Thanks MBJ so many of the helpful comments and one on one chats have been from my Haredi brothers. (Some of my best friends are black :-) )

I didn't care to be told I had chosen the wrong path religiously here.

My decision to become addicted to lust was the wrong path but I'm working on Tsuva.

Bezrat wrote:


Before I begin to address the subject which I would like to address, I want to point out that I don't think the discussion here should be in the form of "judging people" but rather one of "judging issues". Judging people, whether particular people, or groups of people, is not our job, and we should not get involved in that here.

Now for my response to your post, Bezrat:
The question of whether a person is "on the right path" or not, does not depend on ANY particular action, or even a number of actions.
Actions are judged by themselves, and the fact that another person, or group of people are "just as bad" does not only not justify it in any way whatsoever, but cannot even serve as a shield against criticism.
On the same line, just because one does act properly in certain areas, even such areas where others [of another group] do NOT act properly, is not either a sign that he has chosen the "right path", in comparison to another's path.
When we refer to the "PATH". we mean the general ideals and chosen "format of life" taken on by a certain person or group.
If we use your own example as a subject example, we can apply this by saying that whether a specific person is or is not diligent in THE ACT OF observing "the important mitzvah of learning Torah regularly", is only a question of the judgement of his particular ACTIONS.
When discussing whether one "chose the right path" our discussion is whether that person CHOSE A LIFESTYLE which upholds the idea that the important mitzvah of learning Torah regularly is or is not of paramount importance. If he chose the lifestyle which considers the important mitzvah of learning Torah regularly as one of the most important Ideals of a person's life, then REGARDLESS of whether that particular person is diligent in learning Torah regularly or not, [and although he will be surely judged by Hashem for the deficiency in his particular actions accordingly], nevertheless, when discussing his "path" we refer to him as "being on the right path".
On the other hand if a person lives his life as a member of a group which "as a way of life" does NOT put empahasis on the importance of Torah learning, then we may say that his laxity in that field is based on the fact that he is "on the wrong path".


If , as you say, "One of my chavrutas has smicha", there is absolutely no question, that as far as his ACTIONS are concerned, he will be rewarded the full credit he deserves for his efforts in Torah learning, but that reflects nothing as pertaining to the the [MO] "path" he has chosen.
Equaly so, the fact that "he tells me the level of child abuse and dysfunctional families in the Haredi community is shocking", does not shed any light on "the path" chosen by those charedi people, because NOBODY in their right mind will say that the Chareidi way of life has an IDEOLOGY which says that child abuse and dysfunctional families are "a way of life" to be condoned. Those are "particular actions, maybe even very "shockingly" widespread actions, but that cannot be a pointer as to the validity of the "path they have chosen.
As a followup of this, Suggesting to a "Haredi brother" who was complaining about the Charedi lifestyle, that "he could change if it was really bothering him" doesn't make sense. Just because a certain chosen "way of life" causes certain discomforts, does not justify dropping out and choosing another path, which has ideals which are fundamentally wrong just because choosing that path will save him the trouble.

You asked that we should not address the fact that the MO path is the wrong path because "We have free will". Free will cannot be used as an excuse to choose a path which is wrong, according to Torah guidlines. I'm sure that you'll agree that if a man were to choose a way of life which completely disregards Shmirat Shabbos, or kashrut, he would not be able to justify his "choice" or avert criticism by claiming "free will".

I will close by reiterating my opening statement.
I do not come here to judge any particular person, my only agenda is with the SUBJECT being discussed. Thus I ask of you, my dear friend and brother, BEZRAT -
PLEASE do not take any of what I wrote, as a personal confrontation, but rather as a discussion of the relevant topic.

Bezrat wrote:


The problem is that for an ultra orthodox person to become modern orthodox it is like a modern orthodox becoming Catholic. It is a belief, a belief in what is right and what is wrong. You may believe in your way but I have a deep seated belief in ultra orthodox Halacha. To suggest to change the way you keep Halacha and go against your values because of pain that the community caused isnt good advice in my opinion.

Bezrat wrote:


By the way I never meant at all that you are on the wrong path. Perhaps your path is correct, perhaps mine is. But my path holds that they cant both be right. So I just meant advising me to switch is tantamount to heresy. But indeed, maybe your path is right and mine is wrong.

endofmytether wrote:


I really don't want to add any more to this totally non-germane conversation, but that statement in extremely offensive, and I hope you were just reaching out for some hyperbole and you do not actually believe that. If you are stupid enough to believe that I pray you are the only one.

From the GYE Forum Rules

3.) Topics where opinions are strong and which can easily lead to controversy should generally be avoided, especially if they are not related to the issues of this forum (e.g. reconciling Torah and science, politics, etc...).

I think this would constitute one of the above....

Let's get back to talking about..........LUST!!

Pi


100% agree and I am totally done.

Now let's get back to LUST...

I am grateful for being here and am finding, among other good things coming from GYE is that I get so many good ideas and insights.

Someone said in a post that they are struggling and the response from experienced, sober members was "what is your trigger?" "What keeps putting you back out of control?"

For me, when I get tired I get sloppy and start falling back into old, unconscious patterns. I tend to burn the candle at both ends. I love getting up in the morning early before anyone else and since I work US hours from Israel I go to bed late.

In the evening is when I find myself thinking about acting out.

So I am going to rest more and be sure to take naps when I am tired and see how that helps.

interesting,
i think what your experiencing is part of a rule. Healthy habits breeds healthy mindsets, unfortunately the reverse is true as well.
your friend lavi

What a week for me I fell down and spilled my beer or something...

I decided after talking with a brother from here that I needed to install accountability reporting and to designate someone to receive them who really will hold me accountable.

But before I implemented the filter I binged for a week. Actually if there was any doubt in my mind that I am addict I found myself so incapable of thinking about anything but my lust for a week.

So now I have someone, a therapist and father of my Rav, to get the reports of what I've been doing online.

Starting over.

Amazing, Eli!
Not easy moving out of a comfort zone- and accountability is a biggie!
Wishing you tons of success, one baby step at a time.

Good to hear that you're taking another step, not just trying again!!

And it's great that you're coming back!!

Have you pinpointed any of the triggers that led you to the lusting in the first place? If you do you can start proactively working on how to deal with them and not to lust in the first place!!

KOMT!!! KOP!!!

Pidaini wrote:


How would I figure that out?

Was there a time when you felt more sane and then noticed that you were lusting again? If not, then try being more aware of your lusting status to see when it flares.

I have countless triggers, both emotional and physical. The emotional ones are the "harder" ones to get rid of, but identifying them first is the first step!

KUTGW!! KOP!!!

When I am tired for sure I am more vulnerable.

When I get worrying about money, too.

Quick update on progress baby step at a time...

I installed accountability software on one computer and left it off the other. Who was I kidding? Another lost week in lala land and off the 90 day chart.

So I fixed that and think I have been back on track for 5 days now or so.

One of the things the email GYE sends when we fall says is the process of starting has missteps, but as long as we keep getting back on the wagon we're making progress. Each time we fall we learn something. I am a hard headed Hungarian though...

So here I am starting again, because G-d doesn't make mistakes. And He created me as a member of the Jewish People and my highest purpose in life is to serve Him.
מִי יַעֲלֶה בְּהַר יְהֹוָה וּמִי יָקוּם בִּמְקוֹם קָדְשׁוֹ:
נְקִי כַפַּיִם וּבַר לֵבָב אֲשֶׁר לֹא נָשָׂא לַשָּׁוְא נַפְשִׁי וְלֹא נִשְׁבַּע לְמִרְמָה: