PART OF KEEP ON TRUCKING MEANS

THE KOLLEL GUY IS ALSO NOT NOGAYA

AS MUCH AS I WOULD LOVE TO HELP HIM

I NEED TO KEEP THIS BIG RIG RUNNING SMOOTHLY

I GOTTA KEEP ON TRUCKING

IN THE PAST  I FOUND OTHER PEOPLES

"SHVACHKITE/ADDICTION" WAS A HUGE TRIGGER

HEY I LOVE YOU MR KOLLEL WHATEVER

BUT.. I GOTTA KEEP ON TRUCKING

IF HE EVR JOINS THE FORUM

THE FIRST GLEZEL WOODFORD HE WILL GET FROM BARDICHEV

TILL THEN

KEEP ON TRUCKING!!!!!!!!!

A REQUEST:
Can we all use the term "Kollel Person" instead from now on...

OoooooPs

So sorrrry

The woodford is still nikkur from shabbos

Sorry hic
Lchaim

KollelGuy u r gevaldigggggggg

Keep on trucking help613. And if youve got bardy on your thread your really lucky. loads and loads of good can come from that. So tamshich trukkin.

Help613, it's obvious that a lot of Kedusha is hidden in your soul... It needs to find the proper expression, and we hope that through therapy/SA you will learn to be a new person.

I loved Rage's post on Torah vs. Working, and I also loved everyone's responses! They are both right, of course. It's all about balance.

There's a story in Tana Dibei Eliyahu about a fisher-man who told Eliyahu that he is simply not cut-out for learning. Eliyahu asked him to explain how he catches fish and he launched into a long and detailed explanation on how to make the nets and the art of catching the fish, etc... Said Eliyahu to him, you see that you are capable of mastering a complex art/job when you WANT TO.

In other words, every yid is cut out for learning, but he has to WANT TO. That's number 1.

Number 2, we can always find things that we enjoy learning more than Gemara and Tosfos... For example, maybe you joy more just plain Bekiyus, without the pilpul of Tosfos and Rishonim... Or perhaps you enjoy Halacha more, or even Medrash and Agadeta? Every Yid has a chelek in Torah.

And number 3, like someone mentioned here, we need to let go of the lust before the Torah can enter us properly. Torah is like water, it takes the shape of the vessel it is in. If the vessel is crooked, well... don't expect Torah to save you. The beauty is Torah is far more subtle than the over-powering desires of our physical senses. If we are enslaved to them, there's no chance that the subtle but beautiful melody of Torah will be heard.

See this page for many great Torah ideas...

Like Guard, and lots of others said, try different types of learning. I know that I got a HUGE boost when I started actually finishing mesechtos. I started with smaller ones, and got bigger. It helps keep me going. Plus, it's an excuse for a big party at the end - which, truth be told, finishing a big chunk of torah deserves!

And you may find, as you do more bekius, that you become puzzled by something and want to find out more - and you can spend more time doing that piece in depth!

So do a little mishnayos, a little halacha, some bekius. See what works for you.

Keep in mind also, though - if you're only 19, I really first started learning well at your age - and I only started feeling true success a couple of years later. Obviously, everyone needs to work on whatever's good for them - but just because you haven't seen success yet, doesn't mean you won't.

As far as the thing that you were forced to see - you were put into that situation, and you test now is what you'll do - and you're succeeding! You closed it, and now you're doing you best to move on. You rock!

silentbattle wrote on 03 Jan 2010 17:09:


I've heard many choshuv Rabbanim criticize the system (i.e. long term Kollel for everyone) off the record.  Also, when one very well known Askan was asked (again, off the record, but I overheard the conversation) why the Roshei Yeshiva in a certain community don't speak out and say that this lifestyle is not for everyone, his response was shocking: "The Kanaim would kill them."

Rage being that your so well versed in Rambam perhaps this one slipped your mind. I cant write hebrew so ill just give you the place. Its the last rambam in hilchos shmitta veyovel Perek 13 halacha 13. Check it out. Like i said before lets not be so closeminded. Just like you want me to be open to your way, which btw i am, be open to our way too. Not saying we are right or anything like that. Just that you gotta see things in a different light sometimes.

so i don't know what that rambam says, but check out rage's post on his thread...

imtrying25 wrote on 04 Jan 2010 15:53:


No one who's learning in Kollel and uses his time well needs to be on the defensive.  I think Rage was making a different point: That someone who works for a living has nothing to apologize for.  ZERO.  I agree.  

If someone demands support, he's apparently not all that confident in the Rambam's promise.

Kedusha wrote on 04 Jan 2010 16:00:
If you  notice my last line i agree to this too. Although i do think rage is taking it a step further than what your saying.

Rage ATM wrote on 04 Jan 2010 16:06:
trust me Rage i know this much to well. And if that what you meant i couldnt agree with you more. And what you wrote before about leeches is true as well. BUT there are many out there that are really trying hard and are not trying to live up to certain standards. They are mistapik bemu'at to the true sense of the word. I need not go further i see this by my own siblings.

imtrying25 wrote on 04 Jan 2010 16:10:


Well, he's making another important point as well.  Long term Kollel shouldn't be done on someone else's Cheshbon.  There's something wrong with a system where girls in the Kehila with the most people in Kollel cannot even get dates because their fathers have no money.

Rage ATM wrote on 04 Jan 2010 16:11:
why not may i ask? Dont we need leaders for the future?? Torah leaders?? Yes we need alot of things but we need this too. Yes i agree there alot of guys out there "learning" that arent doing s*** but dont burn the system because of , ill even say, alot of rotten apples. Because that would be closeminded. And that can be done to any system. If you look really good youll find there are alot of rotten apples in almost all systems!