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TOPIC: hello everybody! 106688 Views

Re: hello everybody! 12 Dec 2013 07:18 #224875

  • sib101854
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I agree that there are no simple answers. However, I firmly believe that a marriage has to be rooted in Emes Yesh Lo Raglayim and Sheker Ain Lo Raglayim. I think that this is such a fundamental Yesod of marital life that chasanim and kallos should have at least one discussion during their chasan and kallah classes about being emotionally intimate. I also think that when the stress of every day life drives a couple apart, therapy is a great way of of reassessing the pluses and minuses in a relationship rather than R"L reflexively thinking about ending a marriage. I appreciate that others may experience shock or worse from their spouse in discussing their addiction, but I think that the issue of emotional intimacy or the lack thereof cannot be dismissed as a factor that leads to addictions and addictive behavior.

Re: hello everybody! 12 Dec 2013 14:24 #224883

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I appreciate the importance of emotional itimacy. But I do not think that that must be done by me telling my wife that I am a lust addict and have watched other women get naked for me while she was working, trying to keep the house in order, and caring about me.

I BH have emotional intimacy without telling her that, just because I treat her like a human, it has nothing to do with her knowing anything. Emotional intimacy is exactly that, emotional, that the real me is there for the real her.

Secondly, I don't think that not telling her about this is "sheker". As long as I am not portraying to be something that I am not, it isn't sheker. I am a good guy, I am loving and caring for her. I can actually be those things because I am in recovery, but why does she need to know that? Where is there sheker?
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Re: hello everybody! 12 Dec 2013 22:34 #224906

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Today's Chizuk Email wrote:
Disclosure

A letter written by a husband to his wife about his addiction and his involvement in the 12-Step program.

Dearest Chani,

It is extremely difficult for me to write this to you. But it is harder not to. Lately I feel that my perceived dishonesty and hiding is creating tension in our marriage, sort of a rift between us, and rightly so. A good marriage must be built on a solid foundation of mutual honesty and trust.

You have a lot of questions. "The diligent scholar I married is wasting a lot of time on the phone with "friends" I never met, and am not quite sure where he met either. The same diligent scholar can spend hours chatting on the internet. Where did his diligence and intense studiousness go? I no longer sense a seriousness in learning, the only seriousness on his part is when he runs to drops me, our kids and anything else for an emergency "chabura" twice a week with those same friends. What's going on?"

Chani, believe me that you're the most important thing in my life. There is nothing in the world more important to me. I'll try to explain my predicament to the best of my ability, please don't make any rash decisions but try to trust me.

Let's discuss addiction for a minute, alchoholism, standard textbook case. Man drinks himself to death although he knows how unhealthy it is. What doctors have found in all such cases of completely illogical behavior is as follows. This man had a huge hole in his life, be it self esteem issues, pain of abuse, or a whole host of psychological impairments. This addict was walking around in pain, searing pain. Until the day he had his first drink. The drink numbed his senses, softened his mind, and wonder of wonders! He actually felt good!

His body decided that it wants to feel good at all costs, and so it drank whenever it had the opportunity. For an alcoholic; drinking is not a problem, it's the solution. The only treatment that has worked for thousands of alcoholics is the twelve step program of AA. This program does not address drinking at all. This program addresses spirituality. The concept behind the program is that addicts have a G-d sized hole in their hearts and minds. G-d is missing from their lives. The program brings them to spirituality and heals their character defects, making them satisfied with their lot to the point that: they don't need a drink!

As I've heard Rabbi AJ Twerski say many times, an alcoholic who had been sober for many years once got up at a meeting and said. "The man I once was, drank. The man I once was, would drink again. The man I am now by the grace of G-d, shall never drink".

Obviously for an alcoholic the biggest priority in life is getting sober, just like any sick man's priority in life is getting healthy. I know an alcoholic whose wife was opposed to his going to meetings twice a week, it interfered with her schedule. He told her "Do you want a sick husband 24/7? Or a sober one who is absent twice a week?"

And yes. An alcoholic who doesn't go to meetings is sick, even if he's not drunk! In the program we refer to him as a "Dry Drunk". Although he may not appear to be drunk, his heart and mind are not with him. Inside he's dwelling on the immense emotional pain he's in and how he can get his next fix.

Chani? Here comes the hard part... I may not be an alcoholic. But I'm an addict. When we met and married I was constantly in pain. I numbed it in my own way - On the internet. It's difficult to say this and I don't know how you'll take this, but by now all the frum publications have already written about the phenomenon of men being addicted to "objectionable material on the internet". That's me. I surfed, I fantasized, I chatted, and did all types of disgusting things.

And yes. I was disgusted with myself, which drove my self esteem even lower, which in turn pushed me to get more of my "alcohol". Ahh a never ending vicious cycle! Until I found a website called "Guard Your Eyes" or GYE for short. There I discovered that I'm not alone and met many other respectable frum jews that were working on this problem.

Together we formed our own twelve step group- "the chabura" that so perplexes you. So, there, that's the truth, and that's my story,

Your husband,
Moshe

Maybe it's a segulah for you.....
"ויעזור ויגן ויושיע לכל החוסים בו ונאמר אמן" -- ArtScroll Gabbai's Handbook

Re: hello everybody! 15 Dec 2013 17:02 #224997

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Who gave Guard permission to use my real name?!
I used "Harry" for a REASON
?דער באשעפער לאווט מיך אייביג. וויפיל לאוו איך עהם
My Creator loves me at all times. How great is my love for him?

Re: hello everybody! 16 Dec 2013 02:15 #225019

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Would not the above post be an example of what happens when a wife discovers the secret life of her husband?I wonder what is worse-an honest admission of an addiction or the discovery of the fact by a spouse?

Re: hello everybody! 16 Dec 2013 05:57 #225028

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tehillimzugger wrote:

P.S. I have a sim card with free unlimited internet. I am not going to use it, nor will I buy a machine which allows me to use it [smartphone/tablet] unless I go to the kosel and say a full sefer of tehillim [one of the five]. If I do buy it without having done as above I must go to the kosel within twelve hours and say the entire sefer tehillim.

for a TZ that doesn't seem to be much of a price to pay
on second thought in the snow and ice its not so poshut

Re: hello everybody! 16 Dec 2013 12:42 #225038

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SIB101854 wrote:
Would not the above post be an example of what happens when a wife discovers the secret life of her husband?I wonder what is worse-an honest admission of an addiction or the discovery of the fact by a spouse?


First off, let me clarify that I am not trying to say the you did something wrong. I am not in the position to say anything of the sort. The only thing that I am trying to say over and over is that there is no typical scenario, there is no one "example" of what will happen in a husband wife relationship.

It just so happens to be that I was just in a situation where my wife asked some questions. I called Duvid Chaim, as he has dealt with over 100 couples, and asked him if there are general rules when it comes to these things. He answered "YES!! There is one question you need to ask "Does my wife feel safe? Do I put her first?"

The answer for me was "no", I was putting GYE first, and she felt that and therefore didn't feel safe. I have since changed, BH, and we are as happy as can be. She trusts me and can sense that I am doing the right thing, so it doesn't bother her.

That is the only general rule that he gave me, anything else has so many details that could change the whole story. How long is the couple married? How is their relationship? What is the background of the two parties? How bad is the husbands problem?

Those are just examples of things that could change everything.

Every case is entirely different, every case needs to be thought through and should best be spoken over with a third party. There is no one that can know for sure what is the best way for someone else, even if a certain thing worked for them. All we can do is share experience, but to offer advice seems a little dangerous to me.
Yankel | My Ladder | Talking to Hashem
I'm just a dude, another guy on this bus.
Have a great day, unless, of course, you made other plans. ~ obbormottel
"Nothing changes as long as everything stays the same" ~ Dov

Re: hello everybody! 16 Dec 2013 21:42 #225053

  • ZemirosShabbos
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this thread is becoming a mini BB forum
Sometimes life is like tuna with not enough mayonaise
~Inna beshem ZS

Give, Forgive
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The reason I'm acting as if I'm pregnant, is because I'm expecting. I should be accepting.
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Re: hello everybody! 17 Dec 2013 06:47 #225126

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Ain Haci Nami.

Re: hello everybody! 17 Dec 2013 06:55 #225127

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Actually, sharing advice means pointing out that works for one person may or may not work for someone else, as well as sharing experiences. Yet, I would also maintain that every chasan and kallah , as part of their chasan and kallah classes, read some works by the many Torah observant mental health professionals on the issue of emotional intimacy.

Re: hello everybody! 17 Dec 2013 12:28 #225138

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I do agree to that, I'm sure it would help!!



I think this ends the mini BB thread, does it?
Yankel | My Ladder | Talking to Hashem
I'm just a dude, another guy on this bus.
Have a great day, unless, of course, you made other plans. ~ obbormottel
"Nothing changes as long as everything stays the same" ~ Dov

Re: hello everybody! 17 Dec 2013 14:10 #225149

  • TehillimZugger
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Hello everybody, to return to the subject of this thread [namely, ME!], sorry BBs. I wasn't feeling well on Sunday and Hashem was nice enough to provide me with something that would make me feel better, namely a computer with internet access. No filter. It was fun. I felt better. But then I felt worse. It was exacerbated by the fact that while there was no filter there was accountability software I didn't know about. And so now this guy knows EXACTLY what I was doing. Not geshmak. Not cool.
What am I doing? Turns out there are two parts to recovery. Recovery focuses mostly on the "underlying problems" of the addict, not so much on the "overlying" obvious problem, namely "acting out". Program Torah SheBaal Peh tells us that step 0 is "stopping". Indeed, as long as one is not stopped he is incapable of being honest and/or talking sense [check me out for instance].
In the Big Book Appendice, Personal Stories Part III They Lost Nearly All, Story 4 "Listening to the Wind", the author says, "At twenty-two months of sobriety, I was finally able to complete an honest inventory." That's just the way addicts are, we cannot be honest acting out. So, before we work on the inside we need to stop. STOP.
GYE has some good tips for that. The only one that has helped for me so far is the Taphsic. Problem, it is impossible to make an all encompassing Taphsic. See above where I made a Taphsic not to employ my sim card for internet, but what happens when someone else hands me his laptop? Enter my new plan: Taphsic for Taphsic.
The idea suggests that I make a Taphsic, that if a situation arises where a Taphsic is necessary, a Taphsic should immediately be implemented. I need help with the wording of the Taphsic, if anyone has any suggestions.
?דער באשעפער לאווט מיך אייביג. וויפיל לאוו איך עהם
My Creator loves me at all times. How great is my love for him?

Re: hello everybody! 17 Dec 2013 18:25 #225158

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kilochalu wrote:
tehillimzugger wrote:

P.S. I have a sim card with free unlimited internet. I am not going to use it, nor will I buy a machine which allows me to use it [smartphone/tablet] unless I go to the kosel and say a full sefer of tehillim [one of the five]. If I do buy it without having done as above I must go to the kosel within twelve hours and say the entire sefer tehillim.

for a TZ that doesn't seem to be much of a price to pay
on second thought in the snow and ice its not so poshut


KiLoChalu, I'm not such a TZ in real life, more like Rosh Kolel material [would Cordnoy dream of taking me as an eidem otherwise?!]
?דער באשעפער לאווט מיך אייביג. וויפיל לאוו איך עהם
My Creator loves me at all times. How great is my love for him?

Re: hello everybody! 17 Dec 2013 18:41 #225159

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you don't wanna know my dreams....
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Re: hello everybody! 17 Dec 2013 23:13 #225183

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thank you for your honesty Mr.TZ
and regards from the fleishig bagel guy
Sometimes life is like tuna with not enough mayonaise
~Inna beshem ZS

Give, Forgive
~Cordnoy

The reason I'm acting as if I'm pregnant, is because I'm expecting. I should be accepting.
~TZ
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