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Yaakov's Ladder

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Scientific studies show that it takes 90 days to break an addictive pattern in the mind. Start your own Log of your journey to 90 days! Post here to update us on your status and to give each other chizuk to stay strong!

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TOPIC: Yaakov's Ladder 185380 Views

Re: Yaakov's Ladder 06 Jul 2014 10:23 #234708

shivisi
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dd wrote:

Dear Lavi,

i think your making a mistake the two wings thing i about the love one has to hashem what mbj is talking about is the love hashem has to us which is unconditional,

like the tzaddikim taught us hashem loves any jew out there in any situation more then the largest amount of love we can even imagine,

kol(loving) tuv!!!

A Great man once said -
אהבת השם - Is not about how much I love Hashem when I see how much Hashem Loves me,
It's about how much I love Hashem at those times when I DON'T see His love for me.

And Hashem's love for me, [אהבת אותנו ורצית בנו] is not so much about how much Hashem loves me when I love him, It's about His unconditional Love for me even when I don't show any love for Him.

Re: Yaakov's Ladder 06 Jul 2014 10:46 #234710

MBJ
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lavi, let me clarify. I think what kilochalu said covers it, but I will just add my nuance to it. I am certainly not proud of my actions, I will try to do better in the future because I know that more is expected of me and I have the ability to do more. So I come to Hashem with shame on those times that I reflect on those failings. On the other hand one of my favorite pessukim in the Torah is "וראיתי את הנער באשר הוא שם" (may not be quoted perfectly). It is such a beautiful and powerful passuk that tells of the wonderful midos of Hashem. I take that to heart. Not that I am proud of my actions, not that I don't fear Him, (Though recently I feel the love more than I used to feel the fear), but that I know that no matter how dirty my clothes are, He can clean them. No matter what my mistakes are, if I reach out to Him B'tmimus, He will always bring me in. He loves me despite my mistakes.

I read people who say, Oh how can I daven after I just did X Y Z, how can I put on tefillin, how can I learn. Those people are mistaken because they only think about the fear and shame, and not about the love. All that leads to is neglecting more mitzvos and getting even further away from His love for us.

For me, it is the knowledge of His love for me that lets me get through the day sober. Because I know in my mind and in my heart that whatever He does to me is only out of love and my own best interest, and therefore I have no choice but to accept it with appreciation. Even when it seems to suck big time. That is the only way I stay sober.

Let me just add one more thing (really saying the same thing in a different way). Fear of Hashem is important, but my fear of Him never kept me clean, but His love for me does.

My Story
Only when we make our real lives sweeter than our fantasies will we reap the emotional rewards, the happiness of recovery. - AlexEliezer
Focus on making the right choices as they come up. - Skeptical
When I start to literally accept G-d's Will as guiding my life today, things start to change. - Dov

Last Edit: 06 Jul 2014 10:55 by MBJ.

Re: Yaakov's Ladder 06 Jul 2014 20:09 #234722

lavi
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thank-you, mbj, you have made yourself very clear and understandable. i think we can all get a chizuk from what you said. i can also understand that the focus on love helps you, more than the focus of fear. i would like to point out however, that one has to be careful with such an approach, because it can bring out the following additude; such i feel such love from Hashem and i know he can bring me back from whatever mess i get in to, so it isn't so bad if i slip here and there and then some etc. that is why it is good to mix the love with fear, to make sure it doesn't get out of hand. of course i'm not saying that this applies to you, i'm just pointing out an obvious pitfall, which incidently is prevalent in certain religions which preach love love and love, just fess up, and everything is rosy and dandy like cotton candy, vehamaivin yovin. by the way i want to thank you for your response, it is much better when things are clarified to everyones satisfaction.

i love you all

Re: Yaakov's Ladder 06 Jul 2014 23:10 #234730

Pidaini
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I had two interesting experiences over the weekend

1) On Friday morning my internet wasn't working, or rather the filter wasn't letting anything through. I was royally annoyed and was seeing if there was something wrong with my computer.

Well, obviously, Zlatah Yenta and Stan woke up then and needed to be attended to. I was getting very frustrated that they were asking for attention, don't they see that I have other things to do?!

Well, it seems they did, and they weren't about to take it sitting down, and they just made it more clear that they wanted the attention!! Kids these days!!

BH, I somehow realized that I had put my internet first on the priority list, over my children. Not something that is really correct, but I was so frustrated, and maybe I'd have to give in my computer, and who knows what!! SO I took the kids out and called a friend telling him what I was feeling, and with him on the line, asking Hashem to help me accept it for whatever it was and be there for my children as I am supposed to be. Day passed great, BH!!

2) I woke up late on Shabbos morning and missed the minyan that I wanted to daven at. I was very disturbed by it, and hence penned a new syndrome...Korach Syndrom. That is when one wants to serve Hashem in a certain way, and Hashem clearly shows him that He doesn't want that service from him, and that person gets upset that that's not what Hashem wants from him.

BH, I was able to acknowledge that as well, and had a pretty nice davening. It's so much fun to be Human!!!

Yankel | My Ladder | Talking to Hashem
I'm just a dude, another guy on this bus.

Have a great day, unless, of course, you made other plans. ~ obbormottel
"Nothing changes as long as everything stays the same" ~ Dov

Re: Yaakov's Ladder 06 Jul 2014 23:21 #234732

cordnoy
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Pidaini wrote:

) I woke up late on Shabbos morning and missed the minyan that I wanted to daven at. I was very disturbed by it, and hence penned a new syndrome...Korach Syndrom. That is when one wants to serve Hashem in a certain way, and Hashem clearly shows him that He doesn't want that service from him, and that person gets upset that that's not what Hashem wants from him.

I know that there are many people on this site who are closer connected to God that I am, so correct me if I'm wrong, but where in that story did you witness that God doesn't want that service from you? You woke up late! Now, I don't know if you had too much to drink Friday night; perhaps you didn't set your Shabbos alarm clock; maybe a bunch of stuff....but why blame it on God? You didn't get up in time to service Him at that minyan! You're upset!? Perhaps God is!

I will conclude with what I started: I am not so connected, so I don't really know.

[This discussion, has bearing on the whole picture Reb Yankel, but that would be for our chats or emails.]

b'hatzlachah

My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads: Mikvah Night - Page 1, Page 2, Page 3, Last Page

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Re: Yaakov's Ladder 06 Jul 2014 23:30 #234734

dms1234 Current streak: 767 days OFFLINE Platinum Boarder Posts: 1106 Karma: 49	Pidaini I woke up late on Shabbos morning and missed the minyan that I wanted to daven at. I was very disturbed by it, and hence penned a new syndrome...Korach Syndrom. Love it. Is Pinchas syndrome when you wake up really early to go learn before netz? When one wants to do Hashem's will against all odds and Hashem helps him with mighty Zrisus?
	I am happy to speak on the phone. Please email me at dms1234ongye@gmail.com My name is Daniel, I go to face to face meetings and I work the 12 steps with a sponsor.

Re: Yaakov's Ladder 07 Jul 2014 01:55 #234745

kilochalu
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Pidaini wrote:

BH, I somehow realized that I had put my internet first on the priority list, over my children. Not something that is really correct, but I was so frustrated, and maybe I'd have to give in my computer, and who knows what!! SO I took the kids out and called a friend telling him what I was feeling, and with him on the line, asking Hashem to help me accept it for whatever it was and be there for my children as I am supposed to be.

shmoozing with your friend about your internet problems and about surrendering and talking to Hashem and accepting etc etc,
sounds pretty busy,
did that leave you anytime for real living, i.e. paying attention to your kinderlach?
just wondering

Re: Yaakov's Ladder 07 Jul 2014 05:28 #234750

Pidaini
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cordnoy wrote:

Pidaini wrote:

There are really two answers, the theoretical one and the factual one. I guess the factual one comes first.

I woke up on time, but there has been a stomach bug going around in the Pidaini family and I woke up feeling very nauseous, based on that I went back to sleep in order to make sure that my body would have the rest it needed to fight it ("v'neshmartem m'od l'nafshoseichem").

The theoretical answer is that regardless of what I was supposed to do to get up early, when I wake up late there is still still something that Hashem wants me to do NOW in my present situation. It is very similar to my mindset of my currently being a sexaholic, I don't know if there were things that I could have done so much differently (not a discussion for right now) but the fact is that this is how I am now, and for right now THIS is how Hashem wants me to serve Him, even though I would pick other things if I had the choice.

(and this fits beautifully with our other chats, Reb Avraham

)

kilochalu wrote:

Yes, when I wrote "took the kids out" I meant taking them bye bye with me to makolet. The conversation with friend took maybe....3 minutes (estimated) and after that I had plenty of time to be with them and after that with my wife and after that doing things that come before the internet, all of which I probably would not have done for I would have been to involved (both physically and in mind) in the internet.

Yankel | My Ladder | Talking to Hashem
I'm just a dude, another guy on this bus.

Have a great day, unless, of course, you made other plans. ~ obbormottel
"Nothing changes as long as everything stays the same" ~ Dov

Re: Yaakov's Ladder 09 Jul 2014 14:45 #234903

chesky
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cordnoy wrote:

I know that there are many people on this site who are closer connected to God that I am,

Sorry to interrupt, but I have to ask Avrom, what makes you think that there are other people more connected than you are? Is there a scoreboard which shows what level of connection?

I am writing this because I think you are amazing and that since I have "known" you on this site, you have made tremendous progress. It pains me to see you feeling this way about your connection with Him.

With love

Chesky

Last Edit: 09 Jul 2014 14:52 by chesky.

Re: Yaakov's Ladder 10 Jul 2014 00:14 #234924

cordnoy
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Thank you Chesky

Your post is inspirin' to me.

Yes, I have grown on this site in many ways, but as our conversations with the fellows and the chevra goes, my recovery has to do with other things; it is very much non-God related.
I will concede that my connection is gettin' closer, but it is a far cry from where others are holdin'.

They always speak how they pray to him and collaborate with Him.
they mention all their divrei Torah which are mechazek them.

That doesn't resonate with me....yet.

Continued hatzlachah to all

My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads: Mikvah Night - Page 1, Page 2, Page 3, Last Page

https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/1-Break-Free/210029-Tryin

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Re: Yaakov's Ladder 10 Jul 2014 02:52 #234938

kilochalu OFFLINE Platinum Boarder Posts: 335 Karma: 20	your impeccable honesty (which we all can learn from) here which is chosomo shel hkb''h definitely puts you in a great position for kirvas elokim this kirva can be realized no matter how far away you believe you may be because in reality the kirva is there in yourself being that your neshoma is a cheilek eloka memaal

Re: Yaakov's Ladder 10 Jul 2014 20:51 #234989

lavi
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i agree (does that matter to anyone?)
avrum/cordnoy is the man
i can understand (a little bit, ok?) that recovery can be made in a very technical way and leaving religion out of it, and if this works so far for a/c so be it. but sooner or later i think you will apreciate the jewish aspect of it. think about it, you definitely need siatta dishmaya to help you with everything especially addiction, and siatta dishmaya is connected with religion, believe it or not

i love you all

Re: Yaakov's Ladder 10 Jul 2014 21:04 #234992

cordnoy
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lavi wrote:

sooner or later i think you will apreciate the jewish aspect of it.

Perhaps yes; perhaps not....but it is not somethin' I spend time thinkin' about.

lavi wrote:

avrum/cordnoy is the man

A "man" I know he is; "the" man...I do not know.

thanks

b'hatzlachah

My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads: Mikvah Night - Page 1, Page 2, Page 3, Last Page

https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/1-Break-Free/210029-Tryin

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Re: Yaakov's Ladder 10 Jul 2014 22:30 #234994

chesky
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cordnoy wrote:

They always speak how they pray to him and collaborate with Him.
they mention all their divrei Torah which are mechazek them.

lavi wrote:

i can understand (a little bit, ok?) that recovery can be made in a very technical way and leaving religion out of it, and if this works so far for a/c so be it. but sooner or later i think you will apreciate the jewish aspect of it.

Thank you Avrom,

I don't know what you imagine connection to G-d to be, but whatever it is i am sure that it is similar to what I imagined it to be before I came to SA.

So firstly, regarding what you wrote above, how one relates to G-d is very personal and individual.

Secondly (regarding what Lavi wrote) - on a basic level relating to G-d has nothing to do with Yiddishkiet. (Of course Yiddishkeit gived added value, but that is a different issue). It has to do with being a human being, who relates to His Creator.

When I came to SA i saw that a bunch of alcoholic goyim could talk about and to G-d in a perfectly natural and normal way. They related to a Higher power who is completely real to them. That was what i wanted. And i am thankful that it came. It came from going to meetings and seeing and hearing people who had been given a knew life by a Power which they did not have in themselves, it came from sharing with friends and admitting (at the beginning it was weird) that i could not on may own and it came from talking to Him and telling Him my problems (sometimes through friends) and asking Him for help.

How come we are able to relate to faceless people on anonymous forums with names like Cordnoy, without even knowing whether he really is a man or a woman, whether he is twenty five or sixty five? Why is that more real than a real Abba who cares about us?

May He grant us sobriety, sanity and serenity.

Re: Yaakov's Ladder 10 Jul 2014 23:10 #234995

cordnoy
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Chesky,

Because you spent so much time and energy into my recovery process in the beginning, as this post attest to:

chesky wrote:

Cordnoy,
I thank you for sharing your feelings so openly and honestly.
I feel that I need to clarify something.
I started posting on the forum again (after nearly three years), not because I have what to teach people here but because I lusted for many years and tried to stop without success. Even after I found this website and was clean for five months, once I started falling again, I could not do anything to stop acting out. Even after I started SA, for a year and a half, I could not stay clean for more than a few days at time. (In SA people like me are called chronic-fallers). No, I am no big shot, I am a failure. But the more I accept that on my own I can never win, that I am up against something way more powerful than me, the more I realize that I have to turn to my Abba for help.
And I learnt that he CAN help me. First and foremost I saw this at meetings with other addicts. As frustrated and confused as I was, I knew many other addicts had recovered and they claimed that He had helped them.
Slowly I discovered that he could help me too, and today I am thankful for every day of sobriety, because today I know that I cannot take sobriety for granted at all.
So, I am here to share the hope that if a failure like me can recover then so can others here.

cordnoy wrote:

He is with us..in the addiction??
what does that mean?

I don’t answer for G-d.But I can identify with your resentments and frustrations towards G-d.
With me before recovery, since I knew all the answers or at least felt that I was supposed to, when things did not go the way they should have, that was the perfect reason to act out. After all, clearly He either is not interested, or does not care, and anyway if He cared then why doesn't he punish me....
In recovery I learnt to communicate with HaShem, no differently than I would with anyone else I know. I try to share with Him everything; my frustrations, my fears and my resentments and my gratitude. After all He is my Abba. If I cannot talk tell my Abba that something is bothering me, then there is a problem. Yes, I can be angry with him too. There is nothing wrong with telling Him that I cannot understand why something happened to me; it is the truth. Neither do I accept the answer to come to me in some miraculous or inspirational or divine way. Things don’t get better just because I feel they ought to.
I finally was able to talk to Him about lust too; about the women who have such power over me, about my fantasies which have such power over me and everything else.
And I found that when I have an Abba who cares, then I can switch off from worrying and obsessing. Neither do I have expectations nor disappointments.I don’t need answers because when I have an Abba who is watching me, then I don’t have to worry.
Yes, He is there with me and he is there for everyone. We just have to talk to Him about it.

I will therefore respond to you, but in some ways, it is chazaras hashiur, although now I am also an SA go'er. You, MendelZ, the Good Doctor, Skep and others tried hammerin' it home to me. I even claimed at one point to be davenin' better because of it.

However, one of the points you made in your recent post is actually somethin' I was thinkin'. All those SA people talkin' and prayin' to their "Higher Power," who are they talkin' to? As it says in the book, "God, as we understand Him." But, us, as frum yidden, can we really truly say that the addict across from me is gettin' help from the same Higher Power that I, the frum addict is gettin' help from?

Now, I wanna conclude with three things.
1. I will not go back n' forth with this, for I get worked up; it makes me somewhat tense, and for right now, it doesn't help me on a practical level.
2. I wrote earlier this mornin' that we shouldn't get involved in philosophical issues. This one has direct mitzvah connotations and is an integral part of the SA meetin's.
3. As I was writin' this, I stopped at one word: "gettin'"....perhaps they and us are not prayin' to the same "Higher Power," but that does not mean that it indeed is the same "Higher Power" helpin' us all.

It is my blessin' (birchas hedyot for sure) that I (and ya' all) should have the assistance (like Lavi wrote somewhere else today about siyata dishmaya) of our Higher Power to keep us safe from our lustful addictions and desires, and that we should realize that it is He who is holdin' our hand.

May God be with us all! Amen!

My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads: Mikvah Night - Page 1, Page 2, Page 3, Last Page

https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/1-Break-Free/210029-Tryin

Warning: Spoiler!

Last Edit: 10 Jul 2014 23:20 by cordnoy.