abieham

Man you are so fortunate to be dealing with this stuff so young ,If i had i could have saved my self lots of frustration Hang in there am rooting for you

shivisi wrote:


I wonder, do we deserve reward for not hurting ourselves? Do I deserve a reward for not leaving an open live wire around the house?

Is it not the other way around, that we owe everything to Hashem for allowing us to grow up? Do we not owe everything to Hashem for allowing us to be happy?

I believe that Hashem will give "reward", but to me it seems ungrateful to expect it and act deserving of it. Let us take a moment of honesty and thank Hashem for another clean day, and for giving us the sanity to protect ourselves from misery!!

Thank You Hashem!!!

May Hashem Who knows how difficult these trials are, pay you the reward you TRULY deserve for your herculous acts of strength!
Chazak ve'ematz!!!

dear pidaini, if you don't mind about me wondering about your wondering( you see it's wonderful) i don't think shivisi meant that abie should expect reward. rather he was saying that since Hashem (in his kindness) does reward people for being successful in any way, with their struggle, he definitely thought abie was deserving of this (and we can all agree with shivisi on this)
not doing an aveira when one has temptation is called a mitzvah (if you want a source contact me). and Hashem rewards mitzvahs.
your friend lavi

when i wrote "abie should expect reward." i meant expect in the sense that he should demand it. we don't demand anything from Hashem.

lavi wrote:


Yes, as I wrote, I believe as well that Hashem rewards for doing mitzvos, it's the deserving part that A) I don't understand (There is a vort from The Great Maggid of Mezritch about that that Dovid Hamelech says 62, 13 כי אתה תשלם לאיש כמעשהו "and you repay a man as if he did it"), and B ) for me it is counter productive for someone who was leading his life watching porn because he felt he wasn't getting what he deserved, to have such a mindset in getting sober.

For years I lived with being disappointed by not getting what I felt I deserved, and finally I learned that it's time to grow up, to realize that the world doesn't revolve around me and my expectations. I am here not for me, to try and get however much I could, but to see what I can do for the world that I was put in.

So to go and to start this all again selfishly with more expectations, is just a sure way to stay in that dungeon of self service.

I apologize if I'm misreading you, I just assume that there was a practical message in my friend's post, and I know that for me it would be a mistaken message.

Yes, as I wrote, I believe as well that Hashem rewards for doing mitzvos, it's the deserving part that A) I don't understand (There is a vort from The Great Maggid of Mezritch about that that Dovid Hamelech says 62, 13 כי אתה תשלם לאיש כמעשהו "and you repay a man as if he did it"), and B ) for me it is counter productive for someone who was leading his life watching porn because he felt he wasn't getting what he deserved, to have such a mindset in getting sober.

For years I lived with being disappointed by not getting what I felt I deserved, and finally I learned that it's time to grow up, to realize that the world doesn't revolve around me and my expectations. I am here not for me, to try and get however much I could, but to see what I can do for the world that I was put in.

So to go and to start this all again selfishly with more expectations, is just a sure way to stay in that dungeon of self service.

I apologize if I'm misreading you, I just assume that there was a practical message in my friend's post, and I know that for me it would be a mistaken message.

thank-you for sharing your thoughts on the topic.
i think i understand what your saying. but i'm not sure.let me recap.
we agree 1)Hashem does reward for mitzvos and also each step of trying to do the right think.
2) we should not demand or expect anything in return.
but let's say although i can't expect anything for several reasons-lets not go into all of them, i can wish (by telling)my friend that think he deserved reward, and he should think he doesn't. agree?

Of course you can, I wouldn't though, at least not on this forum. Why would I want to confuse a friend who can take it as advice on how to view the goal of sobriety, and especially a friend who has a difficulty with selfishness to begin with (like I do)?

And then again, What's the truth? Why would I want him to think that he does deserve it if I don't think that it's true? I don't believe that I deserve reward for keeping myself happy, I believe we will get it, but not that we deserve it. Therefore, I wouldn't tell a friend who is also keeping himself happy that he deserves reward.

May Hashem help us all remember what we are here for, and to do the right thing because that's what we're here to do.

thanks pidaini for your clarification
question for you.
is this similiar to a situation where lets say i think highly about someone(like abie and of course you!) and a pay them a compliment which i really think is true in my eyes, although there is no knowing the absolute truth, yet i think it is valid and even commended behaviour, and the receiver of course understands that it is his job to downplay it since ha cannot give himself credit for anything.
so let us say that shivisi was paying the compliment, although he would agree that 1) we don't trully know what we deserve. 2)it is merely from his point of view.
please let me know what you think about this (anyone out there is also invited to respond!!)
your friend lavi

Challenges are part of the "stage-set" which Hahem has set up for a person as his purpose for being in this world.

REWARD is the RESULT of the person's completing each part of that purpose.

Thus, There is "reward " for every challenge, whether it is doing a positive "active"" Mitzvah, or refraining from doing something which will destroy our "purpose".

thanks shivisi for going the fray.your quote.
May Hashem Who knows how difficult these trials are, pay you the reward you TRULY deserve for your herculous acts of strength!
Chazak ve'ematz!!!

pidaini and i were discussing a chakira was your statement just a compliment or did you really mean that abie should expect his reward, OR more importantly what message did you want abie to feel?? please clarify
your friends

Shivisi originally wrote:
May Hashem Who knows how difficult these trials are, pay you the reward you TRULY deserve for your herculous acts of strength!
Chazak ve'ematz!!!
lavi wrote:

May I offer a 3rd tzad?? [in typical Jewish style :) ]
Not only should one EXPECT reward, but the PURPOSE of ALL his actions should be toward that end!
See מסילת ישרים פרק א:
ולמה צריך שישים מבטו ומגמתו
בכל מה שהוא עושה כל ימי חייו
and he goes on to say:
שאדם לא נברא אלא
להתענג
על השם
וליהנות
מזיו שכינתו

So - the WHOLE purpose of ALL our actions through our WHOLE LIFE is the REWARD.
[Ramchal discusses in other places which rewards come in olam hazeh and which in Olam haboh]
But - R' chaim voloziner writes in Ruach Chaim that if one does mitzvos to receive the reward FOR HIS OWN SAKE, then thats called -
על מנת לקבל פרס
Instead, we must do it in order to get reward, because HASHEM gets Nachas Ruach from us getting the reward.
but the bottom line is that the purpose of EVERY action is for REWARD!

I'm sorry abie for that. I didn't mean for it to turn into such a big conversation.

How are you doing?

is there anything from from deviating from the original post?? pidaini? abie? shvisi? anyone? if there is i'm sorry and if there isn't then what is wrong with a BIG conversation?? (and by the way it is supposed to be p'daini)

shivisi, i have a lot to say about what you wrote, but i'm afraid absolutely no one is interested. and even if i write it to make myself happy, gye will probably ban me for life, for being boring, sorry.

Lavi,
u can send it to me in a PM or email.

she.v.c26@gmail.com

oops! does GYE allow giving out emails in public forum??
Maybe we'll both be banned, then we can start a start a new group to help any1 else who was banned from here and we can call it "The GYE BANNED-AID Group".

ha ha ha, love it- the new band.