop - the way to get there is to put him at ease with the truth.



Part Two - Once the guy is a bit calmer, it is time to clarify some facts. Most important fact - There is no room for yi'ush - one can b'ezras Hashem get better. The belief that one must ejaculate is false. Much has been written about this and debated on the forums - too much to write out comprehensively right now. The fact is there are single guys who BH stopped completely and are clean for hundreds of days. Some of them have been a great source of chizuk for beginners by making themselves available to speak. Others have simply graduated, moved on, and put the whole thing behind them. There are also guys who so far have been unable to stop completely, but have minimized the frequency tremendously. Loads of guys have gone from being "masturbators" - meaning masturbation was part of their daily ritual or their sole "go to" to deal with stress, boredom, loneliness, rejection, and now they are "clean" - they have learned healthy ways to pacify themselves, yet for whatever reason they still masturbate on rare occasions, maybe once every few months. They have also learned that a fall does not have to become a disaster. In the past a fall after a few days clean meant acting out with a vengeance numerous times to "get every last drop out". Now it means getting up after the initial fall, reaching out for chizuk, and moving on after one masturbation episode. And that is also called getting better! imagine coming to Yom Kippur and telling Hashem "Last year i masturbated hundreds of times - i am not even sure how much; but this year i only masturbated six or maybe seven times". 



I have found that a reward system - a small monetary prize for staying clean - tailor made for the guy's needs is very beneficial. Together with a daily or almost daily accountability phone call/text, the success rate is BH very high. Sometimes such a system is necessary for a few months. Besides the goal setting, the ability to be in contact with a mentor is invaluable. Advice, a shoulder to cry on, chizuk, a bop on the head, whatever is necessary is available. It should be set up in a non obsessive way - a bochur should be living his own life - be it yeshiva, working, vacation, or whatever - he doesn't need you as his new spouse, and he shouldn't be focusing on this so much. His daily feeling of self worth should be coming from the "meat and potatoes" of his day - his learning - his job - his general shmiras hamitzvos, not hyper-focused on this issue. At the same time let him feel comfortable when an urge hits to reach out and have you help him bust it. Just do not become codependent. 



As far as how to help bust urges, GYE provides many great strategies. I have my own but they are not so conventional, and therefore will not appear on this post.



Obviously for all of this to work, access to pornography must be cut off completely. With rare exception, one cannot stop masturbating while still viewing arousing material. And besides, pornography is assur and highly toxic in and of itself.  Filters, kosher phones, contracts regarding device usage must all be put in place for all the above to work. A healthy conversation about what sexuality is and is not, what real sex and intimacy look like as opposed to what is seen on the screen, as well as detailing what happens when rach"l a wife catches a husband watching pornography are all major motivators to seriously kasher one's viewing habits. I find that when a guy hears that as far as a woman is concerned - watching pornography is basically the same as having sex with a prostitute, they start to realize the pain and trauma they will cause a future spouse. And guys really are good. They want to be good, they want to be close to Hashem, they want to do mitzvos and not do aveiros. They have been blinded by the pornography industry, along with feeling unable to live without the constant arousal and thrill. When you turn on the light of truth and they start to understand how hurt their wife will be, it is a game changer.



This is a summary of what we can share with a bochur who is struggling. I think the original question was "What can we expect from him?" The answer - nothing - just help him develop his own answer. It will be much better than where he is now. And he is great for trying.

EccentricComposer wrote on 17 Jul 2023 13:39:

You, my special eccentric friend, have hit the nail on the head. What we do here is not merely about behavioral modification, or just battling lust and addiction, and/or negative patterns. It's about growing together in the foundational aspect of who we are. Yesod is the foundation of who we are as Yidden, as people, as a whole Adam Hashaleim, standing in front of the Rebono Shel Olam, experiencing His Avoda and Chaim. 
Keep growing ! You are building the foundations of the special Bayis you are establishing. 
And we are rooting for you to keep going MiChayil El Choyil!

Kaboom! You, my friend, are Back, Badder and Better than ever!!

I can't live without coffee. It's a med, caffeine is an addictive chemical, and I need it. As a tool.
If every hand is a winner and every hand is a loser, I am going to utilize every tool I have to hit that ball over the fence, over the stands of adoring fans, and into the parking lot (and damage a Tesla). 

You can too, brother. Rock on!