Sorry this post has been on my computer ~ a week and only got to send it off now...
Rav Simcha Bunim of Preshischo writes on the posuk we say in the halelukas: Harofei l'shvurei leiv...", that "He heals those peiople who have broken hearts". He asks "what's sick about a broken heart?! Isn't a broken heart one of the most precious gifts He can give a yid? For a broken heart does not mean "a sad person," at all! As anyone who has ever had one knows, a truly broken heart is a beautiful, precious thing and not sad - but tremendously liberating and great - like anyone who has ever cried at the levaya of a tzaddik knows, it it painful but beautiful at the same time. For there is this feeling that we are 'working right'. Feeling genuine pain over this, is exactly right, and just what Hashem wants. It washes us, and we know it.

But writes R' SimchaBunim, sometimes the person - for we are just human - gets caught up in the sadness, and he becomes depressed. That is a terrible obstacle to avodas Hashem. So the posuk says Harofei lishvurei leiv - umechabeish l'atzvosam. It's not really the broken heart than needs healing - it is the atzvus that frequently follows it that needs Hashem to heal it. And that may be why it does not say in the reisha of the posuk, harofei l'shivron leiv...

There is at least one sweet yid on this forum who believes that accepting failure is a bad idea. That it is the prescription to permanent failure and depression. Gevalt.

A broken heart is precious, and powerful in its innocence. And acceptance of limitations when they are real is part of growing up for everyone, certainly for addicts.

In fact, my wife and children discovered a better husband and father from the day I started truly working my 2nd step and accepted the shocking extent of my dependence on others; worked my 4th step and accepted the facts about my own selfishness and motivations. Far from making me bitter and weak - acceptance of the truth put me on the same page with G-d. For He surely knows the truth and has always accepted me with all my warts! And He wants to help me get better! Wow. Not because I am pretty...unlike me, who in my addiction tend to actually measure the chashivus of women based on things like their prettiness or breast size...gevalt, how different I am from my G-d!

So, I just want to ask you, Joel: When you really started to accept the facts of the powerlessness and limitations that Hashem has given you in the areas you mentioned, do you find yourself liking yourself less - or more?

Thanks

Hi Gevurah. I just realized I never thanked you for dropping in. "Droppin in" is different than a fall, btw. I left a note for you on your thread. Thanks.

H"s Soldier--You got it. I need to be davened for. I thank you and thank you. When I daven for one of the guys, it helps me.

dov wrote on 05 Sep 2012 21:11:


Yeah, yeah, Tanya, too. Halevi what I'm dealing should only be a broken heart. What I'm dealing with is a stone heart--no comparison. My heart of stone is from arrogance, from refusing to be helped. Crazy paradox: "I won't and you can't make me" followed by, "Abba, Abbah, please kavannah me". This is core addiction thinking--I'll do IT, and then I'll pour my heart out in shame and remorse...until next time.

And the cure for the broken heart is to break it, so we can call out to Him genuinely. The problem is that normal people can break their hearts of stone by insight about selfishness, remembering the pain they caused others, etc.. Doesn't work for an addict. For an addict, in addict mode, the only breaking of the heart I know is to really get down and dirty enough, disgusting dirty enough, so that I can then pour my heart out to Him with all that delicious drama. There I cannot go.

Depression. I can't tell. Because when I'm depressed, I don't usually think I'm depressed until one of my kids or the Rebbetzn tells me. But I know that sick feeling of beating myself up after a fall, and yh or no yh, I deny authorship of that feeling. So I am definitely not depressed. Herst!

I can't weep honestly from a broken heart, and I can't break my own heart, at least not without a lot of drama and narcissism that inevitably leads to toiletville. I am left asking Him to crush my heart for me, but not to where I die. Because if He will only crush me a little, just enough so He can let a little of Himself in again, then I can sing His praises, and bless Him, and ask His help. For what good would it be if I get wiped out and go to Gehinom. Will the ashes sing His praises?

"There is at least one sweet yid on this forum who believes that accepting failure is a bad idea. That it is the prescription to permanent failure and depression. Gevalt.". ???

"So, I just want to ask you, Joel: When you really started to accept the facts of the powerlessness and limitations that Hashem has given you in the areas you mentioned, do you find yourself liking yourself less - or more?"

Answer: Less. Definitely Less. And I am NOT depressed. The fact that I feel stony and flat, like I have no purpose and am only counting the days until.....is the evidence of anything BUT depression. I am, once again, powerless. As a point of view, mind you, not as to some particular task.

Thanking you truly, without any residual sarcasm, for your ruthless honesty, and the guys can say what you will, I don't find you harsh. Straight. but not Harsh.

And yet you say straight - and remain as sweet as sugar. Continued growth and hatzlocha, good strong health and simple sobriety this new...day.

Here's a link I found that talks about my joylessness problem and the solutions

www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/88828/jewish/Chapter-9-Getting-Beyond-the-I.htm />
Thanks Dov

Staying depressed in order to punish the people who made me depressed, to sustain resentment by using my suffering as a weapon is a strategy for life that makes joyfulness impossible.

Joyfulness is a mitzvah.

Would I rather get even than do a mitzvah? While the answer seems obvious, in subtle and not so subtle ways I find myself preferring to spend my time sulking and suffering, than calling a friend, leyning, going for a walk, posting on gye, etc.

Abbah, I could use a hand here. This suffering/depressed thing is getting really old. But I can't lick it. I'll keep trying for a while, and if you can hang around for a while, I'll remember to ask you to make me joyful.

Why don't you try reading Feeling Good. I think there is little debate that cognitive therapy is effective against depression. You can still believe you are powerless if you want, but at least you'll be glad you are alive. Your thoughts create your feelings. If you learn the skills required to effectively argue with yourself you wll be able to view situations objectively, and this should lift your depression. You'll have fun too, the book is full of humor about some very serious issues.

Dear Yoel (or was it Joel, I forgot, sorry)

One question: Though you have certainly been carried over a lot of obstacles in the past year, and have made wonderful, uncomfortable and healthy decisions of late....how lonely do you remain?

In other words, are you reinforcing your loneliness somehow?

Pain makes some people think they are depressed, simply because they are sad. Because pain sucks. And that's normal and good. So....what next?

Hey Nederman, I was practicing psychotherapy for ten years when Beck published Psychotherapy of Depression. Just doesn't work for me. Good for lots of stuff and lots of people. Doesn't work for my addiction. I really truly am powerless. You don't understand. That's not a thought. It's a fact.

Hi Dov. Yep, I'm lonely, way down deep. I miss my G-d up close and personal. I miss my ex wife who just died. I miss being able to be there physically with my daughter who is struggling with mental problems so badly right now. The shidduch didn't work out. and though I make sure I stay active every day with people in meaningful ways and don't pretend about this bummer I'm in, it really does boil down to that I have to deal with this pain all by myself. You got it. Bullseye. and Thanks. I'm doing lots of stuff to work at this: meeting with psychiatrist, therapist, day lamp, Abbot and Costello meet Frankenstein, and leyning on everything I can find about Joy as a mitzvah, my favorite of which is a little book called Trembling with Joy. When I talk with Him He tells me to be patient and that I'm doing fine. Nu. You don't argue with that. You just keep on keeping on.

I appreciate you so much. Thanks for weighing in.

Gmar and easy fast budski.

Yoel/Joel no matter

Yoel, I wish I knew how to say the right things...


We are each of us all alone, in our own way. Yet we are not really alone, because we have Tatti. And that makes us all brothers.


Have a Gmar Chasima Tova and an easy and meaningful fast.


Keep on keeping on. I'll be thinking of you.


Gevura!

1daat wrote on 25 Sep 2012 06:28:


You may be right, especially if you yourself are a successful cognitive therapist (but something tells me that you are a different kind of therapist.) However I do not advocate reading about cognitive therapy because I believe that addiction is depression, clearly it's not. But the ideas are the same, so it's a good way to become acquainted with them.

I don't need to be a therapist to know that you are not actually powerless, but it doesn't take a genius to see that you think you are. And common sense suggests that you have worked out what it would take for you to change that belief and decided you don't want to do it. For example if one slip would land you in jail then you are better in SA for the rest of your life.

Sorry to hear about your other problems. I am just reading another book by David Burns called Intimate Connections which deals with loneliness. Incidentally, Burns is a much more successful writer than Beck. Some people are good at inventing things and others at communicating them.

Dear Joel,

You are welcome and continued hatzlocha with your reaching out, man. And have some fun doing it all, at least once in a while....

Hey Nederman. You are, of course, uniquely you, but we are peas in a pod. If you've never experienced real powerlessness, then you have no idea what you're missing. For me it's the beginning of peace, reyshis Chochmah. Before Him, I am powerless. I wish this for you.

Dovy,

Thanks for all the support and reminders. So speaking of having fun, I was whining to my daughter about the joylessness stuff and she had the same idea as you and sent me a list of things to do to have fun:

Sit on the closest garden lawn @ huntington library. I suggest the japanese garden with the red bridge.

Pick 1 favorite spot to watch sunset in your car and try to make it there every few days

List your favorite comedies and watch them all again. They will still probably make you laugh.

Bug tony to send "old jews telling jokes" in a format you can watch.

Make a list of your favorite songs. Make a mix tape. Look at Pandora.com and spotify.com for ability to make mixes, stations and your favorite artists for free. They have jewish music.

Go watch a karate tournament

Play your favorite song and sing along...record for carla!
Same with playing harmonica to your favorite songs.

Listen to podcasts of jewish stuff or about anything really. Jacob, zachary or tony could show u how if you don't already know.

Watch funny youtube videos of dogs doing stupid stuff.

Go to Auntie Leil's beach house and spend a shabos watching the waves and writing in a journal about your favorite beach memories.

Go to Jewish shows,plays, musicals, lectures etc...maybe ask someone in your community to go with you so you can carpool and share the experience...maybe Rabbi andhis wife?

Skype art lessons with carla and watch youtube art lessons.

Play chess in the park

Write poetry

Make your favorite foods at least 1 time a week. Ask someone for help to have them make it.

Watch comedians,standup online, live or dvd. Probably just recordings too. Check out spotify and pandora for that.

Have a lil mini bonsai garden and learn the art.

Listen to a symphony with headphones and zone out or imagine cool scenes in your head that go with the music. Like flying over a city at night or something to play with imagination

Train tova [my dog] to do tricks. Watch online advice/videos on youtube and watch the series "the dog whisperer"

Get a ball you throw from the porch for tova to get in the yard. Sit on porch and listen to/sing along with music while you do that.

Play video games

Talk to happy and or wise people with body issues about how they stay happy. Maybe jonah and how he manages? What techniques he uses?

Do 1 random act of kindness a day. Something random. A card to a strangers mailbox with an inspiring quote. Take a favorite homeless person to lunch and ask them to tell you jokes...buy them icecream. I don't know, get creative

Scrap book. Make colladges for us kids.

Get a penpal of one of the pen pal kids that need supportive words. Write somone in jail...or send them letters or jokes to make them smile

Linger in coffee shop book stores and read everything you want for hours. Look at art books and photo books so its like a gallery tour & thhe big ones have awesome detail in the photos.

Visit the best do park

Look into a pinterest account for all kinds of interests

do puzzles

Learn local birds and sit and identify them and do bird calls...try and paint them...maybe accompanied with your poetry or favorite quotes. Give as gifts to community people.

Sculpting...there is a kind of material that doesn't require firing to solidify. Pretty cool.

AND............[drum roll] I'm now over two years clean. Looking back is really trippy. What a total mess my life was. So alone and loveless with the only lift in life doing P&M. There is no way to explain to you newer guys the depth and sincerity and meaningful love that pours out of my GYE virtuals. [no, virtualles. Yes, better]. And without them, I'd probably have thrown in the towel. I was pretty close. Sometimes the thought still blips across the radar screen, but it moves right along. To all you budskis, my virtualles, I love you. You've got to get this, you Newbies. I love them. Bezras "H I'm still clean, and I'm going to bed soon, so I'll probably make it to bed clean for today. Be'z "H, I "stumbled on" GYE. Where else can people tell us just what we need to hear, by way of chizuk, support, love and a kick in the pants? Thank you guys. eyn maspikim.

Yes, I have been powerless before. It's not as good as removing my yetzer hara and is inconsistent with Judaism that says that you are here to make choices. It's like being a nazir, which is frowned upon.

You have removed your yetzer hora?

Does that even mean your yetzer hora for food and all selfish concerns, laziness and resentment, too? If not, then I wonder if it has anything to do with the yetzer hora, but would guess it to rather be a sexual self-control skill you have learned well. That's a good thing anyhow, I think. But if your freedom is a ruchniyusdikeh one that is your yetzer hora itself, then the feeling of being drawn naturally after His mitzvos and love of His Torah must be a great place to be.

How did you do it?

Read Feeling Good by David Burns for an introduction.