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Question about 90 Day Rules 13 May 2020 23:17 #349670

Jewboy600
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Hi all, new user who is in day 3 of the 90 days.

Was wondering- sometimes I will find myself doing something out of boredom that is better for me not to, but also isn't mamish a psik reisha that will lead me to pritzus. For example, I will google something that I know could have results that could be problematic for me, but also could not. (Lemashal sometimes I google a certain news website that will sometimes have innapropriate news that could lead me to issues). If I google that thing with stahm kevanah even though really it's better not to, is that a fall? And additionally, if I google that thing with poor kavanos but lemaisa nothing inappropriate is found, is that a fall?

Re: Question about 90 Day Rules 14 May 2020 00:42 #349673

looking_to_improve
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I can't speak for everyone, but personally I wouldn't consider it a fall, and to be honest it's really up to you.

That being said, I think often the yezter horas way in, comes from the small things, "just go do this, it's not so bad", and relatively it isn't, but keeping him out with the first line of defense is very important to success. Not letting him stick his foot in the door, can never be a bad thing. I find when I can be more preventative, then I have fewer stronger urges.

For myself I think I convince myself that the fact there might be pritzus on certain places only secondary, but I think that really I'm hoping to bump into something.

I'm also on day 3 so looking forward to joining you in 87 days time b'eH

My current thread:
guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/364367-Square-one#366571

My first 2 threads:
guardyoureyes.com/forum/19-Introduce-Yourself/346789-Introducing-myself-%28original-title
guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/353716-Restarting-the-journey-after-a-plateau

Re: Question about 90 Day Rules 14 May 2020 02:43 #349676

greenland55
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Mazel tov on starting this journey. 90 day counter is fun and motivating, glad you're gong for it.
It's best to have a definition that you will use for a fall. In the TaPHSiC method ( guardyoureyes.com/articles/tips-suggestions/item/the-taphsic-method-made-simple?category_id=18&start=2 ) they define a fall as:

Either
(a) I intentionally motzi zera livatala (masturbate) while fully awake (and while not touching my wife)
or
(b) I intentionally obtain in any way adult sexual material of any sort, digital or printed (including magazines, DVDs, etc.)
or
(c) I intentionally go to any websites or web pages, pictures, videos, chats or forums, for the purpose of viewing adult sexual content (including any type of adult oriented images, drawings, videos, audio, or erotic reading material) and I actually viewed or listened to inappropriate content
or
(d) if I initiate contact with - or respond positively to - any woman other than my wife for a sexually related purpose (including by e-mail, chat, webcams, etc.)
or
(e) if I partake of any illicit sexually oriented services of any kind (including calls to adult phone lines, massages)

You can change it some but be consistent. I don't think that you probably need to reset it now. But maybe you can categorize such behaviour as a fall in the future if you think it's problematic. Keep it up!

Re: Question about 90 Day Rules 14 May 2020 02:44 #349677

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Jewboy600 wrote on 13 May 2020 23:17:

Welcome. It should be with hatzlacha. As far as your question, it is not a fall, but excuse my blunt language, it is mighty foolish.

Secondly, we must remember that "lo sasuru acharei eineichem" is not only about pornography...…….

Feel free to contact me at michelgelner@gmail.com

My threads: Lessons Learned: guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/335248-Lessons-Learned

My Story and G-d Bless GYE: guardyoureyes.com/forum/17-Balei-Battims-Forum/303036-My-story-and-G-d-bless-GYE

Re: Question about 90 Day Rules 14 May 2020 03:08 #349680

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Jewboy600 wrote on 13 May 2020 23:17:

Dvar Torah from Rav Nissan Kaplan shlita relating to news -- and how reading or hearing about pritzus has an effect on us:

Also shiur in English, http://dafyomireview2.com/ravkaplan/cdd/Chumash/5775-5778/108-5777-Nasso.mp3 -- skip to 11:45 and listen for ten minutes.

"למה נסמכה פרשת נזיר לפרשת סוטה, שהרואה סוטה בקלקולה יזיר עצמו מן היין" (סוטה דף ב')

והנה המתבונן בהך חז"ל יתפלא, לכאורה היכן ראה סוטה בקלקולה, אדרבה הרי הוא רואה את הסוטה ששותה את מי המרים, והיא מתה באופן נורא. ואדרבה רואה מזה כמה רע הוא לעבור את פי השם.

ואם היו שואלים אותנו אייך אפשר לחנך ילדים אסור להיות סוטה, ושצריכים להיות צנועים, היינו לוקחים הילדים לבית המקדש, ומראין להם סוטה ששותה, ובטנה צבה ומתה, מיתה משונה ודאי שוב הם לא יחטאו עוד.

והתורה מגלה לנו כאן דבר נורא, שזה ממש להיפך שעל אף שרואין מה שקרה לסוטה, מ"מ מכיון שאדם רואה שאשה חטאה, ויש חוטאים, זה משפיע רע על האדם ששוב יכול לבא לידי חטא. שכל שרואה אדם שנעשה חטא נהיה ענין החטא קר בעיניו, עד שבנקל יכול לבוא לידי חטא. עד כדי כך שאמרה תורה ראה סוטה בקלקולה יזהיר עצמו מן היין.

וכמו שמצינו בעמלק שחז"ל אומרים שקירר האמבטיה שנלחם בכלל ישראל על אף שכולם ראו מה שקרה לעמלק, מכל מקום נצטנן האמבטיה.

ומזה אדם צריך ללמוד להיזהר כל כך לא לקרוא בעיתונים או לשמוע בחדשות (news)דברים רעים, ועל אף שחושב שעליו זה לא משפיע ולא ישפיע. והרי דברים ק"ו כשרואה סוטה בקלקולה, שמתה אמרה תורה שזה סכנה ויזהיר עצמן מן היין. כ"ש וכ"ש, כשרואה בעיתון או שומע בחדשות דברים רעים כמה זה, משפיע, ובפרט ושם לא תמיד רואה אפילו את העונש.

ואין אדם יודע כמה רע זה משפיע על עצמו. וכדאי מאוד מאוד להיזהר בזה.

והנה שמעתי דהרי בתורה נסמכה פרשת נזיר לפרשת סוטה, שאם ראה סוטה בקלקולה יזהיר עצמו מן היין, ואילו בש"ס ובמשניות מסכת נזיר הוי קודם למסכת סוטה, (עי' גמ' ריש סוטה).

ושמעתי לבאר מהאדמו"ר מגור זצ"ל, שאמר כן לזקני הגאון ר' לייב גורביץ זצ"ל שבתורה ראה סוטה יזהיר עצמו מן היין, אבל מדרבנן אדם צרים לעשות לו שמירה קודם שיחטא. וצריך אדם להזיר עצמו מן היין קודם שיראה סוטה בקלקולה.

וכמו דאמרינן בגמ' "סחור סחור" [מסביב מסביב] "אמרינא לנזירא ולכרמא לא תקרב" [ואל תתקרב לכרם]. והיינו שרבנן עשו גדר ושמירה קודם שבא לידי חטא.

ובפרט בדור חלש שלנו צריך האדם לעשות לעצמו שמירה על שמירה שלא יראה שום סוטה בקלקולה, לא ע"י עיתון ולא ע"י שמיעה בחדשות, וק"ו בכל אופן אחר, וע"י זה יזכה להיות קדוש, כמו שהנזיר נחשב קדוש.

Re: Question about 90 Day Rules 14 May 2020 04:05 #349689

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Looking_to_improve wrote on 14 May 2020 00:42:

Whenever I go onto the internet I'm dying inside, secretly hoping I could "accidentally" catch something that will really boil me up.

The program works for me, when I work it

Last week I went shopping and some frum woman bent way down, in a way that invalidates any high neckline!! And I was gonna look and then for some reason looked away (GOD! Only Him!!) and thought to myself, she's not mine.... It was quite a spiritual experience for me.
That shabbos (we were still in niddah) my wife also bent down and then I laughed and realised, well she's not mine either! And then I thought when we're not in niddah then I realised, hey, she's not mine either, even if we CAN touch!

"Vegeta, what does the scouter say about his sobriety level?"
"... It's over NINE-ZEROOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!"
One day... At A Time :-D

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Re: Question about 90 Day Rules 14 May 2020 04:15 #349691

Jewboy600
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@HaShem Help me

I'm unclear what you're referring to? Pashtus is Lo Sasuru is not about pornography, it's about an a R'eiyah that will lead to znuz/Arayos, which pornography doesn't fall into (you will not have biyah with that which you are watching). (Ayin Rambam Hilchos Teshuva 4:4).

If your point is that the problem of shmiras eiyanim isn't limited to pornogrophy, that's correct, and there's machloksim poskim what the hagdaros are exactly. I'm unsure why that is connected to my post about something that will not in it of itself be assur but could lead me to assur things.

Re: Question about 90 Day Rules 14 May 2020 12:11 #349700

starting Current streak: 5 days OFFLINE Platinum Boarder Posts: 469	I'm not speaking for @Hashem help me but had I written that It would be as a reminder that regardless of whether a particular scene is to be considered a fall or not, one must be aware that a slip etc is often something that is assur min hatorah
	The start of 'STARting' is 'star'. Just start and you're a star!! 'the cleaner I stay, the cleaner I stay' - AlexEliezer העבר עיני מראות שוא, בדרכך חינו (תהלים קיט, לז) PM me for my phone number

Re: Question about 90 Day Rules 14 May 2020 17:55 #349710

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Jewboy600 wrote on 14 May 2020 04:15:

My program calls masturbation "sex with self". Sure we can magdir the issur by excluding pornography but does it make it any less bothersome when we succumb to it?

Re: Question about 90 Day Rules 14 May 2020 20:19 #349722

Jewboy600 Current streak: 24 days OFFLINE Fresh Boarder Posts: 8 Karma: 1	No, I simply had no idea what was being refereed to.

Re: Question about 90 Day Rules 14 May 2020 20:51 #349724

Hashem Help Me
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I am sorry if my response was not clear. I just wanted to point out that instead of focusing on what is a fall or not - (which is what i did, to the point that i was teasing myself by getting a millimeter away from a "fall") - it would be more beneficial to focus on avoiding getting started with lust in the first place. We have to take an honest look at ourselves and realize that so much of what we accept as ok, is really not kosher, and leads very easily and quickly to things that are assur.

A very fine fellow from a quite modern community posted that after being on GYE for a few months, he removed Netflix from his computer. He came to realize that it was not the "worst of the worst" that he has to avoid, rather he has to avoid anything heading in that direction.

So although as an incentive, we avoid "falls" as we strive for day 90, in the back of our minds we need to start examining the big picture. After the initial shakeup, "i don't want to be a frummy!", the menuchas hanefesh that b'ezras Hashem falls into place is real and consistent.

Re: Question about 90 Day Rules 15 May 2020 12:01 #349771

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I just saw in the Sefer Domer Devorah something which might be relevant to the discussion.

תקוני היסוד: וְאוּלָם הַאֵיךְ יַרְגִּיל הָאָדָם עַצְמוֹ בְּמִדַּת הַיְסוֹד, צָרִיךְ הָאָדָם לְהִזָּהֵר מְאֹד מֵהַדִּבּוּר הַמֵּבִיא לִידֵי הִרְהוּר כְּדֵי שֶׁלֹּא יָבֹא לִידֵי קֶרִי, אֵין צָרִיךְ לוֹמַר שֶׁלֹּא יְדַבֵּר נְבָלָה אֶלָּא אֲפִילוּ דִּבּוּר טָהוֹר הַמֵּבִיא לִידֵי הִרְהוּר רָאוּי לְהִשָּׁמֵר מִמֶּנּוּ, וַהֲכִי דָּיֵק לִישָּׁנָא דִּקְרָא (קֹהֶלֶת ה, ה): "אַל תִּתֵּן אֶת פִּיךָ לַחֲטִיא אֶת בְּשָׂרֶךָ" הִזְהִיר שֶׁלֹּא יִתֵּן פִּיו בְּדִבּוּר שֶׁמֵּבִיא לְהַחֲטִיא בְּשַׂר קֹדֶשׁ אוֹת בְּרִית - בְּקֶרִי. וּכְתִיב "לָמָּה יִקְצֹף הָאֱלֹהִים" וְגוֹ', וְאִם הוּא נִבְלוּת הַפֶּה, מַאי לַחֲטִיא, הֲרֵי הוּא בְּעַצְמוֹ חֵטְא, אֶלָּא אֲפִילוּ שֶׁהַדִּבּוּר לֹא יִהְיֶה חֵטְא אֶלָּא דִּבּוּר טָהוֹר, אִם מֵבִיא לִידֵי הִרְהוּר צָרִיךְ לְהִזָּהֵר מִמֶּנּוּ, וְלָזֶה אָמַר "לַחֲטִיא אֶת בְּשָׂרֶךָ לָמָּה יִקְצֹף", יִרְצֶה אַחַר שֶׁמַּחְטִיא יִקְצֹף עַל אוֹתוֹ קוֹל אֲפִילוּ שֶׁיִּהְיֶה מֻתָּר, כִּי עַל יְדֵי פְּעֻלָּה רָעָה הַנִּמְשֶׁכֶת מִמֶּנּוּ, חָזַר הַקּוֹל וְהַדִּבּוּר רָע. כָּל כָּךְ צָרִיךְ זְהִירוּת לְאוֹת בְּרִית, שֶׁלֹּא לְהַרְהֵר וְלֹא יַשְׁחִית.

וְעוֹד צָרִיךְ לְהִזָּהֵר שֶׁהַיְּסוֹד הוּא אוֹת בְּרִית הַקֶּשֶׁת, וְהַקֶּשֶׁת אֵינָהּ דְּרוּכָה לְמַעְלָה אֶלָּא לְשַׁלַּח חִצִּים לְמִדַּת הַמַּלְכוּת שֶׁהִיא מַטָּרָה לַחֵץ, שׁוֹמֶרֶת הַטִּפָּה הַיּוֹרֶה כְּחֵץ לַעֲשׂוֹת עָנָף וְלָשֵׂאת פֶּרִי, וּכְשֵׁם שֶׁמֵּעוֹלָם לֹא יִדְרֹךְ הַקֶּשֶׁת הָעֶלְיוֹן אֶלָּא לְנֹכַח הַמַּטָּרָה הַנִּזְכֶּרֶת, כָּךְ הָאָדָם לֹא יִדְרֹךְ הַקֶּשֶׁת וְלֹא יַקְשֶׁה עַצְמוֹ בְּשׁוּם צַד, אֶלָּא לְנֹכַח הַמַּטָּרָה הָרְאוּיָה, שֶׁהִיא אִשְׁתּוֹ בְּטָהֳרָתָהּ שֶׁהוּא עֵת הַזִּוּוּג וְלֹא יוֹתֵר מִזֶּה, יִפְגֹּם הַמִּדָּה הַזֹּאת חַס וְשָׁלוֹם וּמְאֹד מְאֹד צָרִיךְ זְהִירוּת, וְעִקַּר הַשְּׁמִירָה בִּהְיוֹתוֹ שׁוֹמֵר עַצְמוֹ מִן הַהִרְהוּר.

He writes that even kosher stuff can be a problem.
I've fallen in the past enough times R"L with seforim.

My email address is: growinghigher613@gmail.com

Re: Question about 90 Day Rules 15 May 2020 12:29 #349773

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Rashi on Kedoshim:

קדשים תהיו. הֱווּ פְרוּשִׁים מִן הָעֲרָיוֹת וּמִן הָעֲבֵרָה, שֶׁכָּל מָקוֹם שֶׁאַתָּה מוֹצֵא גֶדֶר עֶרְוָה אַתָּה מוֹצֵא קְדֻשָּׁה, אִשָּׁה זֹנָה וַחֲלָלָה וְגוֹ' אֲנִי ה' מְקַדִּשְׁכֶם (ויקרא כ"א), וְלֹא יְחַלֵּל זַרְעוֹ, אֲנִי ה' מְקַדְּשׁוֹ (שם), קְדֹשִׁים יִהְיוּ, אִשָּׁה זֹנָה וַחֲלָלָה (שם):

It's a gemara in Yevamos also (don't remember where exactly) that we are supposed to make the mutter assur.

Re: Question about 90 Day Rules 15 May 2020 14:50 #349775

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Jewboy600 wrote on 15 May 2020 12:29:

Thank you for your mareh makom. I would just like to change the language a drop. We are instructed Kadesh atzmecha b'mutar lach. It is appropriate to not indulge in everything permitted on a frequent basis. We should restrain ourselves and our base desires. Not every permitted activity should be done. We don't need to taste every cut of meat at a smorgasbord. When we get married, we should not act out every "permitted", yet unseemly act that we saw online. However we are not instructed to make what is muttar, assur. One must always be knowledgeable as to what is permitted. There are times that we all may need to put aside the Kadesh atzmecha ideal and engage in a permitted, yet not so appropriate activity. Better for one to indulge in permitted sex on a more frequent basis or in a manner not exactly consistent with our values (as long as his wife appreciates it) than to spend hours fantasizing with impure thoughts, having erections, or worse - all in the name of Kadesh atzmecha. It is a tough balance, but again, it is imperative that one know what is assur and what is muttar - and is just preferable not to do.

Re: Question about 90 Day Rules 15 May 2020 15:44 #349780

Jewboy600 Current streak: 24 days OFFLINE Fresh Boarder Posts: 8 Karma: 1	Lemaisa it's a machlokes Ramban and Rashi. Ramban explains like you, that there is a sense of the spirit of the law that extends past the letter of the law to our every day lives. Rashi explains that the gemara means make muttar things assur in order to distance yourself from aveiros. Not just stahm muttar things should be assur.