Welcome back! You did have us a bit worried... ???

Keep up the good attitude and KOMT!!

Suicide is spelled with a 'c' in the middle. Just thought you would want to know. The worst thing for me would be to go and write a suicide note, jump off the bridge, and then have my 9th grade English teacher Mrs Mayefsky holler at me on the way down, "Dov! You misspelled suicide!!"

Ahhh!!!!

I'd hate that.

:-*

- Dov

PS. You are a sweet guy, some_guy. Hatzlocha with your buddy today. To heck with yesterday and with tomorrow.

Reminds me...

Machshovo wrote on 19 Jun 2012 21:13:

Reminds me...
dov wrote on 23 Oct 2012 20:20:

Just a sort of funny thing in response to Dont Give Up's very sensible (and short!) post above.

I have a twice-weekly GYE phone call I moderate that goes through the steps in an al-derech-avodah manner, be"H. One of the stuffy requirements for participating is that real first names are used. Here are a few uncanny observations from ~ three years of these cycles:

Many guys know and are 100% OK with it and jump right in. And most of those lucky ones admit this was a difficult thing at first but that they feel the difference and how it obviously helps their entire honesty and recovery.

Some guys call in but only whisper or mumble their names...but soon get comfortable after they hear 'in person' real other frum guys being brave and open. They soon realize that the actual risk to their identity is very slim. As you pointed out, the problem is not the serious recovering perverts - it is all the sweet pervs out there who are not interested in taking any real steps toward recovery at all (they are 'still OK') and are just curious onlookers. ( :) The guys on the call are using their real voice - that alone is a sign that they believe they are in serious trouble. People who truly accept that they are in serious trouble are not interested in exposing their fellows as pervs - we are too busy saving our own lives! That's why in-person meetings are so much safer than phone calls: the degree of seriousness about our own trouble is there even more, so the idea of 'telling' on others feels so much the stupider.

Some guys are on GYE for a year or two - and start to participate in the call...but are very uncomfortable opening up about what their username is on GYE! It's Captain Kirk in the flesh! Think about it.

I have met with so may GYE guys over the years on the phone and in person, and every time it is a great thing for both parties' recovery. But the idea of using our 'real voice' is scary. Just scary. It's the Captain Kirk issue. Same for the real first name - same for admitting the username, too - all Captain Kirk. To know me for the details I want to tell you right now, that's OK...but to know the other me? Well, that's too much! And the idea of a person knowing all the 'me's'? Well, that's intolerable for many. So we run back to fantasy. It's so much safer.

Sure, they sometimes say "Well, Hashem knows all the me's, and I am not ashamed from Him!" - Heh. Really? Not so. Until we allow other people to see both of our personae, we probably cannot really accept on an emotional (ie, real) level that Hashem is aware of us. And this is what the Gemorah means when it says Rabban Yochanan ben Zakai was dying and blessed his talmidim (these were tanno'im!), "May your fear of Heaven come to equal your fear of people [watching you]." They were not impressed and told him so. He consoled them and said, "Teydah - know - a man does things and says in his heart, "as long as no man sees me"." 'Emunah' - even for the people of Rabban Yochanan ben Zakai's yeshivah - was not nearly enough to demonstrate honesty. We need people to bring us there. Eventually we may be able to start using our relationship with Hashem the same way, but that will surely take years - like everything else that's worthwhile. Till then, emunah is usually almost worthless in this regard. That's why there can be frum compulsive sex and porn users. Hey, the normals out there likely lack this 'level' of emunah too...but we are just the ones who get 'caught'. No, life is not fair. But maybe we are the lucky ones...?

Finally, yeah, klapping on the bimah "Welcome too all the guests davening with us this Shabbos. I use porn and masturbate almost every day and want very badly want to quit though it's been that way for about three years now....and don't forget to repeat Kriyas Sh'mah and the eruv is Kosher! Good Shabbos." - is not a very good idea. You are right! Often, other members of the family should not know, and certainly not strangers.

But 1) here we are on the forum. We are pretty much all fellow secret masturbaters and secretly desperate pornography searchers and users. We all want to quit, here. You know my deep inner concerns - my mind - better than most people I meet do...and you have never even seen me! And 2) A first name (as long as it is not something like "Chuna-Feitel Jr." is really not advertising who I am to the world. C'mon. And finally 3) it's fun to open up and be more ourselves. It's so important to have a safe place where we know we can always come and let our hair down. But G-d help us if we need to use artificial hair there, too!

You guys are so funny - and I am so serious today. Gevalt. If only Richard Pryor [olov he'ofor] videos were clean...they'd fix me up good.

Reb Dov you make it sound so easy, but opening up is not easy!

It may not be easy. But it can be worked on in steps and grades. First you can participate in a phone call like Duvid Chayims...just don;t use your fake name. No need to talk much, just say your real name and listen quietly if you like.

Then after a few times you can start to talk a bit about your 'opinion'.

Then after a few more calls you can start to say a few things about your experiences.

Then you can start sharing a few things about yourself.

Then you can make the makeh bepatish and tell the people on the call...."BTW, my real name really is what I told you (Chuna-Feitel Jr.) and I am Think Good on the forum.

Ooh...now after all that emess, that's a tough one. Connecting my two identities that you'all know into the one person they are! It's Captain Kirk all over again.

...Beam me up, quick, Scotty! There's too much intelligent life down here!

Mesilas Yeshorim loves this posuk. And it applies so well to this issue:

"Yacheid levavi lyir'ah Sh'mecha" Yichud halev includes honesty and oneness. Not having two personalities - the one I show you, and the one I hide from you. Boruch Hashem we have places like GYE where we can start this process!

I'm sorry for posting a bit unrelated but for the past two days, many of my friends statuses on gchat have been various variants of "ChunaFeitelism" [You guys are invited to share them all below, frankly I don't have the patience to type them out]. I have an issue with this because Dov, with all due respect I beg to differ. In fact I think this is a Passul Megilla...

Let me explain Dov, you and I met. I've met many others here and/or spoken on the phone.

I do not believe the GYE forum is recovery. Yes in recovery it's important to be real, but this isn't recovery. This is a heimish non-gebrochts Kennel for pet geshtaltzimfleegins named chuna feitel ^{[zemmy did I just quote you shelo b'shem omro again?]}, this is Bardsville's pub serving MADE AHEAD CHOLENT ALL WEEK HEH HEH [That was Khaleed, I would never type that, I was going to say Woodford].

THIS ISN"T REALVILLE. PERIOD.

In fact I once got close with a Newbie [big mistake, but he seemed like a really good guy] and shared personal information with him, and then he just upped and left.

Dov, out of all people, YOU know, that this isn't recovery. So why pretend it is?

What's the difference really, if people know me as Tanchum Zeeshe, Chuna Feitel or Tzuggs?

Ah, so if it isn't recovery, what's the point?

It's definitely a good place, with real names or without. I've met many good and solid friends here, who know my real name and many details in my life that many others do not and I remain.

TEEZEE [heh heh]

Geshmak city, man.

Today is day one.

Day one is the best day ever to be sober. Same every day.

Hatzlocha!!

dov wrote on 25 Oct 2012 16:27:


Loved this one I just put it on my signature Yitzchok

today is day one.

You got up. That makes Hashem smile.

There's no such thing as a TKO in this game. As long as you get up you still can win.

-Eli