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TOPIC: Let's do it! 708 Views

Re: Let's do it! 09 Sep 2024 16:54 #421076

  • yeshtikvah85
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chosemyshem wrote on 09 Sep 2024 14:29:

yeshtikvah85 wrote on 09 Sep 2024 03:34:
Incredible progress! Keep on crushing it!

On other notes:

1) did anyone here find the surfing the urge technique (the video with the waves etc.) in this website helpful? I'm sure some do, but when I used it once, I felt that it just makes me think about the urge more as opposed to pushing it away... or am I doing it wrong? Do what works for you. I'll share what works for me. Pushing it away takes a lot of self-control energy. Feeling the urge and recognizing that I don't have to give into it does not take so much energy.  I don't do the whole waves thing, but I often actively accept that I'm having the urge, recognize that it's fine to feel an urge, and remind myself that I don't have to give in. 

2) Thank G-d, I'm not currently involved in the following but I've had a hard time getting the correct definition:
Is pornography only when its full on nudity and acts of intimacy (This seems to be the definition that comes up when you google it) or is it even the typical love scene clips from movies etc.? And, which way does GYE define it when they refer to it? The 90 day chart has rules (vaguely defined as "improper sites). Halacha has rules (any intentional looking at a women's body would be a violation of lo sasuru). What triggers you is for you to decide. The recent GYE emails covered a concept of "red zone, yellow zone, green zone" you might find helpful.
I personally have zero comprehension of the line between a love scene in a movie and porn. The line between seeing this part of the body or that part, this specific act or that, is just too arbitrary. This is probably because for a very long time I would watch "love scenes in regular movies" just to stimulate myself. It became like a whole pattern. So for me, I consider intentionally watching a scene like that a fall. 


3) (sorry if this is a dumb question...) what is the cumulative clean days in the 90 days chart? If I'm clean for 28 days, whats the 56 cumulative days exactly? There are no stupid questions! (In theory. In practice we'll let you know when you are being dumb). Cumulative clean days are the amount of days since you started tracking. So if you are clean two weeks, fall for two days, and then are clean another two weeks, you'll have four weeks of cumulative clean days and a two week streak.

P.S. Mods if write anything that might be triggering to some please let me know and feel free to edit. I have a hard time figuring out what are the actual limits. Famous last words


Thanks for the reply and encouragement!
I hear you.
Always good to insert some humor! Thx for that!

Re: Let's do it! 09 Sep 2024 17:31 #421080

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chosemyshem wrote on 09 Sep 2024 14:29:



I personally have zero comprehension of the line between a love scene in a movie and porn. The line between seeing this part of the body or that part, this specific act or that, is just too arbitrary. This is probably because for a very long time I would watch "love scenes in regular movies" just to stimulate myself. It became like a whole pattern. So for me, I consider intentionally watching a scene like that a fall. 


I concur. To me that is considered a major fall too, both for halachic reasons and for the trouble it brings like masturbation. But I just always wasnt sure when GYE asks you if you have a challenge with that, if I do or not, as I wasn't clear what is the geder of intimacy, but I feel like in the frum world, watching porn equals watching untznius women/scenes.

Re: Let's do it! 19 Sep 2024 07:21 #421874

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Here we go....
BACK TO 0... 

I knew I wasn't meant to... I knew it was Elul... I knew it would mess up my progress... I knew all the issues it could bring... But while I did manage to push off a bit, I eventually gave in (presumably just one time, only to be followed by a few more). 48 hours of breaking a progress of 35 days or so... מה נאמר ומה נדבר...

But its a bump, hiccup or whatever you want to call it ,and we'll get back up again. Sheva Yipol Vekam... (Not to justify or downplay the aveirah but to encourage myself to recommit to this journey)

My takeaways are as follows (in no particular order...):
  1.  Never ever allow the thought that maybe once I reach a certain milestone I can let myself take a break and get back to it. It's extremely foolish (yes, I knew all along it was a bad idea but I guess I toyed with that idea in my thoughts here and there for a bit until it became just a bit more normal).
  2. Work with the amazing tools available on this website such as the F2F (and actually implement it) and not rely on myself too much... For me personally it was hard, as sometimes being on GYE reminded me of these things and I feel like it might have brought certain urges, but its gotta be the right thing to do. Can't fight the enemy if you don't know how it works and what tools to use to defeat it...
  3. Identify what brings me to those urges (mostly social media...) and try to curb its usage as much as possible and only use when absolutely necessary for work.
  4. The level of ruchniyus has to go up, for those desires to go down. Strengthen one to weaken the other (up for discussion: כל הגדול מחברו יצרו גדול יותר or something like that. How does that go together with what I said? יש לעיין.
  5. There might have been more points but im exahusted and gotta go to sleep.

Tomorrow is a new day
מארגען וועט זיין גאר
אנדערש (for those that do not understand Yiddish: tomorrow will be VERY different)

E-L-U-L

I still remember what I heard when I first entered Yeshivah Ketanah from my Rosh Yeshiva, it was during Elul, and the theme was פתחו לי פתח כחודו של מחט ואני אפתח לכם פתח כחודו של אולם

A gutteh nacht

P.S. I just remembered lehavdil what Trump said after the assasination attempt in Butler, PA: Fight, Fight, Fight (while pumping the fist in the air). We got an important fight. Gotta get on with the program.
Last Edit: 19 Sep 2024 07:27 by yeshtikvah85.

Re: Let's do it! 19 Sep 2024 07:38 #421875

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The way כל הגדול מחבירו יצרו גדול הימנו, and אין מחשבת עריות אלא בלב הפנוי מדברי תורה aren't a contradiction might be that if a Talmid Chacham stops learning he is at a greater danger of falling than an Am Ha'aretz who doesn't learn. Also, a Talmid Chacham who sees something improper will have more bad thoughts than an Am Ha'aretz who sees something improper. Chazal also say that there was an Am Ha'aretz who trangressed Yichud and nothing happened and the Amora said that if it was him he would have fallen. We see from this that for a Talmid Chacham boundaries are more crucial than for an Am Ha'aretz. So, if an Am Ha'aretz has an unfiltered device and nothing happens don't apply it to a Talmid Chacham because the latter has a greater risk of falling.
Last Edit: 19 Sep 2024 07:40 by yitzchokm.

Re: Let's do it! 19 Sep 2024 10:45 #421877

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Wow 35 days is an impressive streak! Love how you get right back up. Hatzlacha!

Re: Let's do it! 19 Sep 2024 11:10 #421879

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yeshtikvah85 wrote on 19 Sep 2024 07:21:
Here we go....
BACK TO 0... 

I knew I wasn't meant to... I knew it was Elul... I knew it would mess up my progress... I knew all the issues it could bring... But while I did manage to push off a bit, I eventually gave in (presumably just one time, only to be followed by a few more). 48 hours of breaking a progress of 35 days or so... מה נאמר ומה נדבר...

But its a bump, hiccup or whatever you want to call it ,and we'll get back up again. Sheva Yipol Vekam... (Not to justify or downplay the aveirah but to encourage myself to recommit to this journey)

My takeaways are as follows (in no particular order...):
  1.  Never ever allow the thought that maybe once I reach a certain milestone I can let myself take a break and get back to it. It's extremely foolish (yes, I knew all along it was a bad idea but I guess I toyed with that idea in my thoughts here and there for a bit until it became just a bit more normal).
  2. Work with the amazing tools available on this website such as the F2F (and actually implement it) and not rely on myself too much... For me personally it was hard, as sometimes being on GYE reminded me of these things and I feel like it might have brought certain urges, but its gotta be the right thing to do. Can't fight the enemy if you don't know how it works and what tools to use to defeat it...
  3. Identify what brings me to those urges (mostly social media...) and try to curb its usage as much as possible and only use when absolutely necessary for work.
  4. The level of ruchniyus has to go up, for those desires to go down. Strengthen one to weaken the other (up for discussion: כל הגדול מחברו יצרו גדול יותר or something like that. How does that go together with what I said? יש לעיין.
  5. There might have been more points but im exahusted and gotta go to sleep.


Sorry to hear... Falls are the hardest...
But seeing the way you're getting back up, fighting with such passion, and the 5 takeaways which you're taking with you for life, I wouldn't call it a bump or hiccup but rather a learning curve! The way up to the top of a mountain includes some parts that go downhill...

And as Rabeinu Nachman said: If a Yid doesn't fall into יאוש and עצבות after falling, then the YH has gained (nearly) nothing!

Keep strong my brother, you're doing amazing!!
My favourite resources:
1. "זאת בריתי". hebrewbooks.org/56572 (PM me for a sharper version)
2. "שערי גדולה". hebrewbooks.org/48344
3.  guardyoureyes.com/ebooks/item/the-battle-of-the-generation

My journey: Emunah struggles, Celebrating a fall, I'm fed up(main thread), I'm drowning, Tips for Shmiras Einayim.

Re: Let's do it! 19 Sep 2024 12:40 #421882

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35 days is really good. 

Did you even think you could get to 35 days clean? 

I haven't had a streak like that in 15 years. 

I think you have to tell yourself that 35 days is more than an entire month of cleanliness. 

It means you beat the yetzer hara 35 to 1. 

Any boxer will consider that an amazing record. 

Try again to hit another round of 35 days. 

(I know the feeling. Sometimes deep inside, your brain tells you that this challenge is just something you cannot defeat. You feel that you can go a few days but that challenge will always be there. And for that, I cry for you, for everyone here and for myself. It's so painful sometimes)

Re: Let's do it! 19 Sep 2024 14:20 #421891

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yitzchokm wrote on 19 Sep 2024 07:38:
The way כל הגדול מחבירו יצרו גדול הימנו, and אין מחשבת עריות אלא בלב הפנוי מדברי תורה aren't a contradiction might be that if a Talmid Chacham stops learning he is at a greater danger of falling than an Am Ha'aretz who doesn't learn. Also, a Talmid Chacham who sees something improper will have more bad thoughts than an Am Ha'aretz who sees something improper. Chazal also say that there was an Am Ha'aretz who trangressed Yichud and nothing happened and the Amora said that if it was him he would have fallen. We see from this that for a Talmid Chacham boundaries are more crucial than for an Am Ha'aretz. So, if an Am Ha'aretz has an unfiltered device and nothing happens don't apply it to a Talmid Chacham because the latter has a greater risk of falling.

Interesting explanation!
Thanks for sharing.
I'll have to look into it.

But, delving into what you said (highlighted in red):
Is the logic behind this idea that an am haaretz is already used to these things and its not a big chiddush or taavah for them as opossed to a Talmid Chacham, or did I miss the point?
This possible logic reminds me of what our chosson teacher (a really special Rov) told us, that he doesn't know how goyim still have the passion, feelings of love etc for their wife, being that whenever they go out to theater or other hangouts she'll sit on his laps (I know, it doesn't always happen but the point and logic are still valid), and it just becomes דבר הרגיל
Last Edit: 19 Sep 2024 14:27 by yeshtikvah85.

Re: Let's do it! 19 Sep 2024 14:29 #421892

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levaryeh wrote on 19 Sep 2024 10:45:
Wow 35 days is an impressive streak! Love how you get right back up. Hatzlacha!

Thank you brother. I definetly owe a lot of my success (and the approach to failures) to this website and more specifically the people on the forums like you who give advice, encourage and so on, so thank you!

Re: Let's do it! 19 Sep 2024 14:36 #421893

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odyossefchai wrote on 19 Sep 2024 12:40:
35 days is really good. 

Did you even think you could get to 35 days clean? 

Interesting question. I'm not sure. I don't think I ever really gave up hope, and knew that its probably possible and other people have done it, but I definetly did not believe that it would happen so soon that I quit for such a (relatively) long period of time, when this was a daily habit, multiple times a day, R"L.

I haven't had a streak like that in 15 years. 

Yesh Tikvah! You'll get to much longer streaks IYH

I think you have to tell yourself that 35 days is more than an entire month of cleanliness. 

It means you beat the yetzer hara 35 to 1. 

Any boxer will consider that an amazing record. 

That's a good way to look at things

Try again to hit another round of 35 days. 

(I know the feeling. Sometimes deep inside, your brain tells you that this challenge is just something you cannot defeat. You feel that you can go a few days but that challenge will always be there. And for that, I cry for you, for everyone here and for myself. It's so painful sometimes)

So I think the good part after this fall, is that I know that I managed to do 30+ days and it's doable


Thank you for your message, brother!

Responses in the text above
Last Edit: 19 Sep 2024 14:37 by yeshtikvah85.

Re: Let's do it! 19 Sep 2024 14:38 #421894

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upanddown wrote on 19 Sep 2024 11:10:

yeshtikvah85 wrote on 19 Sep 2024 07:21:
Here we go....
BACK TO 0... 

I knew I wasn't meant to... I knew it was Elul... I knew it would mess up my progress... I knew all the issues it could bring... But while I did manage to push off a bit, I eventually gave in (presumably just one time, only to be followed by a few more). 48 hours of breaking a progress of 35 days or so... מה נאמר ומה נדבר...

But its a bump, hiccup or whatever you want to call it ,and we'll get back up again. Sheva Yipol Vekam... (Not to justify or downplay the aveirah but to encourage myself to recommit to this journey)

My takeaways are as follows (in no particular order...):
  1.  Never ever allow the thought that maybe once I reach a certain milestone I can let myself take a break and get back to it. It's extremely foolish (yes, I knew all along it was a bad idea but I guess I toyed with that idea in my thoughts here and there for a bit until it became just a bit more normal).
  2. Work with the amazing tools available on this website such as the F2F (and actually implement it) and not rely on myself too much... For me personally it was hard, as sometimes being on GYE reminded me of these things and I feel like it might have brought certain urges, but its gotta be the right thing to do. Can't fight the enemy if you don't know how it works and what tools to use to defeat it...
  3. Identify what brings me to those urges (mostly social media...) and try to curb its usage as much as possible and only use when absolutely necessary for work.
  4. The level of ruchniyus has to go up, for those desires to go down. Strengthen one to weaken the other (up for discussion: כל הגדול מחברו יצרו גדול יותר or something like that. How does that go together with what I said? יש לעיין.
  5. There might have been more points but im exahusted and gotta go to sleep.


Sorry to hear... Falls are the hardest...
But seeing the way you're getting back up, fighting with such passion, and the 5 takeaways which you're taking with you for life, I wouldn't call it a bump or hiccup but rather a learning curve! The way up to the top of a mountain includes some parts that go downhill...

And as Rabeinu Nachman said: If a Yid doesn't fall into יאוש and עצבות after falling, then the YH has gained (nearly) nothing!

Keep strong my brother, you're doing amazing!!

Thank you for those insights and warm encouragement!

Re: Let's do it! 19 Sep 2024 16:34 #421910

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yeshtikvah85 wrote on 19 Sep 2024 14:20:

yitzchokm wrote on 19 Sep 2024 07:38:
The way כל הגדול מחבירו יצרו גדול הימנו, and אין מחשבת עריות אלא בלב הפנוי מדברי תורה aren't a contradiction might be that if a Talmid Chacham stops learning he is at a greater danger of falling than an Am Ha'aretz who doesn't learn. Also, a Talmid Chacham who sees something improper will have more bad thoughts than an Am Ha'aretz who sees something improper. Chazal also say that there was an Am Ha'aretz who trangressed Yichud and nothing happened and the Amora said that if it was him he would have fallen. We see from this that for a Talmid Chacham boundaries are more crucial than for an Am Ha'aretz. So, if an Am Ha'aretz has an unfiltered device and nothing happens don't apply it to a Talmid Chacham because the latter has a greater risk of falling.

Interesting explanation!
Thanks for sharing.
I'll have to look into it.

But, delving into what you said (highlighted in red):
Is the logic behind this idea that an am haaretz is already used to these things and its not a big chiddush or taavah for them as opossed to a Talmid Chacham, or did I miss the point?
This possible logic reminds me of what our chosson teacher (a really special Rov) told us, that he doesn't know how goyim still have the passion, feelings of love etc for their wife, being that whenever they go out to theater or other hangouts she'll sit on his laps (I know, it doesn't always happen but the point and logic are still valid), and it just becomes דבר הרגיל

When we are holy we can become more sensitized to improper images and hence they are a greater trigger. It comes from not feeding our desires as you wrote. A holy person will have a stronger desire not to see these images but when he does see them it can be harder. Even if it won't lead him to action the improper thoughts can be much more powerful. I saw this idea in the sefer V'haer Eineinu chapter 2, part 2. It is available in the GYE ebook library.
Last Edit: 19 Sep 2024 16:46 by yitzchokm.

Re: Let's do it! 19 Sep 2024 16:55 #421912

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yeshtikvah85 wrote on 19 Sep 2024 14:36:

odyossefchai wrote on 19 Sep 2024 12:40:
35 days is really good. 

Did you even think you could get to 35 days clean? 

Interesting question. I'm not sure. I don't think I ever really gave up hope, and knew that its probably possible and other people have done it, but I definetly did not believe that it would happen so soon that I quit for such a (relatively) long period of time, when this was a daily habit, multiple times a day, R"L.

I haven't had a streak like that in 15 years. 

Yesh Tikvah! You'll get to much longer streaks IYH

I think you have to tell yourself that 35 days is more than an entire month of cleanliness. 

It means you beat the yetzer hara 35 to 1. 

Any boxer will consider that an amazing record. 

That's a good way to look at things

Try again to hit another round of 35 days. 

(I know the feeling. Sometimes deep inside, your brain tells you that this challenge is just something you cannot defeat. You feel that you can go a few days but that challenge will always be there. And for that, I cry for you, for everyone here and for myself. It's so painful sometimes)

So I think the good part after this fall, is that I know that I managed to do 30+ days and it's doable



Thank you for your message, brother!

Responses in the text above


Dude, you are an inspiration. 
You got this. 
Keep stringing together the streaks. 
Shmooze to the Giborim here. The true fighters and warriors. 
People who have so much going on in their lives and they push so hard. 

Re: Let's do it! 25 Sep 2024 01:54 #422279

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So....

Really embarrassed and feel dumb but I broke my clean days again... This time though it was only one action as opposed to last fall last week that lasted about 48 hours...

I was just gonna not post anything because I'm so embarrassed but I think the accountability, encouragement, advice, and constructive criticism are important...

I have to listen to what I wrote last time and actually implement to prevent a recurrence, and maybe get a partner/mentor

Re: Let's do it! 25 Sep 2024 02:17 #422280

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yeshtikvah85 wrote on 25 Sep 2024 01:54:
So....

Really embarrassed and feel dumb but I broke my clean days again... This time though it was only one action as opposed to last fall last week that lasted about 48 hours...

I was just gonna not post anything because I'm so embarrassed but I think the accountability, encouragement, advice, and constructive criticism are important...

I have to listen to what I wrote last time and actually implement to prevent a recurrence, and maybe get a partner/mentor

Hey Brother,
No judgement. It's good that you were able to contain the fall. That shows progress in self control. Keep on working it! Hatzlacha 
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