Now that's unfortunate. I know some people that are addicts and i am scared that they will never change. I feel that if they are not forced to change they never will. That is very sad. On the other hand maybe without being forced they still will change as did you. I'm going to pray for them.

dear yossi - i believe for a person to change, they have to have a REASON to change.and for an addict like me, it's gotta be a very strong reason.and there has to be the realization that i am doing something wrong (very hard). and there has to be the opportunity for change. and once you get through all that, and you have decided to change, then comes the pain of withdrawal. to put it mildly, we addicts have a tough road ahead of us.i hope our Creator is merciful to us.

These people i know dont feel like they have a strong reason to change although their lives are in shambles. They dont believe that release from the addiction will give them a better life. Is there any way to help these people through an action that i do, or can they only come to to recovery on their own?

yossi - you will have more than one answer to this question - use whichever one works.everyone is different based on his/her upbringing and therefore needs to be treated in a different way.
my answer - they MIGHT realize one day that they want to change, but chances are they won't. a person doesn't release himself from jail.and they are most likely in denial, big time.dov is right - they have to make a decision on their own - but if you're a friend, you have to ge them to want to make the change on their own.they won't listen to YOU, just because you're a friend.how to do this? gently, very gently.these people are probably in pain, and to yell or scream just aint gonna work.do it with love, show them you care.that is the whole basis for ALL 12 step meetings.ever go to one? everyone there loves you, and is rooting for you, without expecting anything in return.as the beatles once said, 'all you need is love' wel, they were partly right, you do need more than just love.but it's a good starting point.the caring that people showed me here on GYE was THE ingredient, above all else, that got me going on the road to recovery. hatzlacha!

Yossi.L. wrote on 07 Sep 2011 20:38:
OK, so I am getting into a conversation that's not mine again, but...

Personally, I find this kind of talk toxic. Before labeling anybody else 'an addict' or wondering about how unmanageable their lives are, I suggest you only look at yourself , and do something about your own mess. My wife and I have noticed that we have  a natural tendency to talk about the troubles of other couples when we are not really getting along that well....hmmm...

If you are not really in trouble yourself, Yossi, then you will never really relate to them, anyway - and if you are in trouble (an addict), then you will never be able to be any real help to them until your side of the street is cleaned up. It's not mainly about giving people information or inspiration - but about sharing real experience, strength, and hope in our good recovery with each other. When we see that it really works, then we use it. But just being shown that something is right or true, does very little if anything at all. I have never, ever seen anyone make real, long-lasting change because of getting "inspired" by another person.

So, "obviously you cannot transmit something you haven't got." (end of the book, AA).

Being so imperfect myself, all I have for you is a suggestion to focus 100% on getting fixed.

Love,

Dov 

Dov,

In all honesty......when I read what you said initially my defense mechanism when up and I was looking for something wrong in your words so as to show you were wrong. But I didn't find it. After calming down and reading what you said for the 4th time Your words penetrated into my heart very deeply. Thinking about what you just said I realized that I to have the tendency to dwell on other people's problems so as not to deal with my own issues all the time. It's very helpful that you interjected in to this conversation. Thank you.

Yossi

Hatzlocha with moving on in the best direction for you now. Getting better may be simple, but it sure is not easy, as you are discovering, yourself.

As far as thanking me for wanting to help, it's easy for me! I love every person who is an addict (or really having bad lust problems and wants to get out from under them). We are like a weird bunch of brothers.

quote by dov : 'I have never, ever seen anyone make real, long-lasting change because of getting "inspired" by another person.'

i dont know how to do a quote yet.


dov - you know i am the person who always does the things that you never saw.so, i will tell you that i was inspired by the following people in my quest for refuah (in no particular order) : my friend in memphis, you, r' guard for what he is doing here, and anybody and everybody on this forum who even does one little bit of recovery.they all inspire me.and that's what r' guard wants - he wants others to be inspired by the work that people do here.

jack wrote on 09 Sep 2011 14:18:

Just click qote next to the persons post.




Anyway, I don't think Dov meant that someone else can't be the catalyst for you to change.  Only that ultimately, the desire to change must come from within AND you have to do the work.  Being inspired doen't do anything per se.  It's what you do yourself that brings the change.  We all hear nice mussar shmuzen and are nisorrer.  Being moved, even crying, does nothing, if we do nothing about it.

i think then we are all saying the same thing.the work was definitely mine - my friend in memphis is not the one who had wild fits of withdrawal symptoms, he just listened on the phone while i cried, screamed and tore my hair out from the pain of withdrawal after 38 years of acting out and suddenly stopping.but without him on the other end of that phone, without that soothing southern accent of his, i could have NEVER, NEVER have done it. makes sense?

Perfect sense jack, KOT and have a good shabbos!

call me melodramatic if you want, or sentimental, or just mental, but when you said that to me -' KOT and have a good shabbos,'
it will give me strenght for the rest of the day.tomorrow? i'll need another dose.when will it end? when will i no longer need another dose, and another dose, etc.? i'll let you know when and if it happens!

Life is not for the faint of heart ~author unknown (out of zemmy's playbook).  It's hard work.  "adam leamal yulad" We keep working til we are 120 or else we die (even if we are still technically walking around).  Just don't look too far down the road.  It's foggy and raning.  Just look at the road right in front of you.

Be well my friend!

thank you.and one more thing - listen to dov - er vays vot er redt.

I found this in a chizuk email quoting dov