I have been white knuckling it recently. Not an altogether pleasant way of doing things. I am finding myself hoping I chance across questionable images so I can enjoy them. *cough* banner ads *cough*.

I have been lusting after my wife. I guess I never gave up lusting for her. In my given situation that can be a thorny situation. Then again, in any situation it can be thorny. I am still refusing to fantasize about her, and I guess that is the reason I haven't actually fallen. But I am still lusting, and disappointment is frustrating to say the least.

No progress, no moving forward, at least none that I can see.

The problem is I am not sure how not to lust for her. There she is, very beautiful, in my house with me everyday. Technically, we can have a sexual relationship, yet completely unavailable. Deep down I know that lusting for her is bad and even she mad herself available, it would not solve the lust problem. In fact it would probably just compound it. Intellectually, I am not sure where the switch is. I can't turn off my attraction to her, nor should I. The difference between healthy attraction and unhealthy lust is what I am trying to find.

So lets think, after all thinking out loud is why I like to post here. What is lust? Lust is about my gratification, it is about filling my desires. It is NOT about getting close to her. I do desperately want to get close to her, but why? I want to feel loved, needed, appreciated, etc. All these things are about me receiving, all are selfish. We all know that selfish desires are unhealthy. Being attracted to her is OK, wanting to get close to her is OK. Wanting those things so I can feel better about myself is not OK. Where do I draw the line?

I think I need to pull back. I think the reason why things have been stalled is that I have been pressing too hard. Things were getting better up until 2 months ago or so, but I was impatient and started pressing, and now things have stalled. I was impatient because I wanted things for me, and it wasn't about her. When things were going better it was about her. It is so hard to be a passive player in life. I was too aggressive and now I have to pay the price. I have to be even more patient. Hashem has decided that I am still not ready, I guess my actions and feelings have proven that. So surprisingly, He was right, go figure, I am still not ready. I am still too focused on me, on the lust. I have to continue to learn the lessons and then maybe He will judge me ready for my marriage to move forward.

So to summarize:
1. Be patient
2. Think about what she wants, not what I want
3. Be patient
4. Stop trying to force her to my desires
5. Be patient
6. Trust that Hashem will know when I am ready, and lets things progress accordingly
7. Lastly, be patient

Thanks
Eli

I can certainly reassure you fo this

MBJ wrote:


I was just there, as this is on the general forum I'll suffice to say that it doesn't help the slightest AND MAKES IT ONLY WORSE!!! I find that when my wife is available then I have "kosher" ways to act on the lust, whereas when she is not, then I know clearly that I must deal with it, and I cannot justify myslef by saying "well, it's not bad, it's muttar, and some rabbi's would even tell me that it's my right to do it".

I have found that I usually know when it is lust, and I justify acting out on it because the actual actions that I am taking are good actions. I am learning that "Rachmana Liba Buyeh" and that if it is lust that is behind it then it will just end up being one big mess!!

Thanks for letting me share that

this is true....we all remember the posts where I said that in recovery it is better for me in the assur days than the mutar ones. While I still agree with that and feel that, it is the learning how to tame the lust where the recovery steps take hold and root. We had one unbelievable night, but nothin' since then. I feel my body wantin', achin', desirn', and mostly it is for my wife, and then it spreads. when I can control it and give a gentle peck on the cheek, pat on the behind, three second massage on back in the kitchen, and then go on with life with my head held high and a smile on my face...it is then that I know that I am working the steps. Desires and urges run my life and there aint much I can do about it, but accepting that reality and knowin' that I can certainly live this moment without acting out on this desire, and that is what provides the strength for the next moment and for the one afterwards.

thank you

b'hatzlachah

I just saw an exchange on Yehoshua's thread between him and Dov, each saying that they are still sober.

I am also still sober, barely it seems, but still sober. The question that I am asking myself when I saw that was, yes I am sober, but do I want to be? I have learned and repeated many times that if you don't want to be sober and stay clean, no one else can do it for you. I want to fall, I really do. I am not at that point of actually falling because of the positive pressure of this wonderful place, and that entry on the Wall of Honor with my name on it and 162(ish) next to it. But there is much negative pressure from myself now and eventually it will overwhelm the positive pressure and I will fall.

My marriage is a huge frustration, I have seminal fluid leaking out when I go to the bathroom and my testicles hurt. I am lusting, looking for images on the computer that are inappropriate though not on the "fall" level. My hand travels below my waist way too often.

The other thing that I have going for me is that I know that if I do give in and masturbate it will probably hurt the first time, since it has been a while. I also KNOW that masturbating and looking at porn will not fix ANYTHING. I really do know these things. But as I just read in the Bog Book, knowing about my addiction, does not necessarily give me the power to do anything about it.

I also know that if I pop on a porn video, and masturbate until I orgasm, that it will feel so good. That I will, if only for a few minutes, experience the total oblivion of any other problems that I have. I can live in myself and ignore the rest of the world. I can make my bed in my fantasies, and sleep in it.

I can ask Hashem to take it away for now, I can us the phone a friend lifeline. But it will just come back. The truth is I don't want to fall now, the daytime is fine (though my testicles still hurt), it is the nighttime that I want it.

No, I need more. I had it, or at least a glimmer of it at various times, but I don't have it now, and now I am floundering, rambling, ranting here.

Thing is I think I know what I have to do, but I am too scared to do it. Hate admitting that part too.

Here's to not falling tonight.

Eli

I read your post several times; it is a tough situation you're going thru.
you seem to be handling it superbly.
I do not know about the pain down there, but I can relate to the impending fall.
I would be a hypocrite to offer any advice regarding this....so I won't.
We are here with you.
God is with you, as difficult as it may seem.

b'hatzlachah (with a tear down my cheek and a heavy heart)

MBJ wrote:


L'chaim to that, mate!

Thank you for sharing what's going on by you. Its encouraging to me and I'm sure to others.

I can only pray that what I say only helps and doesn't hurt.

I (and probably most of us here) know many of those feeling all to well. In particular I've been floundering and feeling frustrated, not with my marriage but with my lack of one. I'm still single and living at home in a small community with only a few singles and it has really be wearing on me recently.

My addiction provided the "perfect answer", "Just lust a little and watch porn and masturbate once and all will be well." We all know that it doesn't help but it sounds so good when we hear it, the first time, the second time, and every time. In the last 2 weeks I had the opportunity to again remind myself why I shouldn't listen to that voice. The reason why is because the word "once" isn't in the addicts dictionary and when it starts it doesn't end well or easily. And since I'm an addict I made a complete mess out of 2 weeks of my precious life.

So, take it from someone on the other side of the fence, "It doesn't pay to fall." No, I didn't mean myself. Why should you believe me, an anonymous poster on the internet? (Though I'd love to shmuz if you want to PM me and we'll trade numbers.) Rather, take it from yourself. Go back over your posts just prior and after your previous falls, and remind yourself why you are here and why you need to stay here. I wish I had done that last week.

Would it have help me? Will it help you? I don't know but we have only ourselves to blame if we don't try. And then after we've tried, we must turn to Hashem and beg him for help like a son begs his father with the full belief that he can help.

Hatzlacha and remember why you're here,
NeedToQuit

Hey Eli, thanks so much for doing what many do not: being clear, simple and honestly saying exactly what's going on. I think it is fantastic that you described the frustration you have with the seminal fluid coming out and the testicular pain, admitting that you want to act out your lust quite often, and that you feel really crappy about your situation in may ways.

Needtoquit is so right, of course. But I believe that your simple honesty is even more precious than just the fact that you are not masturbating, per se. And I applaud your selfish self-interest in not making things worse by having sex with yourself now. But please don't get me wrong - I am the last guy who will 'beg' you not to sin! Thankfully, I recognize that such things are all your issue and 100% on your shoulders, not mine. And I have painfully learned that were I to beg you to 'see the light and to not give in to your desires' (or addiction, if you really are an addict at all), is a dangerous place for me to be. It makes me dependent on your decision. Blechh. Feh.

Needtoquit meant good, healthy chizzuk, and said it so well! But I remember the days back on GYE when a guy would threaten that he would 'fall' and tons of begging posts would fly out. One guy I remember and came to know well afterward, admitted that he intentionally did it just for the joke of seeing people say things like, "Oy, it would hurt us so if you gave in and let us all down!," etc. Nu...he was a bit cruel and strange. But who isn't?

This chevra here on GYE is priceless.

But your marriage issue is really in need of more help. It's not wise for you to carry this the way you do. I have not read back deep into this thread and I know we have been here before. But do you think your communication between you and her can get some help? Do you see any way to get help yourself to give up whatever you cannot have better than you are, right now?

The painful testicles can be mended with Motrin, as many have found. And though you may have some pain without any lust whatsoever, we have discovered that they get terribly more painful as the result of any fantasizing, and from harboring the feeling of being entitled to what we believe 'everybody else gets' or is 'normal'. Avoiding any sexual thinking at all and getting help to surrender it, helps a lot. But it is a thing you need to want, not a thing I can or should judge is right or wrong.

You may be able to get more help to surrender (truly give up) the things that bring you the pain and the things that make it worse.

Who knows? I am not comparing myself to you, man. I can only assume that I'd completely fail where you are.

Hatzlocha getting more help, Eli.

Vow that is so true. I never even dared to say that loudly.

I don't know much. But being an addict is darn hard, who can ever live with an addict? Who wants to live with an addict? I think one could say, that something is wrong with our women! Why do they suffer our addiction, why don't they make an ultimatium!? If we really are addicts and really do get in that cycle, then sometimes we are very hard to be with. So why do they suffer us?

I am not saying we are bad or that are women are to blame... I am just honestly saying that our women need treatment too actually.

They are not addicts, but something crazy is going on in our women too. By this i don't want to put the blame on women. Cos talk about blame is displaced here, I just bring shame and leads nowhere. But what we need is 12 steps, and perhaps, just perhaps our women need it too.

Hope this makes some sense and could be usefull. Since I am having issues with my wife , lately I am so close from leaving (read divorce or read accidental suicide - to get the insurance...). Today I just had a sex dream with my wife. That is great, no? But actually I am not being there for her, darn that blame again.

All the best to you....

Guys I made a mess here... Help please...

Plenty spouses who are married to sexaholics get so upset and crazy from the pain, shame, and anger that they finally break thru their shame and decide to get real help from a therapist and many actually join a recovery fellowship called S-Anon, just like Al-Anon for spouses of alkies. Same deal.

Well, not plenty, but I have met hundreds...

But that is 100% their business. The first year I spent really dealing with my addiction in real recovery was accompanied by my stupid pushing of my wife to get herself help in such a group...boy was that a mistake! Finally, my sponsor suggested I shut up already, boruch Hashem.

My wife told me it took her about 10 years to get the resentment and ill-will (from my nagging) out of herself, till she was able to consider seeing what (if anything) S-Anon might offer her.

The only constructive things I ever did for our marriage were when I kept busy taking care of my own crap instead of hers. And it is still that way. And my wife is discovering the exact same holds true for her.

Yehoshua,
I don't really understand your post, but laying any blame on the women (if we indeed are addicts) is extremely counterproductive.

I had/have all sorts of taanos, but they are discarded along with the lust.

It's my job to fix my crap....and I told her that as well (although she does not know the extent of my issues).

Thanks

b'hatzlachah

I have been complaining and whining on my thread recently, so I will give some good news.

While I usually only update on Sunday's I couldn't help myself and I updated today.

Today I am at 190 days clean, passing my previous streak of 189 days. More exciting is I have now had 500 cumulative clean days since I started on GYE.

Once again thank you all for all your help and support.

Eli

Rock on yo!

Mazel Tov!! KUTGW!!!

It's amazing that Hashem can enable any addict to be sober for any period of time like 190 days! So true!

But you know I could not care less about the 190 days, 195 days or whatever you or I or anybody is 'up' to. The best day of all to be sober on is always and only going to be today, for me. I am very grateful for that. The futre and the past are always distracting...and they are also not the present reality.

Thank G-d you and I are sober today!

In fact, it is hard to find the time to be thankful for the days, months, years before today. I am (b"H) too busy being grateful for today and living it.