Read some old thread they were extremely similar

mzl wrote on 20 Jul 2018 17:06:

Do you work from home?

Some days I do.

This is not that bad. After many years I stopped resenting her.

Stopped resenting because you stopped caring? Or did you find a way to make peace with it?

I used to work from home, and it was very difficult.

Stopped resenting the fact that she is on facebook while I work my job and take breaks to service the kids. Stopped resenting her for giving me a hard time when I wanted to go  out to learn. Stopped resenting the fact that she always puts herself first. Stopped resenting the fact that as soon as she gets home she starts looking for a reason to go out. It goes on ...

I think this is what Rabbi Miller means when he says that a wife sandpapers a man's rough edges.

I care more about her too. She's like my baby. She needs me to be her mommy and tatty.

It's a lot easier to work hard than to watch someone be miserable or angry.

Day 44

Tisha b'av has all the pros and cons of divorce. This peace is nice but sterile.

mzl wrote on 22 Jul 2018 15:19:

Whew, lotta things...

1- If you're fasting, I think its a great success just to come out of tish'a b'av emotionally intact, especially as a couple! It seems that fasting rarely brings out the best in us, unless we're in seclusion. And any couple who are both fasting deserve a bonus for staying nice to each other, I believe. And many recovering couples have gotten the p'sak to simply not fast, period. You two are probably better off than you realize.

2- I assume what you wrote above about: She doesn't save me from my desires and I don't save her from whatever - was tongue-in-cheek. Was it? Or were you serious.

Lots of GYE guys wives function in the role of a masturbation-reducer. Some wives are doing it knowingly and willingly, others unwittingly. But it's a self-destructive situation either way, for a few reasons, besides the fact that it doesn't really work to either party's satisfaction in the end. So I ask.

3- You wrote a few times about feeling (frustration and) problematic desires as the direct result of seeing your wife's attire and/or makeup. You describe it very much the way many guys describe being tortured or teased by 'some woman out there'...a billboard, the secretary at work, a student in their class, etc. I'm not shocked by it, but just opining that it's a red flag. 

The ways such an experience might play out for many other people could be: telling the wife that she looks really pretty in the outfit/makeup and thanking her for it; not saying anything to her but feeling grateful that we are married to an attractive person (it's nice, most would agree); or - if it's a problem then being honest and telling her that when she dresses in that particular outfit or wears lipstick, you feel desire for her that doesn't go away and that you stew in it until you either masturbate or have sex with her. 

But it sounds like you are not doing any of those things, but instead feeling pressure, squarely blaming her body/image/clothes for it, and then unloading about it here, with strangers. I understand that sharing it here is good. But the degree of different-planetness going on here between you and your wife is important. When our wives become our lust objects and they don't even know it, things tend to just get weirder. 

I think that in the long-term, straightforward honesty is the best way in many cases. But I don't know nearly enough about your marriage, so I'd never make a specific practical suggestion at this point. What I'm doing here is listing options and allowing you to respond to them in a way that will (incidentally) clarify the most useful facts about the relationship you have.

Instead of trusting guys to describe the what they think is relevant about their marriage relationship, I have learned to make specific points and (sincere) suggestions and ask them to respond to them. It gets to the relevant points much more quickly than it would to leave people like us the room to explain our take on what's going on. So I'm not asking you what you think. I'm asking you to just consider new options and react sincerely to them. I'm hoping you write it back raw and real, no deep insight and no fairness needed. 

You may be an exception, because I believe that you pretty much have everything figured out, or are close to it. And I tipped my hand to you! Aye caramba!  :-)

But we're real men here, right? [spoiler][/spoiler]So, what do you say?

(I tried inserting an emoji right above, but instead a weird text box appears and I camt erase it...uh oh...)

P.S. Thanks for your honesty, clarity, and menchlichkeit in your posts. The Dov-praising a few weeks ago struck me as a bit strange, but compliments always feel good so who's complaining.

Hi.

Regarding (2) I never meant to write anything tongue in cheek about my wife and me.

If I tell my wife that some part of her appearance makes my life difficult she gets angry. So I don't tell her. But on days when I feel like it's too much I don't look at her.

I don't use the forum to release pressure. I am the one who creates the pressure and I release it as well on my own. But the forum is very important to me to keep motivated to do that work. It's a lot of work.

I hope I answered the questions, I'm a little woozy.

Day 45

Mazel tov! You are a real inspiration!

Over the last several days I verified that when I pull out all the stops in terms of helping with the kids, picking up trash, doing laundry etc. my wife seems comfortable with having a husband.

Day 46

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Today I had to work with a lady at work who always dresses well and wants to impress me with her appearance. During a lull we ended up talking about our kids and had a good laugh. Afterwards I thought that relating to her like a human being who has likes and dislikes etc (basically the image of G-d, ahem ...) instead of as a target to skip over felt really refreshing.

Day 47