nuts nuts nuts... ALL OF U. ich kenn nisht mer!!!!!!!!!!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
keep on trucking, u made my day

a very interesting converstation between pentinant and REBBEREBER=DOV

i added breaks to make this readable


penitent wrote on 31 Dec 2009 04:56:

I read a lot of the white paper re:SA. I do see myself in that and relate it to my own experiences.
I do have a problem though with understanding all this "lust" etc.
Maybe I look at myself and my relationship with my wife... I have all these thoughts in my head.... part of me wants to break down and cry, as so many times before.

The gemara in Yoma 74: says in the name of R' Zeira "Tov mar'eh aynayim mehalach nafesh.. Tov mar'eh aynayim b'isha, yoter m'gufah shel ma'aseh" To look is always better than the actual deed.

It's the musings we conjure up in our minds that is exciting. It's intersting to note that scientifically, the sympathetic system is responsible for arousal, erection, while the parasympathetic system-which calms us down- is responsible for ejaculation.
I always thought that the final Zing would be carried out by the system that is responsible for an excitatory response. In reality, you could say it's all over when that time arrives. Am I too deep? Anyone have any clue what I'm saying? Do I???

My original question is that chazal recognize human nature. To call it lust and label it a problem i.e. say I have a disease and to give me a cure seems extreme. Maybe I am in denial. See what I mean by thoughts in my head?

Did chazal call that lust? maybe. but they stress controlling the yetzer. There is a book called Cheshbon Hanefesh which was written 150 years before Pavlov dogs, which really targets behavior modification. I recommend it highly. Chazal may tell us of Gedarim we should set but it's another thing to put it into practice.

REBBEREBER=DOV answwers in not -so-dovish


quote=dov" link=topic=763.msg40619#msg40619 date=1262284223]
Dear Penitent -
Yes, it is clear that the different nervous systems work that way, as I have shared with some people out of my own experience. I'll PM you something about that issue specifically.

I love you. Period. So, please consider taking what I will share with you the way it is meant - not at all as criticism - only as a sharing of my experience with you. Besides, as "imtrying25" will tell you, I haven't had a rant in a while, so it's about time....

You ask about SA's use of the term "Lust". You are bringing up chazals to understand the term, rather than using examples from your own personal experience with your own problem. I'm all for chazal, but if we  are trying to uncover what is really going on within us, it would seem that being honest with ourselves is far more important than what a sefer says.

If folks say this borders on apikorsus, then my response to them is that I'll gladly choose honesty in gehinom over dishonesty in Gan eden, any day. Why? Because the only thing that saved me from my personal gehinom in addiction - and it was gehinom (I need no chazal or sefer to tell me that) - was honesty. And in my case, I needed a chevra and a sponsor to help me do that. I found that in SA.

Besides, chazal tell us that this world is an olam hafuch - those who are high here are are low there. To me that includes us when our frumkeit that is external - only in our brains, like Eisav's big head. Trust me, when we inject some shameless personal honesty into the mix, Torah becomes incredibly more powerful as a force in our lives. V'anavim yirshu aretz. The one's who seem low on the outside, are really high. Kapeesh?
 
On the other hand, being frummer did me no good, it was doomed to forever be a half-measure because - after all - I was the one defining and enacting the "frumkeit". It seems that you are in the same boat, otherwise why are you here?  ;D

Do you get what I mean?

What do chazal mean when they tell us: "Derech Eretz Kodmah L'Torah"? To me, this is exactly what they are talking about.

Don't look to the Torah to save you when you are insane. How can you expect to succeed while you'll be the one applying and measuring it? The basis of all frumkeit is personal responsibility.

Darf zeyn a mentch, ershtence.

The yidden at Har Sinai had to be healed before they could accept the Torah, right? Yidden need to have some basic mental health - specifically self-honesty - to use Torah successfully as instructions for living.
Otherwise it's known, but not applied - hey! kind of like in our case, right? The GYE-er: a frum yid who just can't "get frum" in this area...drives us nuts, doesn't it?

In fact, a total shoteh is totally patur from the mitzvos. We in addiction are not true shotim, only full of "ruach" shtus. We are not p'turim, but seem doomed to fail at it. This insanity is clearly discussed in all 12 step literature. If you want to talk about it more, I'll gladly share my insanity with you (that sounds funny, doesn't it?).

So, I ask you (as chazal put it): how can a "chavush be matir himself from the beis ha'asurim"? Chazal inform us that he can't. And who is more of a chavush than an addict? No one, to me. Isn't the self-application of Torah exactly what all of us do for years and years until we make enough of a mess of things that we finally reach out for help, as you are?
Keep reaching for help. It's here.

Now, maybe we can talk about lust a bit.....
 
[/quote]

ok now the truckdriver rebbe of woodford and bardstown kentucky come in to ekplain in plain english what REBBE REB BER=DOV is sayin

take it away bards....


Pentinent

I am a talmid of the RebbeRebBer=DOV
Although I never spent a day in his yeshivah

There is a language called Dovish

You need to learn Dovish to "chapp"
DOV

I used to fight rebberebdov
Why cause I was so "macho" I was armed to the teeth with
Chazal
Courage
Resolve
Humor
A mouth like a trucker

I was convinced DOV was a crazy robot apikoress

Pentinent
Let's make cheshbon hanefesh together

When we were in the thick of our taava
Didn't we know all these chazals
Didn't we have the courage
Didn't we have all the machoness that a loser (sic) that dov is missing

And and and
We still had no control

If anything we used some chazal(I did) to boost our YH

Hello who is the apikores
Me and my chazal or dov and his 12 steps

Hey I am not a 12 stepper

But we need to learn from dov

As long as "I" fight the YH
"I" is in big trouble

When I surrender
I don't know ginoi(exactly) how dov taitches  surrender but bardichev thinks it means when we remove the "zhich" the stoopid monkey in the middle GAAVA
From the equation

I am again not a 12 stepper

But what DOV says is when a man is clearly not a bar sechel we cannot use sichliyos first he must be a man

Yes we can become a man again thru Torah
By realizing that we are so helpless witout HKB"H

Coming from a non-12 guy

All dov is teaching us is what is pshat in the gemara "ilmalai HKB"H ozroi lo yachal loi"

Hashem doesnot need our helP we need his and we need a lot of it

I know I write a lot of jokes on the forum . I do it to cheer myself up and to cheer up people like DOV and everyone else .Simcha is my key weapon and DOV uses it
If u look in the ohr hachaim in ekev he says a lot of what I say here

I have a posotive spin that it is never too late to start living
I call it
Keep on trucking!!

Jump on my truck!!

DOV comes here too (sources say)

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Bards

Momo when the high is over this is when we need baby steps the most. So keep on trucking but only at snails pace. Youll get there, youll see!!

MOMO WE ALL LOVE YOU!!!

Pentinent

I am a talmid of the RebbeRebBer=DOV
Although I never spent a day in his yeshivah

There is a language called Dovish

You need to learn Dovish to "chapp"
DOV

I used to fight rebberebdov
Why cause I was so "macho" I was armed to the teeth with
Chazal
Courage
Resolve
Humor
A mouth like a trucker

I was convinced DOV was a crazy robot apikoress

Pentinent
Let's make cheshbon hanefesh together

When we were in the thick of our taava
Didn't we know all these chazals
Didn't we have the courage
Didn't we have all the machoness that a loser (sic) that dov is missing

And and and
We still had no control

If anything we used some chazal(I did) to boost our YH

Hello who is the apikores
Me and my chazal or dov and his 12 steps

Hey I am not a 12 stepper

But we need to learn from dov

As long as "I" fight the YH
"I" is in big trouble

When I surrender
I don't know ginoi(exactly) how dov taitches  surrender but bardichev thinks it means when we remove the "zhich" the stoopid monkey in the middle GAAVA
From the equation

I am again not a 12 stepper

But what DOV says is when a man is clearly not a bar sechel we cannot use sichliyos first he must be a man

Yes we can become a man again thru Torah
By realizing that we are so helpless witout HKB"H

Coming from a non-12 guy

All dov is teaching us is what is pshat in the gemara "ilmalai HKB"H ozroi lo yachal loi"

Hashem doesnot need our helP we need his and we need a lot of it

I know I write a lot of jokes on the forum . I do it to cheer myself up and to cheer up people like DOV and everyone else .Simcha is my key weapon and DOV uses it
If u look in the ohr hachaim in ekev he says a lot of what I say here

I have a posotive spin that it is never too late to start living
I call it
Keep on trucking!!

Jump on my truck!!

DOV comes here too (sources say)

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Bards 

Our best gift to you is that you will speak with people just like u and u will remain totally anonymous.

Resolve to stay here as long as you can

Post away

Welcome

Soryy that u are being welcomed by the two least serious people on the forum

Me and rage

But you are in good hands

Keep on trucking

GEVALDIGGGGGGG

Bards

Hey Risk you sound like your doing really good. I love your attitude. It will take you far. And the line about not making it routine is sooooooooooooo true. Lately a couple of guys who have a pretty strong streak going are having hard days. I think it has to do with this. letting things get routine. So keep on trucking.

bardichev wrote on 03 Jan 2010 18:57:

Confession time: I read the whole megilla seriously while I was on the phone with a friend. (not really a nice thing to do, yeah, yeah, I know - wait!)
Then I get up to the woodford on the rocks eitzo and laoughed out loud.
My friend says to me: "What did I say?"
I was embarrassed and had to admit the lack of attention.
Now I'm not laughing any more.
I need more.
"b" is like an addiction!

AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Keep on trucking help613. And if youve got bardy on your thread your really lucky. loads and loads of good can come from that. So tamshich trukkin.

PART OF KEEP ON TRUCKING MEANS

THE KOLLEL GUY IS ALSO NOT NOGAYA

AS MUCH AS I WOULD LOVE TO HELP HIM

I NEED TO KEEP THIS BIG RIG RUNNING SMOOTHLY

I GOTTA KEEP ON TRUCKING

IN THE PAST  I FOUND OTHER PEOPLES

"SHVACHKITE/ADDICTION" WAS A HUGE TRIGGER

HEY I LOVE YOU MR KOLLEL WHATEVER

BUT.. I GOTTA KEEP ON TRUCKING

IF HE EVR JOINS THE FORUM

THE FIRST GLEZEL WOODFORD HE WILL GET FROM BARDICHEV

TILL THEN

KEEP ON TRUCKING!!!!!!!!!

hello kutan we need to do this together

driving solo only gets us back into yenensville with all the goats

maybe listen to rebbereber=Dov and dont look if it's easy or hard

when You are in the drivers seat

it is easy/hard/hard easy

etc.

when you are buttil imivittel to the greater rootzin hashem

there are no difficulties

it is a GESHMAKKE journey

cmon enjoy the ride with uncle bards

dont worry we will make rebbereber=Dov laugh a bissel too!

KEEP ON TRUCKING!!!





AS I WAS ABOUT TO POST ISAW A SHTIKK GAONUS
FROM ANOTHER GUY IN THE TRUCK HE IS A GESHMAKKE YID FROM YERUSHALAYIM

ERR HAYST  אים טריינג כ''ה''


HIS POINT IS HERE ON THE KEEP ON TRUCKING  TRUCK

WE FEEL AS LONG AS WE ARE IN THE GAME WE ARE GOOD

NO MATTER IF ITS EASY OR HARD

"its not nogaya"

LIMASHEL .. YOU ARE GOING TO A CHASSUNAH AND YOU GET VERY TRIGGERRED FOR WHAT EVR REASON

AND THERE ARE MANY WAYS YOU CAN REACT

DIHAYNUUU WOW SHE IS GORGEOUS..UCHH I JUST KILLED MY SHAVAVIM..WHY DO WOMEN DRESS LIKE THIS.. UCHH AM I STILL 15 AND NEED THIS FOR MYSELF.. HEH HEH THESE DAYS THE WOMEN GET AWAY WITH ALOT... STOP LOOKING ..OK ONE LAST PEEK TO MAKE SURE..

HELLO KUTAN YOU WILL DRIVE YOURSELF MISHIGGEH

JUST SAY KEEP ON TRUCKING

I DONT CARE WHO IN GEHENNOMS NAME SH IS OR WHO OR WHAT SHE IS MARRIED TO IT IS NOT NOGAYA

KEEP ON TRUCKING!!!

GO TO THE BAR

ASK FOR WOODFORD ON THE ROCKS

THE BARTENDER WILL GIVE YOU A WINK ...LIKE OH YOU ARE FROM GUE

LCHAIM CHAPP A TENTZIL

KEEP ON TRUCKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Keep on rocking dude. And although you dont still have the "high" its through the lows that we show our true colors. So keep on trucking.

Sci what a post. Ive seen this so many times before. By myself and by friends as well. As soon as we start getting comfortable he sends a message, chill out dude, take things slow. Its like the famous story of the rabbit and the turtle. We have to realize that this is one step at a time , ALWAYS. we can never get away from that.

But i am truly amazed at your way of dealing with it. Its one more reason to be thankful to HAshem for your wonderfl wife. And the lesson youve learnt and how you took it as a positve are absolutly beautifel. Keep up the great work!! Keep on trucking!! We are all so happy for you. Not so much because you didnt fall, but rather because you are starting to have a whole different mindset. And that is the true purpose behind the 90 days.

Wow!

Keep on trucking! It sounds like oyu held on and fought back as long as you needed to - and you succeeded!

Double Wow!

KOLLEL GUY

Listen up!

Don't worry so much about shovavim

All the guidelines of FELL SHMELL and KEEP ON TRUCKING apply in these weeks too

Yes a streak is geshmak

But I wouldn't trade in "one day at a time" for anything

Start your engines,gentlemen!

B

פרשת  ויחי

chazk chazk vnischazek!!!!!!!!!

OK WE FINISH SEFER BERERAISHIS

YAY!!!!!!!!

BUT.. BUT.. SEFER BERAISHIS FINISHES ON A SOUR NOTE

YOSEF HATZADDIKS DEATH

THE BEGGINING OF THE SLAVERY

SO WHY ALL THE JOY !!!!

ZUGT BARDICHEV AZOI...

YES YOSEFS DEATH

YES YOSEFS COFFIN IN PLACED IN THE NILE RIVER

BUT.. BUT.. THIS AINT THE END OF THE STORY

THIS VERY COFFIN OF YOSEF WILL BE THE CATALYST FOR THE GEULAH

KRIAS YAM SUF! CROSSING THE YARDEN!! PAKOD YIFKOD!!

SO WHAT WE CAN LEARN FROM HERE

EVERY SEEMINGLY BAD,SAD ,TRAGIC SITUATION

OR EVEN PERSONAL DEFEATS ,A SLIP A FALL, SHIDUCHIM ,PARNASSAH ETC..

SAY TO YOURSELF

IT AINT OVER YET

DONT STOP READING HERE

IF ONE WILL NOT CONTINUE INTO SHEMOS

THIS IS AVERY SAD STORY

BUT WE DO WE NEED TO  BE MISCHAZEK AND GO "VAYTER"

VAYTER= KEEP ON TRUCKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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GOOD SHABBOS

ברדיטשעב